Speculation: 2018 Off-Season: We fell short again... now what do we do?

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CupsOverCash

Registered User
Jun 16, 2009
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it's doubful yzerman will rush Raddysh or Katchouk he starts them both in the ahl for at least a year

Yea but if they impress like Cirelli did. If these guys can bring another spark to our lineup then I wouldnt be surprised if one of those guys ended up here eventually like Cirelli did last year.
 

Todd1a

Kucherov or prospect
Jun 19, 2014
16,505
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Yea but if they impress like Cirelli did. If these guys can bring another spark to our lineup then I wouldnt be surprised if one of those guys ended up here eventually like Cirelli did last year.
it's possible depends if he brings miller and kuntiz back
 

CupsOverCash

Registered User
Jun 16, 2009
16,375
7,104
it's possible depends if he brings miller and kuntiz back

Kunitz will be gone. We have other players who can play his role. I wish we would have played Conacher in that spot because Kunitz lost his goal scoring ability and it felt like Conacher could have done exactly what Kunitz did on the ice but also score too.
 

TheTakedown

Puck is Life
Jul 11, 2012
13,689
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I never ever want to see Girardi playing with Hedman again. He's fine as a bottom pairing pk specialist playing <15 mins but for the love of god get him out of the top 4. Martinez would be perfect if he was a righty.

It's funny how coaches insist that Girardi is a top pairing player. We had the same problem with AV in NY. McDonagh was our best defensemen for AV's entire tenure, and i believe 80+% of his ice time was with Girardi. At the same time, NYR let Stralman walk and Tampa took him.

I can't, for the life of me, understand why some NHL execs still think Girardi is a good player. The guy has been a flaming dumpster since 2015.
 

Sky04

Registered User
Jan 8, 2009
29,067
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It's funny how coaches insist that Girardi is a top pairing player. We had the same problem with AV in NY. McDonagh was our best defensemen for AV's entire tenure, and i believe 80+% of his ice time was with Girardi. At the same time, NYR let Stralman walk and Tampa took him.

I can't, for the life of me, understand why some NHL execs still think Girardi is a good player. The guy has been a flaming dumpster since 2015.

He was good on the bottom pair, chill out Machinehead. If anything McDonagh was the bigger disappointment and him being your best defenseman probably spelled the start of the NYR problems.
 

The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
48,759
29,265
He was good on the bottom pair, chill out Machinehead. If anything McDonagh was the bigger disappointment and him being your best defenseman probably spelled the start of the NYR problems.
McDonagh was more of a disappointment based on expectations - Girardi was just not put into a position to succeed.
 

TeslaCoilFan

Slightly Elite Fan
Mar 17, 2017
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Girardi might have been paired with Hedman most of the time, but he didn't get top pairing minutes. Heddy averaged 26+. McD and Stråls averaged 22+ and, for most of the regular season and the playoffs, Girardi averaged only 15 to 16 minutes. It wasn't until the last series where his TOI ended up over 18 minutes and that's when his performance began to drop off. I don't really have a problem with Girardi and I'm shocked I just wrote that. :laugh:

Because McDonagh and Strålman were so good together in the NJ and Boston series, I'm beginning to wonder if it wasn't just Stråls that was injured during the Caps series. McD did come to us with a busted hand and it wouldn't be surprising if he didn't re injure it during that excessively physical ECF series. A possibility?? :huh:
 

Sky04

Registered User
Jan 8, 2009
29,067
18,146
Kucherov coasting? Sure whatever, you pulled your weight this season buddy. Johnson coasting? lol what have you done all year. Johnson won't ever be a consistent threat again, I think that ship has sailed and will continue to get worse as Point progresses and other talented wingers come up. Johnson only broke 50 points this year switching to Points line, he's going to have a hard time just playing up to his contract value the next 7 years.

Trade Johnny, send a message to the lineup without breaking the core, if you guys thought moving Filppula helped them look better, imagine what axing Killorn and Johnson could do. One of the obvious thing in recent years is that new blood in the lineup works, the complacent "core "players on term that are the problem.
 

These Are The Days

Oh no! We suck again!!
May 17, 2014
34,358
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Tampa Bay
Better help at wing would be nice. If he's not going to break the bank and not ask for a contract that's like 6 years, I would be in favor of brining in Mike Green to take Coburns place
 

Brie

bearer of bad news
Jul 5, 2014
22,562
2,365
It was a really though ending to a really great season. I was especially impressed with our young guys and it was hard to believe based on how they played that it was some of their 1st NHL playoffs. Vasy was also amazing, sure he had some down games towards the end of the season but it was to be expected based on the fact that it was his full season as a starter. Hopefully he will be able to use what he’s learned about the game and himself this season and get even better.I'm not sure what we need to do in the off season but I think we have to do something. I trust Yzerman with those decisions though.
 
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Bolt 45

Registered User
Oct 19, 2015
1,598
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Curious as to who else you see as being near the end? Cally? Girardi? Which kinda sucks since both are under contract.
Those two, yes. Coburn as well. Stralman should be fine for now, but I'm not sure how he'll look a year from now with more mileage. Might need to manage his minutes over the year. The league gets measurably younger and faster every year, and dropoffs happen suddenly. Serg should be getting a bigger role, so we'll see.

Contracts? I'd be sort of curious to find out what you think people are alluding to when they call Yzerman a Jedi? If he decides to move a guy, he'll figure out a way to do it. He always has. That being said, I honestly have no idea what he'll do.
 

TampaJay

Registered User
Jan 16, 2016
779
151
I think part of the problem is the way this team is constructed. It works great in the regular season, but when the “whistles are swallowed” in the playoffs… not so much. I’m not blaming the loss on the refs, just saying that WSH was better at it and it puts a team that is built like Tampa at a disadvantage. In what other sport do the rules change for the playoffs? It wish it weren’t so because I think higher scoring hockey is more fun to watch, but it is what it is, we see it every year like clockwork. I hate it when I see on the main boards that people think Tampa is a soft team. Guys like Point and Gourde aren’t soft at all, but when guys that size get physically pounded like they did this series, especially game 6, it has a cumulative effect. I don’t want to lose the speed at the expense of size, but more needs to be done to build a team that can weather the physicality of the playoffs. There are guys in the pipeline like Katchouk and Cernak who can address this, but it is time to admit that a couple more roster moves in this direction are necessary.
 

Stammertime91

TBL: TEAM OF THE CENTURY
Dec 13, 2011
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I think part of the problem is the way this team is constructed. It works great in the regular season, but when the “whistles are swallowed” in the playoffs… not so much. I’m not blaming the loss on the refs, just saying that WSH was better at it and it puts a team that is built like Tampa at a disadvantage. In what other sport do the rules change for the playoffs? It wish it weren’t so because I think higher scoring hockey is more fun to watch, but it is what it is, we see it every year like clockwork. I hate it when I see on the main boards that people think Tampa is a soft team. Guys like Point and Gourde aren’t soft at all, but when guys that size get physically pounded like they did this series, especially game 6, it has a cumulative effect. I don’t want to lose the speed at the expense of size, but more needs to be done to build a team that can weather the physicality of the playoffs. There are guys in the pipeline like Katchouk and Cernak who can address this, but it is time to admit that a couple more roster moves in this direction are necessary.
Pretty much. Without looking at their roster, probably two of Washington's smaller forwards were Vrana and Burakovsky, both gave us trouble and neither played small. Burakovsky didn't look great coming back from injury but of course he scored two in a game 7. Vrana was just a nightmare every time he got the puck.

Our forwards, even Stamkos, Kuch and Miller would get near the puck and would get shaken like a Pitbull grabbing a lizard. Even when trying to get free we were stuck in mud. Our board battles were non existent because of this. We got by round 1 and 2 because they weren't overtly big. We were able to send Gourde, Cirelli, Point and Johnson in there to forecheck and come away with the puck but going into a corner against Washington was like expecting a lovebug to come out of a spiders web - in tact. They had zero issues winning battles against. It was like boys among men when it came down to difficulties on the wall. It took them like 3 seconds and minimal effort to retrieve, shadow or pick a puck out regardless of which zone they were in. It took us twice as long and we barely came away with it. We battered Boston because of our tenacity and we couldn't even hinder Washington because of this.

Size is something Yzerman needs to address. When guys like Gourde and Point are negated on the forecheck, something is terribly wrong. They had no room to do anything in open ice either, they were smothered. Need a couple +6'1" +210lb guys in this lineup to bulk it up. Cirelli is a great player but when he has mini mite Gourde and the mop that is Killorn on his wings, that line against any physicality is neutralized. Same goes for our top 6. Palat is a nice touch there but it's only guy in the top 6 playing through checks.

And fwiw, Palat had a better postseason than Killorn. I'm 100% ok with hanging onto Palat over Killorn going forward.
 
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More 2004

Stamkos Apologist
May 3, 2004
3,330
1,324
Tampa
I honestly wouldn't be sad at this part of the fantasy.

At least we would finally have a defenseman capable of not ringing one off the first man 9/10 times. Hedman on the 2nd PP unit. Yikes. 1st round exit here we come!
Thuis team with JT and EK would be hilarious. But you are right some how we would blow it..
 
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Bolt 45

Registered User
Oct 19, 2015
1,598
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Pretty much. Without looking at their roster, probably two of Washington's smaller forwards were Vrana and Burakovsky, both gave us trouble and neither played small. Burakovsky didn't look great coming back from injury but of course he scored two in a game 7. Vrana was just a nightmare every time he got the puck.

Our forwards, even Stamkos, Kuch and Miller would get near the puck and would get shaken like a Pitbull grabbing a lizard. Even when trying to get free we were stuck in mud. Our board battles were non existent because of this. We got by round 1 and 2 because they weren't overtly big. We were able to send Gourde, Cirelli, Point and Johnson in there to forecheck and come away with the puck but going into a corner against Washington was like expecting a lovebug to come out of a spiders web - in tact. They had zero issues winning battles against. It was like boys among men when it came down to difficulties on the wall. It took them like 3 seconds and minimal effort to retrieve, shadow or pick a puck out regardless of which zone they were in. It took us twice as long and we barely came away with it. We battered Boston because of our tenacity and we couldn't even hinder Washington because of this.

Size is something Yzerman needs to address. When guys like Gourde and Point are negated on the forecheck, something is terribly wrong. They had no room to do anything in open ice either, they were smothered. Need a couple +6'1" +210lb guys in this lineup to bulk it up. Cirelli is a great player but when he has mini mite Gourde and the mop that is Killorn on his wings, that line against any physicality is neutralized. Same goes for our top 6. Palat is a nice touch there but it's only guy in the top 6 playing through checks.

And fwiw, Palat had a better postseason than Killorn. I'm 100% ok with hanging onto Palat over Killorn going forward.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I think it was more complicated than just size. We were generally just inept along the boards. As often as not we'd win a battle only to lose the puck with the first pass. It looked somewhat positional to me. In both zones Washington had guys in better support positions to win the secondary battles after the initial board battles. It was obvious that they were playing their game, and we were playing a game that we didn't like and weren't comfortable playing. We literally leaned into our disadvantages, fed what they did well, and fueled their offense by granting them more possession time in our end.

And, yes, I agree that Palat is a keeper. He's way harder to replace than other guys.
 
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Stammertime91

TBL: TEAM OF THE CENTURY
Dec 13, 2011
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I'm not saying you're wrong, but I think it was more complicated than just size. We were generally just inept along the boards. As often as not we'd win a battle only to lose the puck with the first pass. It looked somewhat positional to me. In both zones Washington had guys in better support positions to win the secondary battles after the initial board battles. It was obvious that they were playing their game, and we were playing a game that we didn't like and weren't comfortable playing. We literally leaned into our disadvantages, fed what they did well, and fueled their offense by granting them more possession time in our end.

And, yes, I agree that Palat is a keeper. He's way harder to replace than other guys.

Agreed. I believe we have the personnel. I think coaching is the issue for our disappointments lately. It may rest entirely on the players behind the scenes and Cooper may be trying his best, but at some point, at face value, it's apparent we play his brand of hockey and we've lost two conference finals when we were up 3-2 and lost 3 straight in a SCF when we didn't lose 3 straight the entire year.

Then there's the flaw of having too many small guys. This is a psychological issue to an extent. Numerous times Johnson, Gourde and Cirelli held up when carrying the puck and a hit was never made on them. I can't blame them. I'm taller than all of them and played a very physical style when I played hockey, but if I saw Wilson or Ovechkin flying at me, I would probably panic as well and brace myself for my last breath of life. They are going to make a play but they are not willing to get decapitated. Bigger players can deal with this a bit better. Small players that get hit for 4 or 5 consecutive games have the tendency to fade away into obscurity. Exceptions are guys like Marty, nothing could keep him down in any game against anybody. It's not to say bigger framed players don't either or like the idea of getting pounded but it's not just height difference like Boston. Caps had some weight on us too. Couple the height and weight differences without losing any speed and that was not in our favor. Not to mention we had terrible hockey fundamentals, a one dimensional game plan, minimal adjustments that were ineffective and entirely run off the rink in 18 of 21 periods.

There's so many problems when you sit down and think, this was a problem, that was a problem, he was a problem, that matchup was a problem, etc but in the end, if you compare this roster to winning rosters of the last five years, there's no reason we shouldn't be in the SCF. Even at a minimum of losing in this round, it should not have been 99% on Vasilevskiy to keep us in games. The fact that he gave us a chance in game 3, stole game 4 and I'd argue played great in 5 to stave off a late push, it could've been done in 5 games for us. That's not good - at all, and totally unacceptable with this roster.
 
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