Post-Game Talk: We win

[Soundwave]

Apology accepted. All good.

I think I presented evidence as to why the trade was needed. I was on the fence about the trade, but after I read that interview after Hall's gong show 2016-17 and how well the Oilers played last season I changed my mind. I don't get why you are making the argument that the trade was not in any way required.

What could the Oilers have done to make Hall willing to have a dialogue with coaches here?

You think Glen Sather had hours of dialogue with Jarri Kurri?

Some players and coaches don't talk that much, some guys tell their coach everything about their personal life, their food preferences, what kind of strategy the team should employ, etc. etc. etc. Others say maybe 5 words to their coach in a week, doesn't mean they are bad players or bad people.

You are trying to conflate two different things, not having big conversation is NOT the same thing as not listening and doing whatever you wanted, Hall never said that and even clarified that quote.

He wasn't "not listening and just doing whatever he wanted". That's what some people are desperately trying to spin it into and that's not what he said.

I don't think Connor is the most talkative guy either, neither was Mario, neither are the Sedins. Some guys talk your f***ing ear off, some guys have very short conversation and don't like to talk much. You tell them what you want and they nod and say "ok coach" and that's the extent of it.

 

[Drivesaitl]

And it doesn't help that no matter what Draisaitl produces offensively, some fans simply will consider him lazy or "checked out" because of the style of game he plays, how he likes to slow the game down and suck the opposition towards him so he can dish to his linemates. He's not a 5'10" sparkplug who's running around a hundred miles an hour, giving tons of effort but with little to show for it. Guys like that are easy to like even when they're not actually pushing the needle in the right direction.

Draisaitl is essentially the anti-Yak.

Thanks for stating this.

I've stated much of the same thing and I think that not every bit of this is recognized for what it is. Also with Drai's puck control in offensive end. When he's desperately fending off checkers in the opponent end and often enough two at a time he, and the opponents know allowing him to keep the puck is dangerous. He's one of the elite passers in the game and no slouch scoring either. Yet when he's possessing the puck doggedly a dozen times a game in the opposition end I wonder if his detractors just consider those moments an uneventful nothings rather than them being the basis for many of his battle won plays. Drais wins puck and board battles out there constantly. Hardly anybody even seems to take note of it. Its like "Oh, he's dominant, oh well, do something"

As you state Drai is a magnet to draw in players because opponents have come to recognize you can't allow him to have the puck too much. Drai is often double teamed and pressured and facing topsix opposition and top 4 D pairings constantly while having linemates that are not as established. Its hard to create and play under those circumstances but he's doing it and pretty well most of the time.

 

[shoop]

You think Glen Sather had hours of dialogue with Jarri Kurri?

Please leave me alone and quite antagonizing me. I haven't replied to any of your anti-Chairelli posts since Monday. Please show me the respect I have shown you.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Exactly. Chia may or may not be a good GM, but the fact that no one offered anything more than Larsson for Hall shows that either the rest of the league undervalued Hall as well, and/or Larsson was considered a valuable piece that no one was willing to beat (or of course you can believe that Chia purposely passed on someone obviously better because reasons).

I mean, is there a team in the league that couldn't use this year's Hall? So why didn't anyone back up the truck and blow the Devil's offer away? I guess you could argue like Replacement did that Chia is terrible, but still league average?

I'll offer you a nickel for your dollar.

I don't see any other offers on the table, so that must be what it's worth.

 

[shoop]

The unique situation was that suddenly there were stronger Alpha's than Taylor Hall here in McD and Drai. Both are so damned mature that they would have come to expect optimal direction from Hall and he would have learned to expect it from himself. I do think McDavid is such an eye opener to so many players.

Did you mean to reply to my post with this? Either there is a level of sarcasm I don't understand or you got mixed up in who you were replying to.

Not sure what a willingness to dialogue with the coches has to do with McDavid or Draisaitl's maturity or lack thereof.

 

[PerformanceMcOil]

I'll offer you a nickel for your dollar.

I don't see any other offers on the table, so that must be what it's worth.

Haha, funny!

More like, I have a precious jewel that has been appraised at anywhere between $800k and $2M. I need cash right now more than I need a jewel, so I offer it to 29 of my rich peers. One of them says I'll give you $1.2M for it, and no one steps up to beat it. So, what is it's true value, and why don't 28 other people get questioned for not offering more than that, and making an easy couple 100k when its value ends up being close to the highest appraised value of $2M?

Or do you actually assume that Chia called one GM only, and was determined to take his best offer no matter what?

 

[Drivesaitl]

Did you mean to reply to my post with this? Either there is a level of sarcasm I don't understand or you got mixed up in who you were replying to.

Not sure what a willingness to dialogue with the coches has to do with McDavid or Draisaitl's maturity or lack thereof.

I don't think it was a bad reply albeit I could have prefaced it better. I guess I jumped over the part where leadership can come from anybody. Coaches, players, anybody could have influenced Hall positively and I do believe Connor and Leon were capable of this. I should have explained that better. No sarcasm. Just that I believe leadership can come from anybody but particularly those that are as together as someone like Connor. You meet someone like McDavid, work with him, play with him, whatever, enough contact with the person can change how you think about things.

It could be I misunderstood the issue you are stating re; coaching dialog. Others had stated it was Hall being obstinant, not engaged, or attitudinal problems. A lot of this can be addressed in the room even without coaches involved. Championship calibre clubs tend to have that kind of player milieu leadership.

heh, I'm probably not expressing this too well as I'm in the middle of working on some other things

cheers

 

[shoop]

It could be I misunderstood the issue you are stating re; coaching dialog. Others had stated it was Hall being obstinant, not engaged, or attitudinal problems. A lot of this can be addressed in the room even without coaches involved. Championship calibre clubs tend to have that kind of player milieu leadership.

I guess but I think you are actually making the case for a big trade of some kind.

There wasn't the leadershp in the 2016-17 Oilers dressing room. Something had to change. Chia thought it was Hall. Who was part of the leadership group that wasn't clicking you think should have moved?

 

[Soundwave]

I guess but I think you are actually making the case for a big trade of some kind.

There wasn't the leadershp in the 2016-17 Oilers dressing room. Something had to change. Chia thought it was Hall. Who was part of the leadership group that wasn't clicking you think should have moved?

He chose Lucic. Lucic was what triggered all this. He needed his precious Bruins guy and if he signs Lucic then that's Hall, Lucic, Pouliot, Maroon down the LW. That's a lot of money spent on the LW position.

So guess who had to go.

Bottom line is Chiarelli is not good at any of this. He didn't have to do any of this in Boston up until the Seguin situation (which failed miserably). In Boston he had a full compliment of forwards and a stud no.1 D from the word go, all he had to was supplement in role players as a additions.

Maybe, just maybe, he is far out of his element here. He never had to do any of this stuff in Boston and has gotten exposed badly. He's not good at trading high end players, in fact he's a disaster.

 

[shoop]

He chose Lucic. Lucic was what triggered all this. He needed his precious Bruins guy and if he signs Lucic then that's Hall, Lucic, Pouliot, Maroon down the LW. That's a lot of money spent on the LW position.

Please leave me alone and quite antagonizing me. I haven't replied to any of your anti-Chairelli posts since Monday. Please show me the respect I have shown you.

This is the second time in ths thread you have come after me. Why?

 

[Soundwave]

Please leave me alone and quite antagonizing me. I haven't replied to any of your anti-Chairelli posts since Monday. Please show me the respect I have shown you.

This is the second time in ths thread you have come after me. Why?

It's called a message board, people reply to other posts with counter points. It's kind of how this works. You're making points/assumptions about Hall and stretching quotes he made, that's fair game for other people to reply to.

Just as is the Lucic add in summer 2016, that's very likely related to the Hall situation, he is traded one day after Lucic tours the city. What a massive coincidence.

 

[belair]

It's called a message board, people reply to other posts with counter points. It's kind of how this works. You're making points/assumptions about Hall and stretching quotes he made, that's fair game for other people to reply to.

Just as is the Lucic add in summer 2016, that's very likely related to the Hall situation, he is traded one day after Lucic tours the city. What a massive coincidence.

This might be a long shot but maybe the possibility that a young, right shot defenseman that they might've been coveting came available which might've set some wheels in motion.

Why is Hall being discussed in a Vegas post-game thread?

 

[shoop]

Why is Hall being discussed in a Vegas post-game thread?

It's apparently a never-ending crusade to turn every thread into an anti-Chiarelli diatribe. There are already two threads dedicated to that, but for some posters that's not enough. If you dare disagree with that agenda it doesn't matter what you do or say, those posters will stalk every post you make.

 

[Soundwave]

This might be a long shot but maybe the possibility that a young, right shot defenseman that they might've been coveting came available which might've set some wheels in motion.

Why is Hall being discussed in a Vegas post-game thread?

It's be hashed to death, either way it's one of the dumbest moves in modern hockey history.

Why is this a discussion here, I don't know, I didn't initiate it, I'm just replying to what other people are posting.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

It's apparently a never-ending crusade to turn every thread into an anti-Chiarelli diatribe. There are already two threads dedicated to that, but for some posters that's not enough. If you dare disagree with that agenda it doesn't matter what you do or say, those posters will stalk every post you make.

That poster turns every thread he enters into an anti chiarelli thread

 

[Soundwave]

Yup. But the argument is always that Chiarelli has to be fired.

Maturity is a weird thing. You never know if or when guys are going to achieve it. The turnaround from Hall this year has been amazing and if he wins so be it.

Everybody craptalking Chia assumes a "better" or "good" GM could have gotten a much better return on Hall. This time last year I think the Devils would have taken Larsson back given the opportunity.

Brings up Chiarelli in this post-game thread. Then throws in a typical side shot at Hall.

Then is baffled why there is Chiarelli or Hall discussion.

#Itsnotrocketscience

 

[shoop]

That poster turns every thread he enters into an anti chiarelli thread

For long time posters we have gone through this movie before. A poster, for whatever reason, decides to go on a crusade and highjack every, single thread. Ignoring them doesn't work because it makes the threads unreadable. I haven't engaged with a certain poster for four days. Have asked him politely to treat me with a basic level of respect and leave me alone. He can't do that because it would detract from his crusade.

 

[Soundwave]

For long time posters we have gone through this movie before. A poster, for whatever reason, decides to go on a crusade and highjack every, single thread. Ignoring them doesn't work because it makes the threads unreadable. I haven't engaged with a certain poster for four days. Have asked him politely to treat me with a basic level of respect and leave me alone. He can't do that because it would detract from his crusade.

Learn how a message board works, lol. You're the one that made the above post, people are free to join in the discussion.

If you want to have specific discussions with only specific people, use the PM feature, if you post something in main threads, it can be replied to.

That's not "disrespect", I don't have to "respect" your opinion.

 

[belair]

It's be hashed to death, either way it's one of the dumbest moves in modern hockey history.

Why is this a discussion here, I don't know, I didn't initiate it, I'm just replying to what other people are posting.

You can refrain, you know? It's a thread where we won a hockey game against a pretty good team. That's a positive thing. There's got to be some escape here from seeing what somebody thinks about a trade that happened two years ago that had little impact on the result of the game.

 

[Soundwave]

You can refrain, you know? It's a thread where we won a hockey game against a pretty good team. That's a positive thing. There's got to be some escape here from seeing what somebody thinks about a trade that happened two years ago that had little impact on the result of the game.

That's fine, I'm not the one who brought it up and starting taking side shots at said player for no reason (see shoop's above post). He makes posts about it and then complains when people don't take his word as gospel. That's not how a message board works, sorry.

There's been a pretty aggressive "campaign" on this board by a small group of posters to take a news article quote and turn it into "Hall did whatever he wanted here and didn't listen to coaches" That's not what he said, people are free to point that out.

 

[shoop]

t's a thread where we won a hockey game against a pretty good team. That's a positive thing. There's got to be some escape here from seeing what somebody thinks about a trade that happened two years ago that had little impact on the result of the game.

I guess there is some responsibility on my part. Post #264 was the start of a reasonable diversion that lead to the angry diatribe. Not saying a certain poster started it, but my actions got twisted pretty quickly.

I always thought you weren't supposed to criticize people by name. It's pretty sad really. I reply to your posts and that's part of being in a conversation. If you don't want to engage with me and ask me to treat you with respect I will do that. That's what decent human beings do.

This entire message board should be the possibility for an escape. I don't engage with the fire Chiarelli threads and really hope the topic could remain on those threads. It really is sad that when you ask people for basic respect they refuse.

 

[Drivesaitl]

This might be a long shot but maybe the possibility that a young, right shot defenseman that they might've been coveting came available which might've set some wheels in motion.

Why is Hall being discussed in a Vegas post-game thread?

in fairness Hall has been discussed by basically everybody here since yesterday when the Devils made the playoffs. Its not completely unexpected that that would occur, and trigger, many fans here. It is quite a significant moment for the player and for all Oilers fans who realize what a mistake the org engaged in. The reality being that with the Oilers out of the playoffs the board will transition pretty naturally to discussion of other bandwagon fandom and like it always does. But much more pronounced this season of course.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I guess there is some responsibility on my part. Post #264 was the start of a reasonable diversion that lead to the angry diatribe. Not saying a certain poster started it, but my actions got twisted pretty quickly.

I always thought you weren't supposed to criticize people by name. It's pretty sad really. I reply to your posts and that's part of being in a conversation. If you don't want to engage with me and ask me to treat you with respect I will do that. That's what decent human beings do.

This entire message board should be the possibility for an escape. I don't engage with the fire Chiarelli threads and really hope the topic could remain on those threads. It really is sad that when you ask people for basic respect they refuse.

I sympathize with this, really I do, and didn't see this until I'd answered Belair.

I'll do my part and bow out of the thread. Nobody is talking about the game at all but you expressed the above want well enough.

The trouble with the fire Chia thread is it keeps going in circles and nothing happens...

 

[shoop]

I sympathize with this, really I do, and didn't see this until I'd answered Belair.

I'll do my part and bow out of the thread. Nobody is talking about the game at all but you expressed the above want well enough.

The trouble with the fire Chia thread is it keeps going in circles and nothing happens...

Fair enough.

We will know by the end of the month. Tambo and MacT both got canned by the end of April.

If Chia survives until May, I will probably take a break as it will be all anti-Chia all the time thanks to one poster here.

 

[Soundwave]

Fair enough.

We will know by the end of the month. Tambo and MacT both got canned by the end of April.

If Chia survives until May, I will probably take a break as it will be all anti-Chia all the time thanks to one poster here.

Yeah, lol I'm the the only "anti-Chia" poster here, lol. The softball Edmonton media is even not coming to his aid these days and taking shots at him, when you're at that level as a coach or GM in Edmonton, you really, really have screwed the pooch.