WHA resurrection

[Optimist*]

No harm in asking I suppose.

If it were me I would have opted to pocket the $1.3billion and let someone else ask the question.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Does the garbage man say...I clean up the trash to make everyone happy there streets dont smell of crap" No he saids he cleans up the trash to get his paycheck. Does the deli worker say..I do my job because I love to see the happy faces on the customers faces when they walk out with some meat? No..they do there job for the paycheck(though im sure people do there jobs for reasons like that...example a Police officer). You people find any little thing and jump down the players throat...funny how you didnt mention this line: " "People are dying to see some hockey in Canada." Right there hes talking about the fans..but you left that out. If your going to post something post ALL the facts not just the ones you want people to read. And BTW..even if he didnt say we want to put money back into the players and said..."We are doing this just for the fans...you would have jumped down his throat and said..BS! BS!" What a liar!...but when he tells the truth you still yell and scream. So sad.

Spare me.

I don't recall garbage men or deli workers working for "the love of their job" when they were young.

I'd rather him say "we're not doing it because we need the money, the fans deserve to see some stars".

the hockey's ain't gonna be that good anyways, just some boring exhibition games with no hitting, no blocking shots, no chippy play

 

[Drury_Sakic]

Anyone know if ESPN or some TV station is planing to air this(if it happens)...

Cause if not.. its rather pointless.. and might as well be a beer league game...

 

[me2]

Yes. They want to run the team, but not take responsibility for their own spending.

I think the lockout and the salary cap show the owner have accepted responsibility for their own spending.

Sure. They want a salary cap, but no salary floor.

They offered a cap and floor. Players said no.

Indeed. They all want the benefits of a thirty team league, but they don't want to meaningful revenue sharing.

What 30 team benefits? The owners could probably close 6 clubs and have more benefits. The 30 team benefits are all in the players favour.

I do agree there should be more revenue sharing.

Of course. They still want to run their own franchises and get those guaranteed profits.

what guaranteed profits?

 

[Mighty Duck]

Apples an oranges.

When i start buying tickets to support the garbage man, maybe he would say that. When im off to the store to buy my favorite deli server's 3rd Jersey, Then i bet he says that.

These players are paid by US. If we dont buy thier shat and goto thier games, they dont get paid. Hell, ill go off the deep end like you did, We as fans OWN the players. We pay thier salary. We do NOT goto games to watch people loaf around and then goto the media and say "we are just out here to collect a paycheck"

This sounds like your performance at work!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If the shoe fits, wear it>

 

[Weary]

I think the lockout and the salary cap show the owner have accepted responsibility for their own spending.

There is a difference between admitting a problem and accepting responsibility for it. The owners have admitted they have a problem. They want the responsbility for correcting it to fall upon the players.

What 30 team benefits? The owners could probably close 6 clubs and have more benefits. The 30 team benefits are all in the players favour.

The moneymaking teams would benefit from a smaller league. Those on the low end, however, profit from those other teams.

I do agree there should be more revenue sharing.

what guaranteed profits?

The whole idea of the cap is to keep player costs low enought that even the lowest revenue teams can make a profit.


The owners and the players are basically looking for the same things. Typical of negotiations. The real root of the problem is that the owners haven't solidified their own partnership. So Bettman is really negotiating with the players, the rich teams, the poor teams, and the in-between teams. Until those teams can have some sort of unified vision of what the league should be, I don't know how Bettman and Goodenow can reach an effective agreement.

 

[FLYLine27*]

Apples an oranges.

When i start buying tickets to support the garbage man, maybe he would say that. When im off to the store to buy my favorite deli server's 3rd Jersey, Then i bet he says that.

These players are paid by US. If we dont buy thier shat and goto thier games, they dont get paid. Hell, ill go off the deep end like you did, We as fans OWN the players. We pay thier salary. We do NOT goto games to watch people loaf around and then goto the media and say "we are just out here to collect a paycheck"

Im pretty sure our Taxes go to the garbage mans paycheck.

 

[FLYLine27*]

Last time I checked, the garbage man doesn't spout off about how he is the product, either. I've never heard the guy at the deli refer to himself as the product. I have however heard it said that the players are the product (which is not my opinion)

The players are the product...what do you pay tickets to see...the Zamboni?

 

[Bicycle Repairman]

So in the WHA, was the proposed salary cap 10 or 15 million??? I mean it's not 40-42.5 M like the NHL offered, but it's right up there... I can see why the PA and their LEADERS are thinking WHA... :lol

For the LAST TIME, the WHA does NOT have a salary cap. Ricky Smith has been quoted several times on this.

The reason is the absence of a Collective Bargaining Agreement with an applicable players union. To do so otherwise is against Canadian labour law. The WHA is based in Oakville Ontario.

 

[me2]

There is a difference between admitting a problem and accepting responsibility for it. The owners have admitted they have a problem.

The owners have admitted a problem, accepted responsibility and are now correcting it.

They want the responsbility for correcting it to fall upon the players.

The players aren't doing anything but taking money. How are the players correcting it? They aren't.

The owners are a fat guy with an admitted overeating problem.

The players are a McDonalds restaurant who milk the fat guy for all of his money and don't care about his health in doing so.

The fat guy finally does something about being obese and goes on a healthy diet and gets some exercise and less of his money goes to McDonalds.

Saying the responsbility for correcting it to falls upon the players is like saying the responsbility for correcting the fat guys diet is falling upon the McDonalds. Its does not. The owners, just like the fat guy are correcting themselves.

The whole idea of the cap is to keep player costs low enough that even the lowest revenue teams can make a profit.

Can make a profit, not will make a profit. Or at the least can be competitive on a lower budget. The NHLPA really has to decide if it wants 8-10 clubs to close and 30-40% of its workforce to get the sack. Even those that keep jobs won't noticably better off.

The owners and the players are basically looking for the same things. Typical of negotiations. The real root of the problem is that the owners haven't solidified their own partnership. So Bettman is really negotiating with the players, the rich teams, the poor teams, and the in-between teams. Until those teams can have some sort of unified vision of what the league should be, I don't know how Bettman and Goodenow can reach an effective agreement.

They seem unified enough to hold out as strongly as they have.

 

[txomisc]

The players are the product...what do you pay tickets to see...the Zamboni?

I pay tickets to see hockey. Do you pay for tickets to watch these guys sit around and pick their noses?

 

[Weary]

The players aren't doing anything but taking money. How are the players correcting it? They aren't.

The owners are a fat guy with an admitted overeating problem.

The players are a McDonalds restaurant who milk the fat guy for all of his money and don't care about his health in doing so.

The fat guy finally does something about being obese and goes on a healthy diet and gets some exercise and less of his money goes to McDonalds.

Saying the responsbility for correcting it to falls upon the players is like saying the responsbility for correcting the fat guys diet is falling upon the McDonalds. Its does not. The owners, just like the fat guy are correcting themselves.

If only the owners were going on a healthy diet and getting some exercise. But they aren't. As long as the McDonald's is open and selling the delicious food, they can't help themselves. They will go stuff their faces with no self control.

In order to correct this, they get a law passed. The law states that McDonald's can't serve fattening food any longer. Why? Because the fat guys can't help themselves. So in the end, McDonald's has to take responsibility for correcting the failures of the fat guys.

That's exactly what imposing a salary cap on the players does. It allows the owners to force someone else to take responsibility.

 

[me2]

If only the owners were going on a healthy diet and getting some exercise. But they aren't. As long as the McDonald's is open and selling the delicious food, they can't help themselves. They will go stuff their faces with no self control.

In order to correct this, they get a law passed. The law states that McDonald's can't serve fattening food any longer. Why? Because the fat guys can't help themselves. So in the end, McDonald's has to take responsibility for correcting the failures of the fat guys.

That's exactly what imposing a salary cap on the players does. It allows the owners to force someone else to take responsibility.

Not quite. The fatties have just put a ban on themselves overeating, but McDonalds can still sell all the crap food they want to anyone who is prepared to buy. The players can still get their $10m salaries anywhere they want except from the NHL owners.

 

[SedinFan*]

I'm pretty sure fans won't turn up on a regular basis, maybe the first game, but if they produce more crappy all star like games, then the building will be empty.

 

[Weary]

Not quite. The fatties have just put a ban on themselves overeating, but McDonalds can still sell all the crap food they want to anyone who is prepared to buy. The players can still get their $10m salaries anywhere they want except from the NHL owners.

A ban? Exactly. They didn't take responsibilty for their own actions. They implemented a ban so they don't have to.

 

[vadardog]

Weary what you don't understand is that NHL clubs only compete on the ice. They are not competing in business. The NHL essentially is one business not 30. People go to the games in their home town, its not like they are deciding weather to go to MacDonalds or Burger King down the block. Because of this the teams have different budgets. I kind of wish the owners would sell the entire NHL to one entity so that they could just call each franchise a branch of the business and tell each branch manager that they have 30 million to work with. Thats what most companies do. Then NHL teams could get back to competing fairly on the ice instead of stealing each others players.

An unrestricted free agent system could work if all the teams had the same revenue, but they don't. Now one could argue that the owners should revenue share, but why should they. The players argue on one hand that they should get a free system because we live in a capitalist society, but on the other hand they are suggesting that the way they get this benefit is by taking the owners capitalistic freedoms away. The owners have made vastly different investments and their franchises have vastly different values. Maybe the players should do some revenue sharing, at least they all are supposed to be trying equally hard.

By far the fairest system, and the one that would likely lead to the least amount of future conflicts, is a linkage system. Its more fair than even than a salary cap. If NHL revenues go up, player salaries go up. If they go down player salaries go down. How is that not fair. If this system was used the NHL would have a competitive league that they could work on expanding revenues which would benefit players. If the players get their way we will have a non competitive system in which rich teams canabilize the weaker ones and some teams will have to fold. This will eliminate jobs, and make the sport less popular across North America, blowing any chance at increased revenues (like maybe a decent TV deal).

 

[Scoogs]

This is stupid... I want to ask every NHLPA member who is currently backing this league, one question.

What did you dream of as a kid?

Winning the Stanley Cup in the NHL?

Or..

Winning the WHA championship.

 

[Bicycle Repairman]

This is stupid... I want to ask every NHLPA member who is currently backing this league, one question.

What did you dream of as a kid?

Winning the Stanley Cup in the NHL?

Or..

Winning the WHA championship.

There's no Stanley Cup this year. Didn't you hear?

And no, they aren't playing for the WHA Championship either.

I don't understand why everyone is hollerin' holy curses over a simple hockey tournament. How is the Bobby Hull Invitational any different than the Spengler Cup or the inaccurately-named World Championships?

This tournament and the proposed league are two seperate things. Should the WHA actually start up this fall, it's more likely to feature such HF heroes like Lonny Bohonos and Cory Hirsch (veteran North American pros finishing out their careers back home) than NHL All Stars.

The new WHA is more competition for the AHL than the NHL. It's a hybrid much like the old International League.

 

[me2]

A ban? Exactly. They didn't take responsibilty for their own actions. They implemented a ban so they don't have to.

A ban is taking responsibility for their own actions.

 

[Bicycle Repairman]

A ban is taking responsibility for their own actions.

Philosophy McNuggets.

 

[me2]

Philosophy McNuggets.

Anyone know what the current market value for players is? $50K-$500K. Goodenow is always going on about market value, yet he wouldn't accept current market value would he.

 

[Bicycle Repairman]

Anyone know what the current market value for players is? $50K-$500K. Goodenow is always going on about market value, yet he wouldn't accept current market value would he.

How much is that in Big Macs? :lol

 

[me2]

How much is that in Big Macs? :lol

Depends on the country.

http://www.economist.com/markets/bigmac/displayStory.cfm?story_id=3503641

 

[Crosbyfan]

The Fatties are being accused of dieting collusion. This may force them back to the "table" to eat in good faith.

 

[no13matssundin]

thanks JR, I knew it was always about money....

your willing to play in the WHA for less than you would in the NHL...hmm, no one said these players had to go to college!!

thanks, but no thanks.

If even 10% of the PA were college educated... 75 guys... we'd be watching hockey right now.

They teach you math in high school. But they teach you ECONOMICS in college.