GDT: [Welcome Home Jarome] December 10th - Bruins @ Flames [7:30pm on TSN]

[nfld77]

Awesome salute Flame fans gave Iggy. The city of Boston Salute Calgary fans. Losing a player like Iggy, well we know the feeling. When Bruin's traded Bourque to Colorado, I felt like something was stolen from me. Being such a passionate fan, you get so involved in the game, your team and especially it's players, it really hurts when you lose such a big part of it. Again that was so classy of Calgary fans!! Best in the West! Best of Luck to the young Flames team and all the very best to you the fans and your families.

 

[Anglesmith]

I, too, want to point fingers on our collapse, but the fact is, we didn't do the things in the third that we did in the first forty to get ahead, and that was our undoing. Another game where we're up 1-0 and Hartley makes the switch to take Baertschi off of his regular line to be replaced by Blair Jones, and another game where we don't hold the lead anyway. I would rather try to score the insurance marker than try to win a game 1-0. I don't get the argument. We're in a rebuild; if you want to teach the lessons of how to hold a lead, then put the guys you're trying to teach on the ice!

I don't think Berra deserves as much blame as he's getting. The move that Smith pulled is something that has victimized countless goalies over the years. Backlund did it last season against the Kings, for example, and we all talked about how great a move it was. If anyone was the goat on the play, it was Brodie for his gap control, but outside of that play Brodie played extremely well, so I definitely don't want to come down on him too hard.

 

[BB6]

I always liked Jerome, as a Canucks fan there were times when that smile was like bullets after the Flames would usher us out of the playoffs.
Now he is playing for the Bruins, a team I obviously don't love.

Can't help but want to see him hoist the cup though, there are many players that deserve a cup but if my team insists on not winning one, I'd like to see Iggy get one before anyone else.

 

[LukeD]

Pretty good game from the Flames, but it's tough to stop a top team when they get rolling.

 

[St Wardo]

That was so awesome, I gotta go watch that again. I hope someone gets that up on Youtube.

idk how to imbed videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08SRbixGAwQ

 

[Ace Rimmer]

idk how to imbed videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08SRbixGAwQ

Put all the stuff after the v= in the link into the YT code

 

[Unlimited Chequing]

Awesome, thanks!

 

[MarkGio]

I, too, want to point fingers on our collapse, but the fact is, we didn't do the things in the third that we did in the first forty to get ahead, and that was our undoing. Another game where we're up 1-0 and Hartley makes the switch to take Baertschi off of his regular line to be replaced by Blair Jones, and another game where we don't hold the lead anyway. I would rather try to score the insurance marker than try to win a game 1-0. I don't get the argument. We're in a rebuild; if you want to teach the lessons of how to hold a lead, then put the guys you're trying to teach on the ice!

I don't think Berra deserves as much blame as he's getting. The move that Smith pulled is something that has victimized countless goalies over the years. Backlund did it last season against the Kings, for example, and we all talked about how great a move it was. If anyone was the goat on the play, it was Brodie for his gap control, but outside of that play Brodie played extremely well, so I definitely don't want to come down on him too hard.

Yeah it was a good goal. Looking at the replay, however, it shows Berra cheating. Smith is a lefty going down the right side, so the angle is tougher when someone is on their off wing. It wasn't like the Perron goal when the angle was that much more impossible. Berra still gave Smith too much space short side IMO.

Its not completely Berra's fault. For a rookie goalie he's been pretty good

 

[Hand of Gaudreau]

Two saveable goals. Good goals, but saveable. Maybe its just frustrating watching Rask shut us down while we can't seem to save those tough ones.

I don't know how you consider Kreijci goal savable. A low blocker side shot deflected directly five hole is a goal that beats every goalie 9 times out of 10, and while the second goal was definitely savable, that doesn't take away from the fact that it was a great goal by Smith. If a player scores a great goal, then the goalie let in a great goal. While you'd like him to stop it, it's not like he let in a bad goal, not even remotely.

 

[Hand of Gaudreau]

IMO, Ramo earned an extended look with his last two starts..

Last 3 starts*

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Yeah it was a good goal. Looking at the replay, however, it shows Berra cheating. Smith is a lefty going down the right side, so the angle is tougher when someone is on their off wing. It wasn't like the Perron goal when the angle was that much more impossible. Berra still gave Smith too much space short side IMO.

Its not completely Berra's fault. For a rookie goalie he's been pretty good

It didn't help that Brodie got beat like a rented mule.

 

[JulianHopper*]

Flames played as well as they could and the Bruins simply turned it up in the third with Jarome leading the way and having a good third period.

Flames were better in most of the team stats including shots, takeaways, hits and blocked shots.

Flames also had more giveaways.

The Bruins went 1/3 on the power play and won most of the face offs (69%).

You're not going to win many games when you give away the puck, lose the majority of the faceoffs and have no help from special teams.

The Bruins were playing with the Flames and having fun, Jarome admitted it pretty much in his post game interview.

 

[JulianHopper*]

It didn't help that Brodie got beat like a rented mule.

But he did force the guy out and wide, Berra should have stopped that had he been upright against the post with his five hole closed.

 

[Anglesmith]

But he did force the guy out and wide, Berra should have stopped that had he been upright against the post with his five hole closed.

If he did that, he would leave the entire far side open. The reason the shot beat him was because he was in the middle of adjusting his position; Smith moved the puck toward the centre of the ice from the outside, and correspondingly Berra had to move to adjust for the room on the far side that that opened up. What you're advocating is that instead of trying to prepare himself for all possible shots, he guesses that Smith is going to go near-post and doesn't even try to stop far-post shots.

And the notion that the Bruins were 'playing with' the Flames is ridiculous. Getting four shots on net in the second period is not playing with the opposition. They were outplayed through 40, but they're a good team and sticking to their gameplan eventually produced results.

 

[JulianHopper*]

If he did that, he would leave the entire far side open. The reason the shot beat him was because he was in the middle of adjusting his position; Smith moved the puck toward the centre of the ice from the outside, and correspondingly Berra had to move to adjust for the room on the far side that that opened up. What you're advocating is that instead of trying to prepare himself for all possible shots, he guesses that Smith is going to go near-post and doesn't even try to stop far-post shots.

And the notion that the Bruins were 'playing with' the Flames is ridiculous. Getting four shots on net in the second period is not playing with the opposition. They were outplayed through 40, but they're a good team and sticking to their gameplan eventually produced results.

It was a good burst of speed by Reilly Smith but he was down on the bottom of the face off circle and almost on the goal line when he shot the puck. The chances of him scoring on the far side from there would have been slim.

The Flames looked like they were being smothered by the Bruins out there and didn't really have many good scoring chances.

 

[Anglesmith]

It was a good burst of speed by Reilly Smith but he was down on the bottom of the face off circle and almost on the goal line when he shot the puck. The chances of him scoring on the far side from there would have been slim.

But once again, that would mean Berra would need to gamble on Smith shooting exactly when he did, in which case if he held on and tried to cross the front of the net he would have looked like a pylon (not to be confused with any of the Pylons). Point is, he has to prepare for anything. I will say, though, that when I used to sometimes play goalie in soccer, we were taught to lag a little behind the shooter when he crosses the net, because it's easier to make a save in the direction you're already moving than to reach back. I'd say that Berra on this play just got the timing slightly wrong, and thought Smith was going to take just a split second longer to shoot. I'm not saying the goal wasn't saveable, I'm just saying that saving that shot is not as trivial as hugging the post and not moving.

 

[Richi]

We´re lucky that the only problem we have is one lousy shot that went into the net.
Other than that, all of our team played a perfect game and we´d be a lock for the playoffs. The goalie who stopped at an average rate is the only one responsible for the loss.

As much as I enjoyed the Berra talk, it´s getting old. We should look for a new whipping boy. Why not Cammy, he didn´t do his job (scoring) last night at least as much as Berra did. Or Giordano, who repeatedly let the opposite team shoot the puck on net, a thing a defenseman is supposed to prevent from happening.

Get real, people

 

[Ice Hawk]

Was a great tribute to a great player. I actually thought the video was a little light, but the crowd made up for it.

I loved Iggy and to me he was the prototypical power forward and my favourite all-time Flame.

However, I think it can cause problems on a team when a player is deified, and I think that happened with Jarome. Clearly ownership were blind to the need to trade Jarome and Kipper until it was too late as mentioned by Simmonds on the pre-game show on TSN.

Additionally, I think Jarome became caught up in his own hype a bit. As mentioned by Noodles last night his was impressed by the way Iggy bought into the system in Boston, as before he used to 'say hi to the goalie at the beginning of the game and you wouldn't see him again'.

This was evident the last few years on the Flames, when many times I noticed the defense break down, the opposition score a goal and Jarome coasting back through the neutral zone. That is inexcusable.

This kills the coach's message and really hurts the team when it comes from your captain and a living legend.

To me it was past time for Jarome to move on, I just wish it been a few years earlier when he had more trade value. As much as we grow attached to players, we can't allow that love to overshadow what is best for our team. Because after all, all players eventually move on through trade or retirement and we are left cheering for the same team.

But on a bright note, I think ownership finally got the message, and removed themselves and puck-bunny Ken King from hockey ops. I think the Flames are finally on the right track with the people they put in place, and have set up an infrastructure and organizational blueprint that will stand the team in good stead long after the current mgmt. team is gone.

On another note, I agree with MarkGio, Berra is inadequate. He can make some spectacular saves for sure, but he is not a legit #1 NHL tender and has cost us a lot of games.

After two periods allowing him an easy night only seeing 9 easy shots, when the heat came in the third and we started to break down it was his turn to return the favour and he didn't. Yeah, the first goal was deflected, but goalies do stop deflections and to me that one was stoppable. And yeah, Brodie lost his man on the second goal, but a Junior goalie would have been expected to stop that shot.

Not only does Berra let in bad goals, he lets in back-breakers. This just kills the team after giving 100% only to see the goalie sieve one to give the other team life and momentum.

Don't get me wrong, I am not hating on the guy. It isn't Berra's fault, he is doing his best and has only played a couple of hundred games in a far inferior Swiss league. But Hartley seems to feel he is 'the guy'. I think, like MarkGio, it is time to give Ramo the same opportunity as Hartley has given Berra. Ramo has looked pretty solid his last couple of starts.

Sorry for the long, negative post guys, especially from someone who posts as infrequently as I do, but I am a pretty frustrated fan right now.

Cheers.

 

[YMCMBYOLO]

As much as I enjoyed having Iggy come back for a game, some people need to get a grip. BOOING when a defender knocked Iginla's EN attempt? Disgraceful.

 

[Anglesmith]

Was a great tribute to a great player. I actually thought the video was a little light, but the crowd made up for it.

I loved Iggy and to me he was the prototypical power forward and my favourite all-time Flame.

However, I think it can cause problems on a team when a player is deified, and I think that happened with Jarome. Clearly ownership were blind to the need to trade Jarome and Kipper until it was too late as mentioned by Simmonds on the pre-game show on TSN.

Additionally, I think Jarome became caught up in his own hype a bit. As mentioned by Noodles last night his was impressed by the way Iggy bought into the system in Boston, as before he used to 'say hi to the goalie at the beginning of the game and you wouldn't see him again'.

This was evident the last few years on the Flames, when many times I noticed the defense break down, the opposition score a goal and Jarome coasting back through the neutral zone. That is inexcusable.

This kills the coach's message and really hurts the team when it comes from your captain and a living legend.

To me it was past time for Jarome to move on, I just wish it been a few years earlier when he had more trade value. As much as we grow attached to players, we can't allow that love to overshadow what is best for our team. Because after all, all players eventually move on through trade or retirement and we are left cheering for the same team.

I think for our organization, moving Jarome was the way it ended up having to go, but it never should have been that way, in my opinion. The way to avoid it would have been to have young players continuously rising through the ranks to push the team forward. If a couple of years after our run, we'd had a new nucleus coming through the team, Iginla could have been motivated rather than growing comfortable. If we'd needed to, we could have made minor moves to cut veterans and gain assets, like San Jose trading Douglas Murray last year. If we'd managed to ever actually build a team around Iginla, then he could have played the role he has right now with Boston for the Flames instead, and he could have gotten his cup here.

With Berra, I'll repeat it again, letting in goals that NHL goalies regularly let in is not a reason to believe he's less than an NHL goalie. On goals like the ones in Anaheim, he showed a lack of polish and I would agree that he did not play like an NHL goalie, but there were no goals in this game that an NHL goalie would stop 100% of the time.

 

[Hand of Gaudreau]

i think for our organization, moving jarome was the way it ended up having to go, but it never should have been that way, in my opinion. The way to avoid it would have been to have young players continuously rising through the ranks to push the team forward. If a couple of years after our run, we'd had a new nucleus coming through the team, iginla could have been motivated rather than growing comfortable. If we'd needed to, we could have made minor moves to cut veterans and gain assets, like san jose trading douglas murray last year. If we'd managed to ever actually build a team around iginla, then he could have played the role he has right now with boston for the flames instead, and he could have gotten his cup here.

With berra, i'll repeat it again, letting in goals that nhl goalies regularly let in is not a reason to believe he's less than an nhl goalie. On goals like the ones in anaheim, he showed a lack of polish and i would agree that he did not play like an nhl goalie, but there were no goals in this game that an nhl goalie would stop 50% of the time.

ftfy

 

[Ice Hawk]

I think for our organization, moving Jarome was the way it ended up having to go, but it never should have been that way, in my opinion. The way to avoid it would have been to have young players continuously rising through the ranks to push the team forward. If a couple of years after our run, we'd had a new nucleus coming through the team, Iginla could have been motivated rather than growing comfortable. If we'd needed to, we could have made minor moves to cut veterans and gain assets, like San Jose trading Douglas Murray last year. If we'd managed to ever actually build a team around Iginla, then he could have played the role he has right now with Boston for the Flames instead, and he could have gotten his cup here.

I have a tendency to agree with this for the most part. I think this goes to the 'Sutter was a crappy GM' side of the argument and although he did some good things he was out of his depth as he demonstrated in his last year. However if the mandate and pressure from ownership was directing his hand, he can't be held entirely accountable. Additionally, there are three people now doing what Sutter was doing on his own.

I believe he was too hands on when it came to the high draft picks, which I feel was made evident, when Feaster handed the draft to the scouting dept. and said 'they better have their list right'. They obviously did, and imo our drafting has been superb since Sutter left.

He was also too free dishing off #1 and #2 round picks for players who he felt could help win 'now'.

For me his main failing was not to aggressively pursue a legit #1 center. Both Richards and Thornton were traded during the critical years, and he wasn't in on either of them.

I don't think that is an excuse for Iginla to allow himself to become complacent though. He was still our capt. and getting paid enough that motivation shouldn't have been an issue. Especially when we were missing the playoffs by just a few wins.

With Berra, I'll repeat it again, letting in goals that NHL goalies regularly let in is not a reason to believe he's less than an NHL goalie. On goals like the ones in Anaheim, he showed a lack of polish and I would agree that he did not play like an NHL goalie, but there were no goals in this game that an NHL goalie would stop 100% of the time.

Hang on for a second, I didn't say he wasn't a legit NHL goalie. I said he was inadequate and not a bona fide #1 NHL goalie. To me that is not the same thing.

Like I said I am not blaming him, he is doing his best. Imo it is unrealistic to expect a goalie who has played as few pro games in the Swiss league as he has to be a bona fide #1 in the NHL.

Berra only had a .906 SA% for Biel last year. Yeah, they had a crappy team and he carried them, but still the Swiss league isn't even as good as the AHL. Even Ortio has a better SA% than Berra did in Abby, so does MacDonald and he is nothing more than a career backup.

Reto is bottom five in both SA% and GAA. That pretty much sums it up for me. I stand by my contention. If you want to say he is a decent backup though I would agree.

However I also credit him with being superb in shootouts, and getting us a couple of points by outlasting the opposition's goalie. But that doesn't outweigh his tendency to give up weak, backbreaking goals, at least from my perspective.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[TheHudlinator]

It isn't the first time we have seen a "good" goal scored on Berra while he is also out of position or caught cheating. He has great talent but he seems to lack the needed positional play that most successful goalies need (exceptions are guys like Hasek or Thomas). I thought he played well last night but especially the last goal left a sour taste in my mouth. This isn't to say that Ramo doesn't have issues as well (can't handle getting bodies in his face). Both have potential but what we are seeing is growing pains as these guys try to adapt their game to the NHL and grow.

Honestly thought we were the better team for the first 2 periods but to many defensive break downs in the third combined with some positional concerns from Berra lead to our downfall. I hate losing late but that is what separates us from the playoff teams is that playoff teams close out games and we find ways to lose.

 

[Anglesmith]

ftfy

Yeah, thanks for that. I'm not a goalie, I used to play a lot of goalie playing street hockey with my friends, but at best I can only guess at the actual difficulty of certain saves, so I don't want to take too hard a line on these arguments in case I'm talking out my ass.

Reto is bottom five in both SA% and GAA. That pretty much sums it up for me. I stand by my contention. If you want to say he is a decent backup though I would agree.

To which I would ask are all shots created equal? I think we can agree that if Berra was to face 50 shots a game of the same quality as the ones he faced through 40 minutes, he would likely be one of the top goalies in the league statistically.

 

[Ice Hawk]

As much as I enjoyed having Iggy come back for a game, some people need to get a grip. BOOING when a defender knocked Iginla's EN attempt? Disgraceful.

Agree 100%.