Werenski vs Provorov

Who do you take going forward?


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    226

mikeyp24

Registered User
Jun 28, 2014
5,959
1,231
It probably also has to do with Werenski being #5 in ice time among Blue Jackets defensemen tonight. Can you find an instance of the same for Provorov even once in his career? Good luck with that.

Provorov has had an overall very good season with a few stretches of substandard play. When that happens, the Flyers have nowhere to hide him, unlike the Blue Jackets with Werenski. I've also read a whole bunch of Blue Jackets fans concerned about Werenski's play this year and you've been silent after hijacking every thread about young defensemen into Werenski threads the past year before this season. Or do you still think Werenski is the superior defenseman in every way like you expounded upon regularly before the season started?
Werenski is hurt and needs surgery after the season but he's playing through it. But hey some guys can be 2nd in the league for D goals while missing like 10 games and playing hurt and contributing while others habe nowhere to hide as you put it nicely.
 

Winston Wolf

Registered User
May 15, 2003
12,089
6,690
Philadelphia
Werenski is hurt and needs surgery after the season but he's playing through it. But hey some guys can be 2nd in the league for D goals while missing like 10 games and playing hurt and contributing while others habe nowhere to hide as you put it nicely.
Hey, don't make excuses now!

I've never said a bad word about Werenski. You're the one who said (constantly, I might add) that Werenski was in another universe from Provorov.
 

mikeyp24

Registered User
Jun 28, 2014
5,959
1,231
Hey, don't make excuses now!

I've never said a bad word about Werenski. You're the one who said (constantly, I might add) that Werenski was in another universe from Provorov.
Better then never said another universe. But as you can see tonight even hurt he is the better player. In a serious way here and not blowing smoke up his ass Z has had maybe 1 or 2 games where he just misses coverages and guys open all night and was responsible for 2 goals or something single handedly but that's it. At most 2 games career. Now that's a whole 2 seasons so it's not a crazy assertion but he is just as consistant and sturdy as you are going to find. When he has played without Jones because injury he stepped up and was great. People were always bigger fans of Provy because he's a CHL guy and the Canadian fans for behind him and he was rated higher then Z who was American coming out of a very unpopular shitty college team in Michigan that I wouldn't pee on a fire anywhere on that campus to extinguish it. Werenski was actually thought possible to make it to COL that year because people thought if CBJ missed on the 1st 2 D don' waste the 8th go for Rants because Finland... So after we drafted him and we were stoked and Jarmo released a video stating we got our man and showing we didn't even want Provy we had Z and Hanifan tied and weren't willing to move up we wanted Z. So after that Philly fans bragged they had the better guy. The +1 year Z kills it in college leaves a little early going abiut a ppg I think 1 point shy but can' remember off the top of my head. He then wins best D at the WJC. Then goes the the AHL and takes a couple games to get used to the team before they head into the playoffs and gain chemistry with new partners. He then proceeds to break a like 100 year record of scoring for an 18yo or a rookie I forget which distinction of those 2 it was but for scoring in a playoffs. He lead that D to a title by assisting the gwg as time expired in IT. Bjorkstrand scored if you want to see the amazing goal and call for that it's REALLY good haha. Anyways after that he only comes in and takes over top pair and finishes 3rd in a Calder race with one of the best rookie classes in a quarter century. It was reported on NHL.com that statistically Werenski had the 5th best rookie season in the entire life span of the league. Better then guys like even like Orr. Again that was rookie year obviously not career but still. Someone just showed a list on the previous page for goals scored by the youngest D and you see Z was 5th most bases on age. Even missing a big chunk this year still broke the CBJ record for goals by a D in a season. Him and Jones are.both 2nd in the league with 14 behind 2 others. He doesn't have a ton of points this year because assists are down but read my opinions about assists especially secondaries I'm not a fan. Just goals because that is direct impact on winning and he has done that. But now that I literally gave you a career breakdown I wish I could give you stats like that for defense but they don't. But based on all those numbers like the advanced stats that guy posted page 2 I think Werenski was ahead in every catagory and had more points in less games. I don't want it to seem like I think Provy isn't a top 5 U21 D because he is I'd say Behind Z and right tied with McAvoy. Then Hanifan and Serg probably.
 

Sasso09

Registered User
Jan 2, 2009
12,409
1,892
Chicago
Better then never said another universe. But as you can see tonight even hurt he is the better player. In a serious way here and not blowing smoke up his ass Z has had maybe 1 or 2 games where he just misses coverages and guys open all night and was responsible for 2 goals or something single handedly but that's it. At most 2 games career. Now that's a whole 2 seasons so it's not a crazy assertion but he is just as consistant and sturdy as you are going to find. When he has played without Jones because injury he stepped up and was great. People were always bigger fans of Provy because he's a CHL guy and the Canadian fans for behind him and he was rated higher then Z who was American coming out of a very unpopular ****ty college team in Michigan that I wouldn't pee on a fire anywhere on that campus to extinguish it. Werenski was actually thought possible to make it to COL that year because people thought if CBJ missed on the 1st 2 D don' waste the 8th go for Rants because Finland... So after we drafted him and we were stoked and Jarmo released a video stating we got our man and showing we didn't even want Provy we had Z and Hanifan tied and weren't willing to move up we wanted Z. So after that Philly fans bragged they had the better guy. The +1 year Z kills it in college leaves a little early going abiut a ppg I think 1 point shy but can' remember off the top of my head. He then wins best D at the WJC. Then goes the the AHL and takes a couple games to get used to the team before they head into the playoffs and gain chemistry with new partners. He then proceeds to break a like 100 year record of scoring for an 18yo or a rookie I forget which distinction of those 2 it was but for scoring in a playoffs. He lead that D to a title by assisting the gwg as time expired in IT. Bjorkstrand scored if you want to see the amazing goal and call for that it's REALLY good haha. Anyways after that he only comes in and takes over top pair and finishes 3rd in a Calder race with one of the best rookie classes in a quarter century. It was reported on NHL.com that statistically Werenski had the 5th best rookie season in the entire life span of the league. Better then guys like even like Orr. Again that was rookie year obviously not career but still. Someone just showed a list on the previous page for goals scored by the youngest D and you see Z was 5th most bases on age. Even missing a big chunk this year still broke the CBJ record for goals by a D in a season. Him and Jones are.both 2nd in the league with 14 behind 2 others. He doesn't have a ton of points this year because assists are down but read my opinions about assists especially secondaries I'm not a fan. Just goals because that is direct impact on winning and he has done that. But now that I literally gave you a career breakdown I wish I could give you stats like that for defense but they don't. But based on all those numbers like the advanced stats that guy posted page 2 I think Werenski was ahead in every catagory and had more points in less games. I don't want it to seem like I think Provy isn't a top 5 U21 D because he is I'd say Behind Z and right tied with McAvoy. Then Hanifan and Serg probably.
TLDR
 
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MorgantiDrinksBlood

Registered User
Dec 26, 2011
2,934
3,068
Tokyo, Japan
I think Werenski is an incredible talent and I do think he’s going to be an elite D-man. Something about Provorov just screams the guy who you can lean on in his prime to put in monster minutes and be the #1 on a cup winning team, just my opinion. Both elite D-men. Just think Provy is a hair more valuable.
 

Dumais

It's All In The Reflexes
Jul 24, 2013
1,674
717
I think Werenski has elite offensive talent. Not sure if Provorov has elite defensive talent (don't watch him enough to make an informed opinion) but Werenski's defensive game is pretty good and will hopefully gets better...like his offense. Should be fun to follow their development but not really comparable players the more I think about them.
 

Sasso09

Registered User
Jan 2, 2009
12,409
1,892
Chicago
I think Werenski has elite offensive talent. Not sure if Provorov has elite defensive talent (don't watch him enough to make an informed opinion) but Werenski's defensive game is pretty good and will hopefully gets better...like his offense. Should be fun to follow their development but not really comparable players the more I think about them.
If Werenski is elite offensively, so is Provorov. Provorov is even better defensively
 

Kington91

Registered User
Apr 30, 2012
441
36
Grandview Heights
Better then never said another universe. But as you can see tonight even hurt he is the better player. In a serious way here and not blowing smoke up his ass Z has had maybe 1 or 2 games where he just misses coverages and guys open all night and was responsible for 2 goals or something single handedly but that's it. At most 2 games career. Now that's a whole 2 seasons so it's not a crazy assertion but he is just as consistant and sturdy as you are going to find. When he has played without Jones because injury he stepped up and was great. People were always bigger fans of Provy because he's a CHL guy and the Canadian fans for behind him and he was rated higher then Z who was American coming out of a very unpopular ****ty college team in Michigan that I wouldn't pee on a fire anywhere on that campus to extinguish it. Werenski was actually thought possible to make it to COL that year because people thought if CBJ missed on the 1st 2 D don' waste the 8th go for Rants because Finland... So after we drafted him and we were stoked and Jarmo released a video stating we got our man and showing we didn't even want Provy we had Z and Hanifan tied and weren't willing to move up we wanted Z. So after that Philly fans bragged they had the better guy. The +1 year Z kills it in college leaves a little early going abiut a ppg I think 1 point shy but can' remember off the top of my head. He then wins best D at the WJC. Then goes the the AHL and takes a couple games to get used to the team before they head into the playoffs and gain chemistry with new partners. He then proceeds to break a like 100 year record of scoring for an 18yo or a rookie I forget which distinction of those 2 it was but for scoring in a playoffs. He lead that D to a title by assisting the gwg as time expired in IT. Bjorkstrand scored if you want to see the amazing goal and call for that it's REALLY good haha. Anyways after that he only comes in and takes over top pair and finishes 3rd in a Calder race with one of the best rookie classes in a quarter century. It was reported on NHL.com that statistically Werenski had the 5th best rookie season in the entire life span of the league. Better then guys like even like Orr. Again that was rookie year obviously not career but still. Someone just showed a list on the previous page for goals scored by the youngest D and you see Z was 5th most bases on age. Even missing a big chunk this year still broke the CBJ record for goals by a D in a season. Him and Jones are.both 2nd in the league with 14 behind 2 others. He doesn't have a ton of points this year because assists are down but read my opinions about assists especially secondaries I'm not a fan. Just goals because that is direct impact on winning and he has done that. But now that I literally gave you a career breakdown I wish I could give you stats like that for defense but they don't. But based on all those numbers like the advanced stats that guy posted page 2 I think Werenski was ahead in every catagory and had more points in less games. I don't want it to seem like I think Provy isn't a top 5 U21 D because he is I'd say Behind Z and right tied with McAvoy. Then Hanifan and Serg probably.

Some good thoughts in here, but man you really need to use paragraphs / spacing. This was so hard to read.
 
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Bobby Orr's Knees

Registered User
Dec 17, 2002
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I agree with those who say that Werenski is an elite offensive talent. He is smooth, confident, and his vision is something special. He also has a great personality, and obvious leadership qualities. He reminds me of Brian Leetch in every aspect of his game.

I also agree with those who say that Provorov is a cornerstone D. It's hard to measure what he brings to the team. His focus and work ethic changed the locker room. Our young players, including Ghost and Nolan Patrick, undeniably look up to him. All he needs to do is stay healthy, and marry a good local girl so he stays in Philly forever. Who you pick depends solely on your team's needs. There is no "gap" between Zach and Ivan. They are simply different.
 

StoneHands

Registered User
Feb 26, 2013
6,608
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closing the gap.
provorov is only 13pts behind now with 9 extra games played!
I'll take the guy who's numbers are arching in the right direction. We saw this year what happens to Werenski when he's not scoring on the PP. Provorov had 1 less ES point last year and 9 more this season which is a large gap. Basically Werenski is better on the PP while Provorov has been better everywhere else.
 

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