Were you wondering just how bad our defense really is?

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Our D is astronomically bad. Last year I think only NJ had a worse D than us. We are 31 out of 31 right now. Ottawa has bad D, but they still have Karlsson.

Green: At this point he would be a perfect 2nd pair, PP specialist. I like Green, never had many complaints. He is a good player on a terrible team. Bring on a 1st rounder at the deadline and go win a Cup.

Dekeyser: Being paid like a #1-2, in reality he's a good #4. One of the worst contracts in the NHL. I like him, but Kenny is forcing me to hate him based on the amount he is paying him.

Daley: Underwhelming. He looked good on good teams, and now looks bad on a bad team. He must be regretting his choice already. I wonder is he is tradeable? His contract isn't awful, but 2 more years and his rough play will probably scare teams away. (Holland!)

Ericsson: Has actually been better this year than in previous years, however he is still prone to boneahead turnovers that directly results in goals for the opposition. At least Big E tries hard and competes most nights, he is just lacking skills and footspeed. Would be a good 3rd pair guy right now, but 4.25 is a terrible contract. (Holland!)

Kronwall: Please retire after this year. I appreciate your services, you were a great player in your day and were a big part of the 2008 Stanley Cup win. Please retire though, you don't have it anymore.

Jensen & Ouellet: They are your average 3rd pair/ 7th Defencemen. If you could somehow combine these 2 guys into 1 player, we'd have a pretty good Defenceman, but overall at the individual level they are nothing special.

1. Agree with you, though if Green wants to come back I don't think we hesitate. Our Defence next year without Green? Oh God

2. Agree 250 percent with you... One of my favorite Holland/Blash quotes it goes something like this. " Danny is one of the best d men in the league at the centre ice back to the d zone. We think he has one of the best sticks in the league"

3. Agree, although I don't mind the addition. What did we expect? Duncan Keith?

4. Agree completely. He's starting to remind me of Dan Cleary the way he's loosing his foot speed. He's always reminding me of Brendan Smith in the sense of turnovers. How many years does this clown have left??

5. Have to disagree completely. Kronwall is still a serviceable player in the right role. Watching him live you can tell he still has it. He also has it in the locker room. We need guys like that. Who are we going to replace him with? Hicketts? Who cares. Shiny new toys are nice. Kronwall should stay.

6. Jensen is a decent NHL defensemen, what took the guy so long to get here? Ouellet is just another player destined to finish his career over seas.
Does anyone else remember when Blash was the coach of GR and said he believes we have a few top 4 solid NHL D men in Oullete, Marchenko, Backman ???

 

[RedWingzz]

1. Agree with you, though if Green wants to come back I don't think we hesitate. Our Defence next year without Green? Oh God

2. Agree 250 percent with you... One of my favorite Holland/Blash quotes it goes something like this. " Danny is one of the best d men in the league at the centre ice back to the d zone. We think he has one of the best sticks in the league"

3. Agree, although I don't mind the addition. What did we expect? Duncan Keith?

4. Agree completely. He's starting to remind me of Dan Cleary the way he's loosing his foot speed. He's always reminding me of Brendan Smith in the sense of turnovers. How many years does this clown have left??

5. Have to disagree completely. Kronwall is still a serviceable player in the right role. Watching him live you can tell he still has it. He also has it in the locker room. We need guys like that. Who are we going to replace him with? Hicketts? Who cares. Shiny new toys are nice. Kronwall should stay.

6. Jensen is a decent NHL defensemen, what took the guy so long to get here? Ouellet is just another player destined to finish his career over seas.
Does anyone else remember when Blash was the coach of GR and said he believes we have a few top 4 solid NHL D men in Oullete, Marchenko, Backman ???

We need to trade Green for a 1st at the deadline. It's a deep draft, so even if it's pick 25 or lower, that should translate into a serviceable player. If we suck this year, and suck even more next year, that's a good way to fast-track the rebuild. If we can get Boqvist this year and Jack Hughes next, we will have solid young pieces moving forward.

Our D without Green is a nightmare, but we need to be bad again next year, and than after that let's start the climb with (2017 1st rounder, Boqvist/Q.Hughes/), (2017 1st rounder we get for Green) (2018 1st rounder, J.Hughes?) (2018 1st rounder we get for Nyquist), Rasmussen, Svechnikov, Hronek, Cholowski.

We'd have 7 or 8 solid young players ready to right the ship along with Mantha, Larkin, AA (assuming he's still around) all in their prime.

 

[Redder Winger]

hogwash.

Right.
Washington just moved on from him because he was such a great value.

He was the #5 D in Washington (in terms of icetime).
He's settled into a 35-point pp specialist role.
He's a defensive liability. And nobody in their right mind would dispute it.

 

[jkutswings]

Right.
Washington just moved on from him because he was such a great value.

He was the #5 D in Washington (in terms of icetime).
He's settled into a 35-point pp specialist role.
He's a defensive liability. And nobody in their right mind would dispute it.

Then let's hope Detroit finds somebody who is out of their mind, with a first round pick to spare.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Does anyone else remember when Blash was the coach of GR and said he believes we have a few top 4 solid NHL D men in Oullete, Marchenko, Backman ???

Blash has absolutely no idea about anything regarding defense. He's never developed one in Detroit/GR and he was playing Jakub Kindl heavy minutes early on. So I wouldn't take anything he says regarding defense seriously.

 

[Frk It]

Right.
Washington just moved on from him because he was such a great value.

He was the #5 D in Washington (in terms of icetime).
He's settled into a 35-point pp specialist role.
He's a defensive liability. And nobody in their right mind would dispute it.

Yeah, I'll dispute that. He's not any worse in the defensive end than anyone else on this team, while being 100x better offensively.

Also when you have the puck more, you defend less, and that typically happens when Green is on the ice relative to the other guys on this team.

That #5D in Washington was a terrible coaching choice, too. Also their blueline was very deep.

Put our 6 defenseman on the trade block and see what happens. Green is going to get a first. Daley might get a mid rounder. Everyone else you could waive and no one would pick them up for free.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

The scary thing is Holland wanted to resign Smith, and there were posters here who somehow were open to or for the idea. It’s actually amazing how bad this team could be if some free agents didn’t say no to us.

As for the people saying Mike Green is a bust, he’s actually been our best defenseman since 2013, Kronwall’s last truly good year. He is not a number one d man, but he is miles better than anyone else we have, and by a huge margin. Hilariously enough, big E is probably our second

Blashills system always involved activating the D and getting them really involved in offense. Honestly must suck for him to have the worst defense corps in the entire league with that system lol

I think his system actually makea some of our D look worse than they are.

Dekeyser went from a solid top 4 guy to hot garbage the minute Blash came in.

 

[Wingsfan 4 life]

Little disappointed.

I thought this thread was gonna be about how bad our D is in their own end as apposed to how little our D contibutes offensely.

I know one ties into the other, but I was expecting to see some horrible shot suppresion stats or something along those lines.

 

[Redder Winger]

Yeah, I'll dispute that. He's not any worse in the defensive end than anyone else on this team, while being 100x better offensively.

Also when you have the puck more, you defend less, and that typically happens when Green is on the ice relative to the other guys on this team.

That #5D in Washington was a terrible coaching choice, too. Also their blueline was very deep.

Put our 6 defenseman on the trade block and see what happens. Green is going to get a first. Daley might get a mid rounder. Everyone else you could waive and no one would pick them up for free.

He's definitely worse than other guys on this team - and that's saying a lot.

Green is shitty defensively. He's shitty with the puck in his own zone.
He constantly makes terrible choices.

FOr all the talk about his offense, he's got two more even strength points that Ericsson and Jensen and just three more than Ouellet.

You say that when he have the puck more, we defend less.
Well Green has the third worst CF% on the team.
Even though he has the second easiest deployments on the team.

He's f***ing sheltered, and he has a bad CF and barely outproduces Xavier f***ing Ouellet.

And yet this $6M/Y veteran constant costs this team goals against.

He's a poor man's Shattenkirk.
Might he get a first round pick? I hope so. But I won't be surprised if it's a 2nd and 4th or something.

 

[Frk It]

He's definitely worse than other guys on this team - and that's saying a lot.

Green is ****ty defensively. He's ****ty with the puck in his own zone.
He constantly makes terrible choices.

FOr all the talk about his offense, he's got two more even strength points that Ericsson and Jensen and just three more than Ouellet.

You say that when he have the puck more, we defend less.
Well Green has the third worst CF% on the team.
Even though he has the second easiest deployments on the team.

He's ****ing sheltered, and he has a bad CF and barely outproduces Xavier ****ing Ouellet.

And yet this $6M/Y veteran constant costs this team goals against.

He's a poor man's Shattenkirk.
Might he get a first round pick? I hope so. But I won't be surprised if it's a 2nd and 4th or something.

Mike Green has 9 ES pts. Which is the same amount as Brent Burns, btw. Ouellet only has 4 pts on the season, total. So might want to check your math.

Also Mike Green has the best GA/60 of any defenseman on the team. Not bad for a guy who leads this team in ice time and supposedly "cant defend".

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

This is the type of stuff I love to hate to see. Confirming what we already know, but wowza.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Mike Green has 9 ES pts. Which is the same amount as Brent Burns, btw. Ouellet only has 4 pts on the season, total. So might want to check your math.

Also Mike Green has the best GA/60 of any defenseman on the team. Not bad for a guy who leads this team in ice time and supposedly "cant defend".

I've never understood the fascination with Ouellett. Nothing about his game translated to the NHL. Green is a solid point producer and should return a late first. My big concern is Holland will sign Smith to a new crippling contact because he's gonna be key to trying to make the playoffs over the next X years of his new deal. It would obviously be more of the same.

 

[HIFE]

...I think his system actually makes some of our D look worse than they are.

Dekeyser went from a solid top 4 guy to hot garbage the minute Blash came in.

I never thought about that correlation before, interesting.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Dekeyser is the worst dmen in his salary range in the league

The rest is a collection of bums

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Mike Green has 9 ES pts. Which is the same amount as Brent Burns, btw. Ouellet only has 4 pts on the season, total. So might want to check your math.

Also Mike Green has the best GA/60 of any defenseman on the team. Not bad for a guy who leads this team in ice time and supposedly "cant defend".

He is also 2nd on hits, 2nd on takeaway/giveaway ratio. 2nd on defensive point shares 3rd on blocked shots. 1st in takeaways

For defenders on the team that is

 

[Redder Winger]

Mike Green has 9 ES pts. Which is the same amount as Brent Burns, btw. Ouellet only has 4 pts on the season, total. So might want to check your math.

Also Mike Green has the best GA/60 of any defenseman on the team. Not bad for a guy who leads this team in ice time and supposedly "cant defend".

According to Corsica, he has 7 5 on 5 points.
Ouellet has 4.

Green has the 2nd easiest zone deployments on the team. He should have among the lowest GA/60

 

[Frk It]

According to Corsica, he has 7 5 on 5 points.
Ouellet has 4.

Green has the 2nd easiest zone deployments on the team. He should have among the lowest GA/60

Well, Green has 9 pts on the PP... so maybe they don’t count overtime where it’s 3 on 3? Not sure.

But he has 9 pts on the power play, and 9 points not on the power play.

As for “deployment”, if you are basing that off zone starts, I’ve seen a lot of data that suggests that’s pretty meaningless. Guy plays the most minutes on the team. He’s not sheltered.

Beware of What Zone Starts are Telling You, Part II: Shot Metrics - NHL Numbers

 

[Redder Winger]

Well, Green has 9 pts on the PP... so maybe they don’t count overtime where it’s 3 on 3? Not sure.

But he has 9 pts on the power play, and 9 points not on the power play.

As for “deployment”, if you are basing that off zone starts, I’ve seen a lot of data that suggests that’s pretty meaningless. Guy plays the most minutes on the team. He’s not sheltered.

Beware of What Zone Starts are Telling You, Part II: Shot Metrics - NHL Numbers

He's been sheltered since he's been in Detroit.
He's not trusted with Dzone minutes.

If we get a first, great. But I'm not crossing my fingers.
Anyone who watches this guy knows he costs you as many goals as he brings.

 

[Frk It]

He's been sheltered since he's been in Detroit.
He's not trusted with Dzone minutes.

If we get a first, great. But I'm not crossing my fingers.
Anyone who watches this guy knows he costs you as many goals as he brings.

Ok well I stand by my original point, and the data supports it. So guess we’ll agree to disagree.

Moot point, he’s probably gone in a few months anyways. I do think he’ll bring a first, we will see.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

According to Corsica, he has 7 5 on 5 points.
Ouellet has 4.

Green has the 2nd easiest zone deployments on the team. He should have among the lowest GA/60

What year is that Corsica? Cause 96 doesn't know hockey, like at all.

 

[Dotter]

Right.
Washington just moved on from him because he was such a great value.

He was the #5 D in Washington (in terms of icetime).
He's settled into a 35-point pp specialist role.
He's a defensive liability. And nobody in their right mind would dispute it.

Wow, Wings would be lucky to get a 5th for him, huh? So if Ken Holland gets a 3rd will you post here to say how great of a job Kenny did and give him his rightful kudos?

 

[Winger98]

The scary thing is Holland wanted to resign Smith, and there were posters here who somehow were open to or for the idea. It’s actually amazing how bad this team could be if some free agents didn’t say no to us.

As for the people saying Mike Green is a bust, he’s actually been our best defenseman since 2013, Kronwall’s last truly good year. He is not a number one d man, but he is miles better than anyone else we have, and by a huge margin. Hilariously enough, big E is probably our second

what's scarier is the guy we replaced him with has worse numbers. While I don't want to be paying Smith $4m a year just as I don't want to be paying Daley $3m, Smith is probably an upgrade.

 

[TheOtherOne]

Eh, i haven't paid attention to Smith since he left, but based on the last i saw of him he could easily be our #2 right now.

Which is not saying much at all, of course.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Smith was better then Daley in the dzone when we signed him. Not sure if he is now. Probably is. But we signed Daley for extra scoring. Not for defense. And he’s just been average in the dzone really

 

[BinCookin]

Smith was horrible for us. I don't care what he has done in NYR. Our team is improved by his absence.

Accorrding to my stats smith was worse than Marchenko / XO and Sproul last year.