WHA ramping things up - No Salary Cap

[labatt50]

[Now, to help prove the WHA is for real and create awareness, Smith says the league will host an invitational tournament that runs from May 19 to June 3. Some details remain to be finalized, but here is their big-picture vision:

Who will playing in this league, since the World Championships do not end until May 15?

 

[Buffaloed]

That 3.5 Bil number they are tossing around might go a long way ..

Plenty of good players to go around ..

I doubt if any of that $3.5 billion is available. That would be money put up by venture capitalists to buy the NHL. There's a huge difference between investing in a sure thing which the NHL is with a salary cap, and starting up a new league. That money isn't available without some serious strings attached.

 

[Hasbro]

I get a kick out of these guys who think they can just start a new league like they are going to open a conveinience store....

One difference from the 70's is wrena availability. It's not renting out a civic arena anymore, you're looking at a lot of privately held arenas, shared arenas and luxary boxes. Would anyone block out concert dates and car shows on an unsure operationlike this?

The original WHA ran into some problems like this particularly from the Toros having to rent from Ballard and the prohibative overhead in MSG.

For instance here in Denver I don't see where they could hold games. The Pepsi center is owned by Stan Kronke, no way in hell. DU's hockey director's wife and son work for the Avs, so forget that. The Coloseum is a dump and they'd get kicked out for the circus and the stock show (a major problem for the Rangers farm team here.)

It's been 20 years since a rival league made a dent in the sports market place. Look at the XFL 40 million in losses and they had a built in tv deal.

 

[dakota]

I hope they go through with this... then the NHL can really start in September there will be no barrier holding them back... this will be the best thing for everyone involved in my opinion the players will get what they want... and the owners will get what they want... it will a tough choice for some players to play for the Stanley Cup or for the WHA but it was done before and I look forward to this...

Go Canucks Go!

 

[dakota]

quick question... if there is a new league can the NHL not argue that this is a breech of contract and nullify the players contracts? I know it is a lockout so they probably cannot now... but what if the impasse goes through and the players in turn strike, could they not take their contracts to court? Im thinking Yashin maybe the islanders could take him to court if he is playing in Russia or the WHA? Just throwing out questions.

 

[Hasbro]

quick question... if there is a new league can the NHL not argue that this is a breech of contract and nullify the players contracts? I know it is a lockout so they probably cannot now... but what if the impasse goes through and the players in turn strike, could they not take their contracts to court? Im thinking Yashin maybe the islanders could take him to court if he is playing in Russia or the WHA? Just throwing out questions.

If Yashin wants to go to the WHA, I say let him.

 

[Buffaloed]

To which the NHL says fine, we'll break the NHLPA's back.

NHL pushes to use replacement players and any member of the NHLPA that want to sign (which plenty will). They then go head to head with the newly formed WHA.

They send word that anybody already under contract with an NHL team will be held to that contract (exclusivity).

Good luck with that new league!

That can't happen. Under an imposed "impasse" CBA the players are free to decide individually whether they'll accept it. Unless the CBA is ratified by the NHLPA, the players are free to play wherever they want.

 

[Buffaloed]

the existance of a competing league means antitrust laws no longer apply to the nhl. Collusion is no longer illegal. The nhl owners may feal that they can now institute their own cba and, if the players don't like it, they can go to a competing league.

The competing league would have to be on the same level or greater than the NHL. Microsoft is subject to antitrust laws and they have hundreds of competitors. The presence of a WHA also does nothing to change the NHL's obligation to bargain with the NHLPA. It's quite likely that the WHA players would also be unionized under the NHLPA.

 

[dakota]

That can't happen. Under an imposed "impasse" CBA the players are free to decide individually whether they'll accept it. Unless the CBA is ratified by the NHLPA, the players are free to play wherever they want.

so this means if Yashin plays in the WHA his contract is void? Ill bet some owners cant wait for this league to start if this is true... would the NHLP force or influence their members to play in this league? example: what would happen if Yashin could only make 5 million in the WHA... and as we know he would stand to make 9-10 million in NHL... would the NHLPA force him to work in the WHA? What if he wanted to work in the NHL because he is currently set to make more there?

 

[Marshall]

"Krusty is coming...Krusty is coming..."

 

[Buffaloed]

so this means if Yashin plays in the WHA his contract is void?

If there's an imposed "impasse" CBA, there would be a time frame during which players under contract could accept it, or their contracts would be void. It's likely there would also be a provision to void them if they went to play for any other league. An imposed CBA can also change the way old contracts are recognized. It may say that they're only going to be paid 50 cents on the dollar, and the player would have to decide whether to accept it.

Ill bet some owners cant wait for this league to start if this is true... would the NHLP force or influence their members to play in this league? example: what would happen if Yashin could only make 5 million in the WHA... and as we know he would stand to make 9-10 million in NHL... would the NHLPA force him to work in the WHA? What if he wanted to work in the NHL because he is currently set to make more there?

The NHL's best bet is to negotiate a CBA with the NHLPA that's acceptable to both parties. They could be tied up for years in court while a new league takes all their fans. They could be held liable for huge sums in damages if they're not playing on the level, which they've never been known to do. Personally, I think the NHL is dead unless they come to an agreement with the NHLPA and a new league(s) will take its place.

 

[Isles72]

I've never been to Ricoh Coliseum ....how many seats ?

 

[David Puddy]

Why not just call the new league the XHL to make it the complete farce that it is?

 

[CMUMike]

The plans for Year 1 remain consistent with what Smith told The Hockey News in November, with a few new wrinkles. The league, which has Hall-of-Famer Bobby Hull as its commissioner, plans to start with eight-to-10 teams in North America and says it is negotiating lease agreement deals with arenas, including some inhabited by NHL franchises.

8 to 10 teams? What happened to the brotherhood of 700+? By my count this league is a solution for the top 1/3 (maybe) of players and I use the term solution loosely. If this is the NHLPA's answer to end the lockout then we really know who the union is serving.

Also, to just assume that the league could start up and immediately pay JR 6M is quite a leap. Good luck finding television contracts, national and local, among other revenue streams to pay these guys. If it was only about filling buildings, the NHL would have no financial problems.

 

[txomisc]

The majority of fans with money will choose the better product. If the fans wanted to watch ECHL players, they'd be watching them right now.

Fans follow the best talent, not the richest owners.

You said fans follow the better product. The team name, logo, atmosphere of the nhl is part of the product. So the question is, is the NHL brand with players who you may have heard of but haven't seen in action a ton a better or worse product than players you have seen playing in an atmosphere with no brand recognition.
I highly doubt the WHA is going to start with all that many teams. Even if they started with 20 and somehow managed to get the best of the best to fill their roster spots, the NHL would still have very recognizeable faces and alot of young talent. So once again, is the potential to see those few top stars (who many fans are developing a negative attitude towards) a better product than seeing second tier stars backs by the team names and uniforms that we have grown to love.

 

[txomisc]

So doesn't the idea that someone can form a new league and manage to compete with the NHL fly in the face of the arguement that was made that if the NHL was owned by one group it would be a monopoly?

 

[YellHockey*]

fine, go watch the WHA, I personally would rather watch my Oilers play for the Stanley Cup, not a bunch of money hungry players playing for some meaningless trophy.

But the Oilers don't want to play for the Cup. For crybabies like Cal Nichols and Kevin Lowe a salary cap is more important then the Stanley Cup.

I'd rather watch a league were I'm not sure if the owners have a love for the game instead of the NHL where I know the owners all care about the money, not the game.

 

[thinkwild]

The XFL was the one operating with the replacement calibre players. If the XHL was the one with the top quality players, they would get a credibility.

Im a Sens fan. I would be really torn if all my favourite Sen players and NHL players were playing in a new startup league that was going to become the new elite level of competition for hockey in the world. It is the elite level of competition because all the current best players are there, and the current top prospects want to play the best in that league. So they get out clauses from their NHL team if a roster spot opens up in the elite league.

Both the new owners and players would be in competition with the NHL owners for rights to become the best league in the world, where all the best players want to play. It would be ironic if the best players played there for slightly less even, as well as the new billionaire owners writing off some startup costs, for the good of the worlds best new league. While scabs were playing for the money in the NHL.

If there's no team in Ottawa, I will be an unhappy Sens fan. I guess they are still my team. But they have lost a lot of cachet. And all the top players I follow in junior are going elsewhere. And all our old players are elsewhere. I dont know what I'd do. I'd be upset that I no longer had a team in the worlds best league. That can compete for the worlds best team. I guess I'll have the chance to find out what I'll do when that happens. Im not sure I really know right now.

Monitoring prospects would be trickier. Forget Meszaros and Eaves I guess, they are top league bound. Same for Spezza and Vermette I reckon. We'll have to start watching for leftovers.

 

[Mess]

The Same group that has offered to buy the NHL for 3.5 Billion, and failed has been in contact with the WHA and if they can't buy the NHL maybe they can make their own, just that its called the WHA ..

Some of us that are older have lived through the WHA days of the 1970's.. When the WHA lured the stars of the NHL Davey Keon, Gordie Howe, Jacques Plante, Bobby Hull, Frank Mahovlich, Gerry Cheevers, Paul Henderson etc etc away ..it became an instant big FAN success.. and when it secured wonder kid Gretzky (crosby in the fiture) ..It will have a strong following ..and then it started luring the best in the World as Anders hedberg and Ulf Nilsson joined the WHA ..

The WHA had so much influence on the Hockey nation that the NHL merged with the WHA as part of the agreement and the Winnipeg Jets, Edmonton Oilers, New England Whalers and the Quebec Nordiques became a part of the NHL, as they had to stop the bleeding that the WHA was causing. The NHL knew it had no choice as its watched its Franchise values get washed away by the loss of its stars ..

IF the WHA Part II steals away the stars of the NHL equal to the legends and HOFers that the former WHA did .. This time with the right $$$ backing it could be the WHA in the future that offers Ed Snider and other promonient big market NHL owners the opportunity to join the WHA ..

 

[Mess]

Martin St. Louis, the Tampa Bay Lightning star ​

​

The NHL's Scoring leader Joins the WHA Tourney​

As well, the new World Hockey Association has a tournament scheduled to run from May 19 to June 3. WHA president and chief executive officer Ricky Smith said yesterday that 87 NHL players have agreed to participate.
Heading the list, he said, is Martin St. Louis, the Tampa Bay Lightning star who won the NHL scoring championship in 2003-04 and was voted the leagues most valuable player.

"I'm looking at an e-mail from [St. Louis's agent]," Smith said. "And he says Martin wants to play."

Among those who have confirmed, he said, are NHLers Chris Chelios, Sean Burke, Mike Keane, Mark Recchi, Robert Esche and Andrew Raycroft.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050304.wxnhltour04fin/BNStory/Sports/

 

[SPARTAKUS*]

That can't happen. Under an imposed "impasse" CBA the players are free to decide individually whether they'll accept it. Unless the CBA is ratified by the NHLPA, the players are free to play wherever they want.

Don't forget if the NHL declares impasse the players will no longer be locked-out. So then the players goes on strike. So it is no longer a lockout but a players strike. So I doubt very much that the players would be allowed to play in Europe or in any other league for that matter. There'a a big difference between a lockout and a strike.

 

[me2]

It's been 20 years since a rival league made a dent in the sports market place. Look at the XFL 40 million in losses and they had a built in tv deal.

That is why the WHA doesn't remotely scare me.

1. if it succeeds it will need a very lower average salary
2. if it fails it loses tens of millions of dollars

If the the WHA looks like it could be a success the NHL just opens up again, crushes it, forces those who started to take millions of dollars in damages. Then it the NHL goes back to plan A, negotiate a deal with the players.

 

[txomisc]

Martin St. Louis, the Tampa Bay Lightning star ​

​

The NHL's Scoring leader Joins the WHA Tourney​

As well, the new World Hockey Association has a tournament scheduled to run from May 19 to June 3. WHA president and chief executive officer Ricky Smith said yesterday that 87 NHL players have agreed to participate.
Heading the list, he said, is Martin St. Louis, the Tampa Bay Lightning star who won the NHL scoring championship in 2003-04 and was voted the leagues most valuable player.

"I'm looking at an e-mail from [St. Louis's agent]," Smith said. "And he says Martin wants to play."

Among those who have confirmed, he said, are NHLers Chris Chelios, Sean Burke, Mike Keane, Mark Recchi, Robert Esche and Andrew Raycroft.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050304.wxnhltour04fin/BNStory/Sports/

i would assume there are very few players who would not want to play.

 

[Mess]

That is why the WHA doesn't remotely scare me.

1. if it succeeds it will need a very lower average salary
2. if it fails it loses tens of millions of dollars

If the the WHA looks like it could be a success the NHL just opens up again, crushes it, forces those who started to take millions of dollars in damages. Then it the NHL goes back to plan A, negotiate a deal with the players.

Your Plan is to Crush the Group (Bain Capital Partners and Game Plan International) that made an 3.5 Bil offer to Buy the NHL (now talking to the WHA) by opening up the NHL again with Replacement ECHL players .. ???

Good Luck with that.

 

[Phanuthier*]

So let me get this straight,

• The players, fresh off trying to break a 2.1 billion $ top hockey league into bankrupcy, go looking for new owners for their WHA. (After seeing the current state of the NHL, if I'm an investor, do I ever want to invest in a WHA hockey team!)
• The owners, trying to break the union, go to the AHL (and maybe Europe) to find replacement players.
• Us fans are left watching this great game of hockey get turned into a complete circus and the laughing stock of the sports world.