Series Talk: WCSF: Dallas Stars vs Colorado Avalanche | Stars lead 3-2

[bossram]

I think away fans don't maybe fully understand the Dallas game and game plan. "Tons of chances" for Colorado in Game 3? I donno man, I saw lots of muffins, easy pucks into Oettinger glove and chest, not many real high danger chances. Just because a team puts up 12-15 shots where 10-12 of them are easy saves doesn't really scare me as a Dallas fan.

Expected goals after that first period was 1. Is that really some crazy period? Dallas just sticks with their game, plays to counter attack when possible, and then is up 1-0 after the first period.

Dallas needs to shutdown 3 players to win this series, Colorado needs to neutralize 4 lines and beat a better goalie than their team has. Tough ask for the 3 guys.

I think in the first and second periods, COL had a lot of mid-grade chances. Again, I think they were a bit unlucky.

Mackinnon and Rantanen haven't been good enough, no doubt. Tanev's done a job on them. And because of that, they'll lose. But the reverse is kinda true for Dallas so far. Johnston has been their offensive catalyst and if either Vegas or Colorado had shut him down, Dallas would be out.

kinda hard to go with the eye test when the avs have not played a single minute of the series with the lead. and even the OT in game 1, dallas controlled the majority of it until the game winning breakaway.

not counting them out until it's truly over, but with the benefit of hindsight they look exactly how i would expect a team down 1-3 to look.

That is fair, score effects are a big part of it, to be sure.

I just haven't really been that impressed by Dallas either. The criticism of Colorado is that they have no depth, but subtract a single player from Dallas (Johnston) and they would already be out.

 

[Avsfan1921]

Probably for the best.

I try not to engage with trolls too much, but can occasionally get sucked in.

 

[MBTendy]

Turns out the only one huffing was nuke.

It's a shame but Val since being drafted has always been about "me, myself, and I" and never truly put his team first. He forced Jim Nill's hand by threatening to go back to Russia after being drafted if he didn't make the team. He then left the team when things got tough and he wasn't gifted top minutes anymore. Val then eventually comes back to only admit he gave up on Dallas the year he went without a goal/penalty minute the entire season.

Fast forward to Colorado, he puts his team in an awful position last postseason, and now this post season.

 

[Oneiro]

Low key, DeBoer is one of the greatest coaches of all time. Just needs a cup to prove it. It's funny to contrast him with Laviolette, who's been to the final three times but otherwise is out in round 1 or 2 and seems to wear out fast.

His Florida teams were tough to play against, just didn't have talent. That NJ team was weird and he congealed it all. He took the Sharks to a final and conference finals. Two conference finals with VGK and another one with DAL.

I love the way he just gets total buy in up and down the lineup.

 

[MrHeiskanen]

I think in the first and second periods, COL had a lot of mid-grade chances. Again, I think they were a bit unlucky.

Mackinnon and Rantanen haven't been good enough, no doubt. Tanev's done a job on them. And because of that, they'll lose. But the reverse is kinda true for Dallas so far. Johnston has been their offensive catalyst and if either Vegas or Colorado had shut him down, Dallas would be out.


That is fair, score effects are a big part of it, to be sure.

I just haven't really been that impressed by Dallas either. The criticism of Colorado is that they have no depth, but subtract a single player from Dallas (Johnston) and they would already be out.

Johnston had 0 points in game 2 and 3 tho.. I think people are overstating his impact as the sole driver of this series. If Johnston was injured, then Seguin or Duchene or someone else gets more than 13 minutes a night.. and they will contribute. Maybe not to the exact same level but close.

 

[eartotheground]

I think in the first and second periods, COL had a lot of mid-grade chances. Again, I think they were a bit unlucky.

Mackinnon and Rantanen haven't been good enough, no doubt. Tanev's done a job on them. And because of that, they'll lose. But the reverse is kinda true for Dallas so far. Johnston has been their offensive catalyst and if either Vegas or Colorado had shut him down, Dallas would be out.


That is fair, score effects are a big part of it, to be sure.

I just haven't really been that impressed by Dallas either. The criticism of Colorado is that they have no depth, but subtract a single player from Dallas (Johnston) and they would already be out.

games 2 and 3 Johnston had 0 points. stars still won bc they have... drumroll.... depth.

 

[Avsfan1921]

It's a shame but Val since being drafted has always been about "me, myself, and I" and never truly put his team first. He forced Jim Nill's hand by threatening to go back to Russia after being drafted if he didn't make the team. He then left the team when things got tough and he wasn't gifted top minutes anymore. Val then eventually comes back to only admit he gave up on Dallas the year he went without a goal/penalty minute the entire season.

Fast forward to Colorado, he puts his team in an awful position last postseason, and now this post season.

It shows a lot about his personality for sure. I was really hoping the team would be pissed last night and come out with fire, but alas they did not. That’s more disappointing to me than nuke.

 

[eartotheground]

Johnston had 0 points in game 2 and 3 tho.. I think people are overstating his impact as the sole driver of this series. If Johnston was injured, then Seguin or Duchene or someone else gets more than 13 minutes a night.. and they will contribute. Maybe not to the exact same level but close.

jinx

 

[LT]

I think in the first and second periods, COL had a lot of mid-grade chances. Again, I think they were a bit unlucky.

Mackinnon and Rantanen haven't been good enough, no doubt. Tanev's done a job on them. And because of that, they'll lose. But the reverse is kinda true for Dallas so far. Johnston has been their offensive catalyst and if either Vegas or Colorado had shut him down, Dallas would be out.


That is fair, score effects are a big part of it, to be sure.

I just haven't really been that impressed by Dallas either. The criticism of Colorado is that they have no depth, but subtract a single player from Dallas (Johnston) and they would already be out.

You realize the reason Johnston has exploded is because the opposing defenses have to already give all their attention to guys like Robertson and Hintz, right?

How on earth has Dallas not been particularly impressive?

 

[Spilot23]

The cope and excuses are on. "Omg no Nuke or Toews".. okay explain the first three games. Explain how Dallas dominated without 1C Hintz.

This series really should be over 4-0 if we are being honest about game 1. Good comeback by the Avs tho.

Too many excuses and ignoring what Dallas is doing. If the Avs had any resemblance of a 2nd 3rd or 4th line they might be doing better?

Andrew Cogliano in 2024? Come on.. Dallas has THREE forwards healthy scratched miles better than players in your starting 12. It's very obvious why Colorado is struggling and it has nothing to do with one or two guys being out.

I think it starts with our top players what I see is the difference between Stars and Avs top players committing defensively. We have Rantanen who plays like a disconnected controller until he has the puck. As you said I myself don't ignore what Dallas is doing and give them credit. Also DeBoer might be our kryptonite dude just know how to play the Avs.

I don't specifically blame Nuke or Toews being out but they certainly impact the game. Just yesterday having Toews instead of Jones who gave two PPs (1 goal) because he got beat twice so he had to hook. I think I posted it somewhere in "underrated players" thread how Nuke impacts our team alot just looking at win-lose record with and without him in the lineup. We're close to .500 without him and somewhere around .700 with. Game 3 was probably the game the Avs should've won I think they were dominating. Dallas waits for one mistake and they capitalize. Then they defend as a unit Avs can barely find a lane to shoot at when they do it's either blocked or controlled after the rebound. When Stars shoot it goes through to Georgiev then every Avs players fall like dominoes trying to find the puck. IMO Big difference in how both teams defend as a unit.

Cogliano is far from being a problem and he can still skate I don't think he's any different to the year we won the cup with him in the lineup. On your last sentence the bolded, I would say they were a reason how we got dominated yesterday but aren't the reason why we're down 3-1. Clearly mentally the players probably look at it like Seattle 2.0. Jones instead of Toews is a huge blow. I pretty much blame our top players looking very average in this series while they're getting their a** kicked by a 21 years old Johnston who have been great. Again let's give credit to Stars how they have been handling 29, 96 and 8.

 

[MrHeiskanen]

You realize the reason Johnston has exploded is because the opposing defenses have to already give all their attention to guys like Robertson and Hintz, right?

How on earth has Dallas not been particularly impressive?

People always make excuses rather than give Dallas credit.

Folks, Colorado has led for 0 mins and 0 seconds of this series. Let that sink in a minute.

 

[MBTendy]

I think in the first and second periods, COL had a lot of mid-grade chances. Again, I think they were a bit unlucky.

Mackinnon and Rantanen haven't been good enough, no doubt. Tanev's done a job on them. And because of that, they'll lose. But the reverse is kinda true for Dallas so far. Johnston has been their offensive catalyst and if either Vegas or Colorado had shut him down, Dallas would be out.


That is fair, score effects are a big part of it, to be sure.

I just haven't really been that impressed by Dallas either. The criticism of Colorado is that they have no depth, but subtract a single player from Dallas (Johnston) and they would already be out.

You couldn't be any further away from the truth with that take.

Dallas has the deepest team in the league and have been having success in these playoffs without some key guys being a big factor (Pavs, Duchene, Roope). The depth pulled up big against VGK and the bottom 6 was a huge factor in beating out the Knights. Not so much WJ.

As good as WJ is, the big reason he is dominating is because team's have been focusing on the other top end players on the Stars. Why? Depth. All Dallas has to do is worry about shutting down one line on the Avs and they're laughing.

Colorado has not lead at ANY point in this series after 4 games and somehow you are trying to downplay that to being "unlucky". Come on man. Maybe look at the other team and just admit y'all are being out played against a team that runs four lines deep appose to a team that relies heavily on your top dogs. This is all about depth and is a big reason as to why Dallas is up 3-1.

 

[bossram]

Johnston had 0 points in game 2 and 3 tho.. I think people are overstating his impact as the sole driver of this series. If Johnston was injured, then Seguin or Duchene or someone else gets more than 13 minutes a night.. and they will contribute. Maybe not to the exact same level but close.

games 2 and 3 Johnston had 0 points. stars still won bc they have... drumroll.... depth.

They would have lost to Vegas without Wyatt.

You realize the reason Johnston has exploded is because the opposing defenses have to already give all their attention to guys like Robertson and Hintz, right?

How on earth has Dallas not been particularly impressive?

They probably shouldn't, tbh. Johnston is legitimately their best forward.

I tried to watch Dallas as much as I could throughout the season and obviously this playoffs. Honestly on paper and metrics I value, they're clearly elite. Can't argue against that. But I just watch them and don't love them.

 

[bossram]

You couldn't be any further away from the truth with that take.

Dallas has the deepest team in the league and have been having success in these playoffs without some key guys being a big factor (Pavs, Duchene, Roope). The depth pulled up big against VGK and the bottom 6 was a huge factor in beating out the Knights. Not so much WJ.

Colorado has not lead at ANY point in this series after 4 games and somehow you are trying to downplay that to being "unlucky". Come on man. Maybe look at the other team and just admit y'all are being out played against a team that runs four lines deep appose to a team that relies heavily on your top dogs. This is all about depth and is a big reason as to why Dallas is up 3-1.

Who is "y'all"? Lmao. I'm not from Colorado or a Colorado fan. I'm just stating observations from what I'm seeing. Why are "y'all" so uppity?

The "depth" you're referencing coming through, is, once again, pretty much just Johnston. Dadonov too.

Dallas will win. And I'm not saying they don't deserve to. Like I said, on paper, they are elite. I try to watch them as much as I can to see that, but I can't come around.

 

[MBTendy]

It shows a lot about his personality for sure. I was really hoping the team would be pissed last night and come out with fire, but alas they did not. That’s more disappointing to me than nuke.

To be fair, that is quite the bombshell to drop a couple hours before puck drop. Add that onto Toews not suiting up, it's definitely hard to play a game after that, let alone the biggest one of the season up to date.

Regardless, it will be interesting to see what is going to happen with Val and the Avs moving forward. Would the players even want him back after what he's done these last two playoffs?

 

[RefalancheStillLose]

It's a shame but Val since being drafted has always been about "me, myself, and I" and never truly put his team first. He forced Jim Nill's hand by threatening to go back to Russia after being drafted if he didn't make the team. He then left the team when things got tough and he wasn't gifted top minutes anymore. Val then eventually comes back to only admit he gave up on Dallas the year he went without a goal/penalty minute the entire season.

Fast forward to Colorado, he puts his team in an awful position last postseason, and now this post season.

can this fallacy die already?
His contract with the KHL was only terminated on condition of him playing in the NHL.
It wasn't a threat to "go back to Russia"

 

[Ghost of Murph]

People always make excuses rather than give Dallas credit.

Folks, Colorado has led for 0 mins and 0 seconds of this series. Let that sink in a minute.

Let people keep doubting and making excuses. Dallas' roster, top to bottom, is a work of art. Nill is curently the best GM in the league IMHO. The Stars have so many guys that can beat you. Hard to stop them all.

 

[AslanRH]

all these pages because posters aren't talking nice enough about Dallas?

 

[LT]

Who is "y'all"? Lmao. I'm not from Colorado or a Colorado fan. I'm just stating observations from what I'm seeing. Why are "y'all" so uppity?

The "depth" you're referencing coming through, is, once again, pretty much just Johnston. Dadonov too.

Dallas will win. And I'm not saying they don't deserve to. Like I said, on paper, they are elite. I try to watch them as much as I can to see that, but I can't come around.

Marchment - Duchene - Seguin was one of the best lines in the league at 5v5, and since they've been reunited in the playoffs, they've looked just as dangerous.

Dallas has 3 lines that could be 1st lines on many teams. And our 4th line would be a good 3rd line on many others. We have guys sitting in the pressbox who would be getting 12-15 minutes a night on 25+ other NHL teams.

 

[Avsfan1921]

To be fair, that is quite the bombshell to drop a couple hours before puck drop. Add that onto Toews not suiting up, it's definitely hard to play a game after that, let alone the biggest one of the season up to date.

Regardless, it will be interesting to see what is going to happen with Val and the Avs moving forward. Would the players even want him back after what he's done these last two playoffs?

I highly doubt they want him back but we’ll see if there is enough for a contract termination. A lot of people Lebrun being one, thinks there isn’t ale enough to terminate. It’s a tough spot.

As far as the game last night, yeah hearing he and Toews were going to be out would be a tough blow mentally but they failed in every regard. From the first puck drop they failed. Not a good sign of mental fortitude.

 

[Kcb12345]

Who is "y'all"? Lmao. I'm not from Colorado or a Colorado fan. I'm just stating observations from what I'm seeing. Why are "y'all" so uppity?

The "depth" you're referencing coming through, is, once again, pretty much just Johnston. Dadonov too.

Dallas will win. And I'm not saying they don't deserve to. Like I said, on paper, they are elite. I try to watch them as much as I can to see that, but I can't come around.

Damn, sucks to hear Hintz's 4 point game didn't count, Heiskanen leading the team in scoring doesn't count, Stankoven and Seguin's 2 goal games the other day didn't count. Back to back GWG's for Seguin actually, dont count. Faksa game 7 winner doesnt count. Dellandrea winning goal in Vegas doesnt count. Marchment, Benn, Duchene, Robertson, none of their goals count. Tough losses.

Pavelski and Smith are the only Stars forwards without a goal so far btw through 11 games.

The point totals may be low, but everyone has chipped in so far in some way. Great depth

 

[Dr Pepper]

Damn, sucks to hear Hintz's 4 point game didn't count, Heiskanen leading the team in scoring doesn't count, Stankoven and Seguin's 2 goal games the other day didn't count. Back to back GWG's for Seguin actually, dont count. Faksa game 7 winner doesnt count. Dellandrea winning goal in Vegas doesnt count. Marchment, Benn, Duchene, Robertson, none of their goals count. Tough losses.

Pavelski and Smith are the only Stars forwards without a goal so far btw through 11 games.

The point totals may be low, but everyone has chipped in so far in some way. Great depth

I like how he included Dadonov in there for good measure too, eh?

"Yep, that oughtta do it."

 

[MBTendy]

all these pages because posters aren't talking nice enough about Dallas?

View attachment 870625

Ya I miss the times this thread was flooded by a handful of cocky Colorado fans thinking the Stars were going to be another Jets 2.0 after two games ... that was great

 

[Elysian]

Dallas not deep lol, disregard having 8 20+ goal scorers, definitely no depth.

 

[RefalancheStillLose]

Dallas not deep lol, disregard having 8 20+ goal scorers, definitely no depth.

Yeah but it's not 10 20+ goal scorers.
Might as well go home now, the f***ing losers