Werenski Vs Ekblad Vs Provorov

best defender?

  • Werenski

    Votes: 74 47.4%
  • Ekblad

    Votes: 12 7.7%
  • Provorov

    Votes: 70 44.9%

  • Total voters
    156

FlyTimmo

pit <3
Jul 10, 2013
12,418
10,401
Werenski is good, Elite? not ready to say that. He is/was the 3rd best defenseman on his team in a perfect situation with easy minutes. he essentially had Ghosts role, just bigger with less offense/more defense.. not close to IP

Elite is an arbitrary term, it means different things to different people. I said, "will" implying he isn't quite there yet. But, he is close to being elite already. He has very good possession statistics and put up ~50 points as a 20 year old. Are his points inflated by exorbitant powerplay time for a 20 year old and 55% oZS? Yes. But, those numbers are rare. Plenty of young NHL defenseman are given similar opportunities and don't have the same production.

Werenski being a great young player doesn't make Provorov any less exceptional. Like I said, saying it is not close is nothing but ignorance.
 

sobrien

RAFFLCOPTER
Jul 19, 2009
8,948
127
South Jersey
You may be underrating Werenski. He is a very good defenseman. Saying that it isn't close is silly.

Sure, if Werenski was on Philadelphia and was paired with Andrew MacDonald and didn't get top PP time, he wouldn't be quite as highly regarded, but that is pure speculation.

I also prefer Provorov because he is the more well-rounded player, but Werenski will an elite defenseman.

That's how this poll should be gauged: "Who would play the best anchored to Andrew MacDonald for a season?"
 
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Monk

Registered User
Feb 5, 2008
7,496
5,393
That's how this poll should be gauged: "Who would play the best anchored to Andrew MacDonald for a season?"

So make our decision based off a situation in which we have evidence for only one of the three players? Don't see how that helps.
 

Cleatus

Registered User
Nov 21, 2008
3,934
1,645
Calgary, AB, CAN
Pretty close between Provolone and Werenski, but I pick Werenski by a tad.

Ekblad needs to start living up to the potential he showed in his rookie year.
 

Signupnow

Registered User
Oct 18, 2017
513
464
Werenski right now, but I still believe in Ekblad's potential he strikes me as a late(ish) bloomer particularly with his injuries.


Ekblads problem is that he was an early bloomer, he looked like 30 when he was 18. For this reason he has been overrated since the beginning as people were impressed about his rookie season as if it was any other kid. but this kid was a man.
 

Crede777

Deputized
Dec 16, 2009
14,611
4,124
IDK where the perception that Werenski has any flaws in his defensive game came from. I guess it's the traditional assumption that because he's good offensively, he must be poor defensively.

Same goes for Provorov and offense though.
 

Sasso09

Registered User
Jan 2, 2009
12,409
1,892
Chicago
IDK where the perception that Werenski has any flaws in his defensive game came from. I guess it's the traditional assumption that because he's good offensively, he must be poor defensively.

Same goes for Provorov and offense though.
his Defense isn't bad for how young a defender he is.... just isn't close to Provorov
 

mikeyp24

Registered User
Jun 28, 2014
5,959
1,231
I'm pretty sure 95% of the people in here talking about Werenskis defense have not watched more then 10 games total and not in a row to see how consistant he is. He was named best D of the WJC and captained that USA team. He then went on to lead the big 10s D in scoring. After his sophomore year at 18 he joined the AHL playoffs and a record for defensive scoring that was pretty old. Then joined the CBJ and was a Calder finalist and according to a NHL.com article had the 5th best rookie season for a defender of all time ahead of guys like Orr, Lindstom, and Karlson. Werenski has great offense yes but that's only so much of his game. The man reads plays extremely well and cuts off passing lanes better then some 30yo veteran shut down guys. He always takes away the shooting lanes and isn't afraid to block shots. He is as tough as it comes taking a puck to the face and then re-entering the game basically going blind in 1 eye due to swelling before he pulled himself not because of pain but because his vision he couldn't guarantee he would be a help out there. And I would put Z's stick work up against ANY defenders in the world. That guy can disrupt shit for days. He constantly breaks up centering feeds or breakout passes that could easily lead to a goal but his hand eye coordination is beyond Elite. I saw it the first game I watched of his at MICH and saw it at a whole nother level at the WJC. No defender his age can defend with his stick the way Z does. His vision/IQ/offense/defense are all elite.

It's funny how even though he outplayed every D in his draft at every level he can't get the respect he deserves over guys with draft pedigree and name recognition and because he plays in Columbus and not Phily. Nothing against Prov but he has shown the least out of the big 3 defenders that draft and out of these guys here. He might 1 day surpass the other 2 hell Ekblad as soon as this year but play wise he hasn't sniffed Zachs level yet.
 

Sasso09

Registered User
Jan 2, 2009
12,409
1,892
Chicago
I'm pretty sure 95% of the people in here talking about Werenskis defense have not watched more then 10 games total and not in a row to see how consistant he is. He was named best D of the WJC and captained that USA team. He then went on to lead the big 10s D in scoring. After his sophomore year at 18 he joined the AHL playoffs and a record for defensive scoring that was pretty old. Then joined the CBJ and was a Calder finalist and according to a NHL.com article had the 5th best rookie season for a defender of all time ahead of guys like Orr, Lindstom, and Karlson. Werenski has great offense yes but that's only so much of his game. The man reads plays extremely well and cuts off passing lanes better then some 30yo veteran shut down guys. He always takes away the shooting lanes and isn't afraid to block shots. He is as tough as it comes taking a puck to the face and then re-entering the game basically going blind in 1 eye due to swelling before he pulled himself not because of pain but because his vision he couldn't guarantee he would be a help out there. And I would put Z's stick work up against ANY defenders in the world. That guy can disrupt **** for days. He constantly breaks up centering feeds or breakout passes that could easily lead to a goal but his hand eye coordination is beyond Elite. I saw it the first game I watched of his at MICH and saw it at a whole nother level at the WJC. No defender his age can defend with his stick the way Z does. His vision/IQ/offense/defense are all elite.

It's funny how even though he outplayed every D in his draft at every level he can't get the respect he deserves over guys with draft pedigree and name recognition and because he plays in Columbus and not Phily. Nothing against Prov but he has shown the least out of the big 3 defenders that draft and out of these guys here. He might 1 day surpass the other 2 hell Ekblad as soon as this year but play wise he hasn't sniffed Zachs level yet.
lolwut?

#1 Provorov out performed Werenski pre-NHL which is why he was consensus ranked higher however slight
#2 Provorov was better in that tournament, I watched every game Werenski got the NOD due to team doing better
#3 Provorov has been better in the NHL in every category but powerplay. MUCH better defense, better ES scoring.
#4 Ekblad is nowhere near either right now

You can talk about how good Werenski is defensively but youre proven wrong. He has never been relied on to do heavy lifting and has sheltered minutes. Provorov has much better defensive stats with much harder minutes and much worse partner. Theres no debate whos better defensively.
 

mikeyp24

Registered User
Jun 28, 2014
5,959
1,231
So I say Werenski did better pre NHL (WJC best defender, broke scoring record in AHL playoffs, won championship) and you say no because... You just disagree.

I say he did better in the WJC which was proven because he won the best defender but you say no because... You watched and disagree. (Also the player the year before that won had 0 points and played for Russia, has nothing to do with scoring or team bias).

I say he was better in the NHL because he was 3rd in Calder and had what the league considered the 5th best season for a rookie defenseman ever but you say no because... He played on the power play and you disagree...
 
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jaric1862

Registered User
Jan 14, 2014
4,000
1,753
I think Provorov is better than Werenski. People would really notice how good provorov is if he was paired with a guy like Seth Jones and played with his teams top players on the PP
 
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mikeyp24

Registered User
Jun 28, 2014
5,959
1,231
Does anyone have some advanced stats of these players? Ideally not HERO charts!
I'm not a big fan of advanced stats. I honestly don't even know what some of them mean. I understand completely why they are important in sports like baseball where 1 player can be responsible for majority of production and wins but hockey is such a team oriented game that advanced stats is more of a tool to skew arguments in a direction rather then actually show a players real ability. Some players are extremely effective and drive play but the numbers would show them as a black hole.

Like somehow people were able to change the actual fact that Murray played top pair his 1st few years to being like a 4 or 5 even though watching the game you KNOW he was a #2.

Unless you are putting gameplay with the stats the stats mean absolutely nothing. Hell I'd even take +/- over some of the advanced stuff. Take JJ/Savard last year. They never played PP but were heavily used on the PK which is why some don't like +/- because numbers can be inflated through PP or deflated through PK but even though playing that style normally has an adverse effect on the numbers they were towards the top of the league in +/- at like +30. So imo that +30 with no PP and heavy PK means more to me then any corsi.
 

whitstifier

Honor Black Excellence in Hockey
Mar 19, 2013
5,826
1,363
I'm not a big fan of advanced stats. I honestly don't even know what some of them mean. I understand completely why they are important in sports like baseball where 1 player can be responsible for majority of production and wins but hockey is such a team oriented game that advanced stats is more of a tool to skew arguments in a direction rather then actually show a players real ability. Some players are extremely effective and drive play but the numbers would show them as a black hole.

Like somehow people were able to change the actual fact that Murray played top pair his 1st few years to being like a 4 or 5 even though watching the game you KNOW he was a #2.

Unless you are putting gameplay with the stats the stats mean absolutely nothing. Hell I'd even take +/- over some of the advanced stuff. Take JJ/Savard last year. They never played PP but were heavily used on the PK which is why some don't like +/- because numbers can be inflated through PP or deflated through PK but even though playing that style normally has an adverse effect on the numbers they were towards the top of the league in +/- at like +30. So imo that +30 with no PP and heavy PK means more to me then any corsi.

Contradictory argument.

You know how game score is measured?

Seems like you'd prefer Provorov over Werenski if he were with Columbus instead of the Flyers
 

mikeyp24

Registered User
Jun 28, 2014
5,959
1,231
I have no idea what game score even is. And I would prefer no D in the league over Werenski the only flaw he has is he played college hockey for the state up north. But you could offer me any D in the league and I would decline because Werenski is the complete package of elite offense and defense and he is only 20. So a Karlson or Doughty or whoever would be a no for me because Z will be that only he's already here and younger.
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,751
86,035
Nova Scotia
And good for you. Looking at the poll, you are not alone. But also looking at the poll, you are not necessarily right.

Provy produced as well as Werenski at ES last year.
Provy lugs around AMac whereas Werenski gets Jones.
Werenski produces more on the #1 PP than Provy on the #2 unit.

If I need to shut someone down or need a Dman for the last minute to hold a lead, I pick Provy easily.
If I need to kill a penalty, Provy is the obvious choice.
If I need a goal at ES, it's a coin flip.
If I need a PP goal, I go with Werenski...unless I can take Ghost instead.

Provy will never likely put up the points Werenski will because of Ghost. And that's ok. Provy is needed too much defensively and on the PK.
 

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