Series Talk: WCQF: Dallas Stars vs Vegas Golden Knights (Series tied 3-3)

[TheBeard]

.....what?

"Nuh uh, those players don't count" is a pretty foolish response.

Ten Dallas Stars draft picks played for the team last night. Not sure why you're trying to downplay that.

I meant only 5 other players. 5 from two drafts and 5 from… I guess 14 if we’re going back to 2008 and Benn.

How is this a knock on the team, exactly?

A knock? No. The original post was in reply to Dallas’ superior drafting when in reality it hasn’t been much of anything outside of two supremely elite draft classes.

 

[LT]

I meant only 5 other players. 5 from two drafts and 5 from… I guess 14 if we’re going back to 2008 and Benn.


A knock? No. The original post was in reply to Dallas’ superior drafting when in reality it hasn’t been much of anything outside of two supremely elite draft classes.

And how exactly does that translate to us not being great at drafting?

I genuinely don't understand the point you're trying to make.

 

[Dr Pepper]

I meant only 5 other players. 5 from two drafts and 5 from… I guess 14 if we’re going back to 2008 and Benn.

Regardless, it still doesn't change what I said though.

I'm not as well versed on the draft histories of Winnipeg or Carolina but if anyone wants to go through other gameday lineups and compare, be my guest. Maybe the Isles have 14 draftees in their lineup tonight for all I know.

Just saying Dallas's roster with 10 former picks is still impressive and shows they've got a good system in place.....regardless of when these players were picked.

 

[TheBeard]

And how exactly does that translate to us not being great at drafting?

I genuinely don't understand the point you're trying to make.

I… legit don’t know how to say it any clearer. Two successful drafts in 18 isn’t an ideal ratio. Having one player out of every two drafts make an impact on your team isn’t ideal. It’s easy to point to the Campbells and Nick Paul’s and say “no, see???” But I see it as their best pick outside of Hintz in the second is, who, a bottom pairing d-man in the third iLindell? Faksa in the first?

Again, just my opinion.

 

[MrHeiskanen]

Pavelski is toast, he is slower than usual.

 

[Dr Pepper]

I… legit don’t know how to say it any clearer. Two successful drafts in 18 isn’t an ideal ratio. Having a player one player out of every two drafts make an impact on your team isn’t ideal. It’s easy to point to the Campbells and Nick Paul’s and say “no, see???” But I see it as their best pick outside of Hintz in the second is, who, a bottom pairing d-man in the third iLindell? Faksa in the first?

Again, just my opinion.

So because Dallas didn't hit it out of the park every single year, like they did in 2017, their scouts are trash?

Ok then.

Tough crowd.

 

[hangman005]

Pavelski is toast, he is slower than usual.

Oh no you don't.

 

[TheBeard]

So because Dallas didn't hit it out of the park every single year, like they did in 2017, their scouts are trash?

Ok then.

Tough crowd.

Hit it out of the park? They barely got a bloop single in most years. They'd also never hit on a player beyond the 3rd round outside of Klingberg, Benn and Jussi in the 2000s. I'll give full credit to what the found in 2017 and 21. No doubt they did their homework, found some real steals, but for the most part the team's struggled to hit on draft picks. It's not a personal shot. Some teams are way worse. My own team, the Sharks, struggled in hitting on picks.

 

[Zapp]

I… legit don’t know how to say it any clearer. Two successful drafts in 18 isn’t an ideal ratio. Having a player one player out of every two drafts make an impact on your team isn’t ideal. It’s easy to point to the Campbells and Nick Paul’s and say “no, see???” But I see it as their best pick outside of Hintz in the second is, who, a bottom pairing d-man in the third iLindell? Faksa in the first?

Again, just my opinion.

We know, it’s just ill informed is all.

Idk why you would lump all the different management groups together for a drafting consensus but I’ll bite.

Lindell isn’t a bottom pairing defensemen, he’s one of the best shutdown d-men in the league and has played top 4 minutes for basically his entire career. His minutes go up in critical defensive situations. Faksa was one of the best defensive C’s in the league for years too, he’s only recently fallen off. So even Nieuwendyk has draft picks that are still paying dividends for Dallas.

Nill’s 1st pick was Nichushkin, which may not have worked for us, but he’s obviously a high-end NHL player for the Avs. 2014 hurt for us, and 2015 could’ve gone better but we still ended up with a #1 C out of the 2nd round in Roope Hintz.

2016 was forgettable, but Dallas made up for it in 2017 by hitting 3 home runs - Heiskanen, Oettinger, Robertson.

2018 - Ty Dellandrea which might not be a world beater but he did score last night against Vegas.

2019 -Thomas Harley , who now is a top pairing defensemen on Dallas

2020 -Bourque was the MVP of the QMJHL his D+1 and then the AHL this year. Antonio Stranges still has potential as well

You know the rest.

I think Dallas is as good as it gets for drafting in the last 15 years. Especially for a team who’s highest pick in it’s entire existence in Dallas is 3rd overall (Miro).

If Bourque and Bichsel both pan out, that would comfortably solidify Dallas as the best team at drafting right now, imo.

 

[TheBeard]

We know, it’s just ill informed is all.

Nah. You just see things through the eyes of a Dallas Stars fan. Nothing wrong with that. I don't have the arrogance to tell you you're wrong, merely I don't see it as optimistically as you do.

If Bourque and Bichsel both pan out, that would comfortably solidify Dallas as the best team at drafting right now, imo.

Not biased AT ALL.

 

[flying squirrel]

Good guys - 2
Bad guys - 2

At least Dallas -vs- Vegas has given NHL fans a 2-2 series in 1st rd, much kudos to both clubs for that. Now it's a best of 3 series!! Hope Dallas finds a way to get Pavekski a "Cup" but him finding net would help with that cause.

 

[Zapp]

Nah. You just see things through the eyes of a Dallas Stars fan. Nothing wrong with that. I don't have the arrogance to tell you you're wrong, merely I don't see it as optimistically as you do.


Not biased AT ALL.

You just have no credibility which you proved by saying Lindell was a 3rd pairing Dman. You could’ve watched 2 minutes of the game against Vegas last night and known that was false. It has nothing to do with being optimistic lol. I was just pointing out you made a lot of assumptions on our draft based on no knowledge, or at best, conjecture.


Feel free to post the draft boards of those teams you think are doing better. Bad opinions are fine but digging your heels into them is a different story.

 

[TheBeard]

You just have no credibility which you proved by saying Lindell was a 3rd pairing Dman. You could’ve watched 2 minutes of the game against Vegas last night and known that was false. It has nothing to do with being optimistic lol. I was just pointing out you made a lot of assumptions on our draft based on no knowledge, or at best, conjecture.


Feel free to post the draft boards of those teams you think are doing better. Bad opinions are fine but digging your heels into them is a different story.

The fact you're hanging your hat on Esa Lindell is all I need to know about how desperate you are to defend the Stars draft history.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Not sure why much of the discussion is based on prior to 2013, when Nill took over. He was responsible since then, but can't take credit for Benn, Lindell, etc.

You can say that '17 and '21 were the only good classes, but as someone pointed out, we got Dellandrea, Harley, etc. in those "off years" where we "only" got one Bonafide NHL guy out of the draft.

Stars fans were very excited in 2013 for Nill to bring his Detroit philosophy of drafting for skill, not size and "character" whatever that is. That said, Delly was definitely a "character" and "hustle" type with limited upside, so he has drafted all types and occasionally gone for need rather than BPA.

Overall, it seems something changed in the scouting dept, which other Stars fans could probably pinpoint, and it has yielded great results.

 

[Ratbath]

The fact you're hanging your hat on Esa Lindell is all I need to know about how desperate you are to defend the Stars draft history.

You were the one who decided to say he's a third-pairing guy when he literally never has been. The guy is top ten in PK minutes/game over the last decade at 600+ games. He was top pairing with Klingberg basically the whole time Klinger was here. It's almost like you're just making shit up. And to prove what? that if you take away several of a team's best picks their overall drafting isnt as good? yeah, no shit bud

 

[Ratbath]

also here's a list of top ten picks that busted for the Stars since Richard Jackman in 1996 - Scott Glennie at #8 in 2009 (edit so it doesnt look like im cherrypicking: then they took Campbell at 11 the following year). Those were definitely bad times but that's it unless you want to say Nichushkin

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Again, what is the point of going back that far? Nill came in 2013. For that matter, any draft by previous GM's or drafts so far back that there are no players from that draft on the team, or maybe even in the league doesn't explain why the Stars are where they are now.

Your post prompted a quick review of old Stars draft history. While generally maligned because of his first two top picks busting (Glennie, Campbell) players picked by Joe N amassed 5914 games played through this season. GM Jim Nill has 3348 and counting in 11 years vs 4 for Niewy, but with more actual NHL stars (Miro, Otter, JRob, Hintz, Wyatt Johnston, etc.)

The total game count can be representative of player quality but doesn't tell the whole story. That said, in the last 10 years, what teams have had the highest count of actual NHL games played by their draft picks, whether with that team, or traded to another?

 

[ElGuapo]

The fact you're hanging your hat on Esa Lindell is all I need to know about how desperate you are to defend the Stars draft history.

You're saying stupid stuff like "remove two SUPREMELY ELITE drafts" from their drafts and they're not good at drafts. Two supremely elite drafts classes in seven years is fantastic. But they're also getting NHL players from the other classes over the past decade. Everyone else in the league would take what the Stars have done draft wise over this stretch.

 

[Vegas07]

Stone has 1 point in 4 games and is a minus 3 this series. People got upset when he had a goal early in game 1 but since then what has he done?

 

[LT]

Stone has 1 point in 4 games and is a minus 3 this series. People got upset when he had a goal early in game 1 but since then what has he done?

That one point was a tip-in in the first minute of game 1, too.

He's been a complete non-factor for Vegas.

 

[TheBeard]

also here's a list of top ten picks that busted for the Stars since Richard Jackman in 1996 - Scott Glennie at #8 in 2009 (edit so it doesnt look like im cherrypicking: then they took Campbell at 11 the following year). Those were definitely bad times but that's it unless you want to say Nichushkin

This is a very odd thing to post considering the only other top 10 pick they had is Heiskenen. So you're saying they're 1 for 2 on top ten picks since they busted on Richard Jackman.

 

[ElGuapo]

Stone has 1 point in 4 games and is a minus 3 this series. People got upset when he had a goal early in game 1 but since then what has he done?

ENRAAAAAGED ME! *hulks out*

 

[Ratbath]

This is a very odd thing to post considering the only other top 10 pick they had is Heiskenen. So you're saying they're 1 for 2 on top ten picks since they busted on Richard Jackman.

That is the point. It’s not like they’re blowing top picks because they haven’t had any to blow. And they’re 1/1 under the current regime

 

[oconnor9sean]

How is this thread being hijacked by the literal one person in the hockey world who is criticizing the Stars draft history right now?

 

[HanSolo]

How is this thread being hijacked by the literal one person in the hockey world who is criticizing the Stars draft history right now?

Hey your drafting is crap. There. Two.