WBS Penguins 2017-18 Season Thread: Pens out in first round, black aces are up

[RizzleMcRib]

Not if Kessel gets his own line, Horny is stapled to Geno, and Rust continues to splutter with Sid.

Part of me wonders if, when fit, ZAR and Rust could emulate Hags and Horny with Geno, allowing Horny to go back with Sid and putting Hags with Brassard and Kessel. And I'm not just suggesting this to blow up KIRK's brain if he ever sees this.

In any case, I don't see a lot more to say about Sprong. I just hope he's not 13th forward here next season, or it's gonna get mental...

ZAR was working well with Sid, I don't see why they wouldn't put them back together and put Rust back on the 3rd line. That way you can still keep HGH together.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

See, I agree 100%, I wouldn’t say Sheary has trouble following the play and at least being in the spot to make the appropriate play. His issue is execution and falling down.

And I agree, I would try out Sprong. I just think it is funny people want to simply swap the players. If I’m a Pens fan I’m way more excited by what Simon and ZAR have shown me in NHL minutes than Sprong.

We're on the same page with most things here, I think. The main reason I'm advocating Sprong now is because ZAR and Simon are injured, and we have very little to lose and potentially a lot to gain by trying Sprong rather than sticking with underwhelming competition like Rowney, Jooris, and Sheary.

 

[Tom Hanks]

ZAR was working well with Sid, I don't see why they wouldn't put them back together and put Rust back on the 3rd line. That way you can still keep HGH together.

Guentzel and ZAR are both LW’ers in the NHL though until proven otherwise.

 

[RizzleMcRib]

Guentzel and ZAR are both LW’ers in the NHL though until proven otherwise.

I know he has spent his time on the left, but I know WBS had ZAR listed as C/RW, and he played RW in college.

 

[Gurglesons]

We're on the same page with most things here, I think. The main reason I'm advocating Sprong now is because ZAR and Simon are injured, and we have very little to lose and potentially a lot to gain by trying Sprong rather than sticking with underwhelming competition like Rowney, Jooris, and Sheary.

I think they see what they did with moving Pouliot up and down and are trying to avoid that. Sprong would have to go immediately down if we had a healthy roster, no?

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Good discussion in here.

My opinion on the matter is that I'd like to see Sprong up but I have to trust the coaches on this. They watched his game intently for 8 games and decided that WBS was best for his development. Sully was even specific on what they feel he needs to work on. He only has a handful of waiver exempt AHL games left, so it is smart to use them to make him the best player possible. His play away from the puck will be what keeps him in the lineup when he goes through a dry spell, and in the long run it should help boost his consistency and production.

We should also not forget Sully's strong developmental background. Also, Recchi was the developmental coach who watched and visited Sprong in juniors. In addition to the WBS coaching staff there are also Scott Young and Jarrod Skalde making recommendations. I have to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Jacob]

They’re being hard on Sprong because their expectations of him are so high. That’s a good thing.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

So who here actually watches Sprong in Wilkes-Barre?

Not me. I'm going strictly by how he looked in the NHL, AHL production, and highlight packs.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I think they see what they did with moving Pouliot up and down and are trying to avoid that. Sprong would have to go immediately down if we had a healthy roster, no?

It'd depend on how well he was doing, I imagine.

You keep bringing up this 9 point pace, but what about last year when he was on a 21 point pace when he wasn't getting 75% d-zone starts or playing with Kuhn and Reaves?

I don't think it's worth saving a roster spot for a 28 year old who's biggest selling point is that he might get back to his career-best 21 point pace, extrapolated from a 27 game sample size.

Rowney's a passable plug. Not somebody I'd give a second thought to waiving in order to give a talented prospect with high upside a shot in a vacant scoring line role. With our present injuries to ZAR and Simon, we could still cycle through options like Jooris, Dea, Blueger, DiPauli, Johnson, etc.

None of them are going to be a significant drop-off from Rowney's present standard, in even a worst-case scenario.

 

[Gurglesons]

It'd depend on how well he was doing, I imagine.



I don't think it's worth saving a roster spot for a 28 year old who's biggest selling point is that he might get back to his career-best 21 point pace, extrapolated from a 27 game sample size.

Rowney's a passable plug. Not somebody I'd give a second thought to waiving in order to give a talented prospect with high upside a shot in a vacant scoring line role. With our present injuries to ZAR and Simon, we could still cycle through options like Jooris, Dea, Blueger, DiPauli, Johnson, etc.

None of them are going to be a significant drop-off from Rowney's present standard, in even a worst-case scenario.

We can’t do that though? And we are still in a fight for home ice?

We can call up one player for injury and have one call up left.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think people are reading too much into it when it comes to Sprong. They're not turning him into Kuhnhackl or Hossa, they're developing traits with him that they view as important for him to succeed with the Penguins (specifically Crosby). People here make up a narrative of him being wronged, when he has legitimate things he needs to work on his game in order to succeed. Even Neal was more than just a guy with a killer shot.

If AHL production and goal scoring was all that determined NHL readiness, Pulkkinen would have gotten a top-6 spot in like 2015. But he's not even a NHLer at this point.

 

[WDYT]

I dunno, but I really hope they don't screw him up.

What I never get about these takes is, why is the player always the victim? Why can't it ever be that the prospect is not doing what is asked and expected of him?

It's hyperbole to say they want him to be Kuhnhackl or Hossa. But there's probably a basic level of non-goal scoring skills they want and feel are required to play in the NHL. Why is it wrong to expect that he develops those, if they don't think he's going to be able to be successful and help the team without them?

I think you just need to look at how they've handled other young players in recent years. Is it more likely that, for some reason, they don't like Sprong and are just dicking him around, even though it's detrimental to the team's future? Or is it more likely that there is something different about him compared to a Guentzel or Murray or whoever.

 

[thecore]

Drouin doesn't suck. He's not a good center though.

I don’t think we would disagree. I think he is sucking compared to his potential, that means he is performing well below expectations. I would say for most of the year Guentzel has been sucking too, and I wouldn’t trade him for nearly anyone.

 

[thecore]

What I never get about these takes is, why is the player always the victim? Why can't it ever be that the prospect is not doing what is asked and expected of him?

It's hyperbole to say they want him to be Kuhnhackl or Hossa. But there's probably a basic level of non-goal scoring skills they want and feel are required to play in the NHL. Why is it wrong to expect that he develops those, if they don't think he's going to be able to be successful and help the team without them?

I think you just need to look at how they've handled other young players in recent years. Is it more likely that, for some reason, they don't like Sprong and are just dicking him around, even though it's detrimental to the team's future? Or is it more likely that there is something different about him compared to a Guentzel or Murray or whoever.

I tend to agree with you, but it is fair to question what those non goal scoring skills are. Is it offensive zone positioning? Neutral zone chip plays? Pinch decisions? Covering for d men? Those things he can work on. But if they are expecting his defensive zone positioning and stick work to approach Hossa levels, that won’t happen in one AHL season, so if he’s a better option than Sheary offensively, why not give it a try?

 

[WDYT]

but it is fair to question what those non goal scoring skills are.

I tend to think it's actually this:

Is it offensive zone positioning? Neutral zone chip plays? Pinch decisions? Covering for d men?

Not this:

But if they are expecting his defensive zone positioning and stick work to approach Hossa levels

There's no reason to think they expect him to be a defensive whiz. They haven't held other recent prospects to that standard. They have Phil Kessel on this team.

so if he’s a better option than Sheary offensively, why not give it a try?

I still take issue to these kinds of statements. Who says he's better than Sheary? He wasn't lighting up the score sheet when he was up playing with Sid earlier in the season. He scored three points in a game against the worst defensive team in the league and otherwise was a zero. Compare to Aston-Reese, who was consistently putting up points in a variety of situations.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

There is nothing ridiculous about it. He was called up "In case" and they didnt need him. If they thought he was an NHL center right now he would already have a place on the team. There not gonna play a guy just to use the new toy.

You have every right to disagree with their assessment but nothing about how the situation played out is ridiculous.

If your choice is someone else or Rowney, someone else is the right choice every f***ing time.

 

[Ryder71]

Is Bengtsson back? Also, can anyone who watches WB give me a scouting report on him and if he can play at the NHL level in a pinch? Thanks.

 

[3074326]

Is there any place to watch WBS games? Aside from going.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Simon and ZAR also struggled when they were up, then they got hot and then for one of them, Simon, he got cold but guess f***ing what? He was still kept up. Why is Sprong on such a short god damned leash?

Yet Rowney can clown around as the worst player on this team.
Sheary can literally fall out of f***ing nowhere and play absolute ass defensively.

But *JR Voice* BAH GAWD, THE NERVE OF SPRONG TO STRUGGLE MIGHTILY WITH THE MIGHTILY STRUGGLING CROSBY AT THE TIME!..

For f***s sake. Seriously?


Seriously?

When Simon and ZAR are healthy, I understand, play them, both bring something to the table that this team needs. Simon should/could be a good add to Sheahan's line and ZAR is a solid add to Sid's line as a not as "hyped up" version of Horny that Sid can handle. In that case, yeah, why bring up Sprong? Just seems stupid. But man, people saying "oh he lasted 8 games, Simon and ZAR have been more impressive" yeah no. They both struggled too but were given more leash to figure their game out. Sullivan doesn't like Sprong and it's obvious and I hope Sullivan pulls his loud mouthed head out of his ass at some point with that when the opportunity to call up Sprong is there and he should.

Otherwise...

Guentzel, Crosby, Aston-Reese
Hagelin, Malkin, Hornqvist
Rust, Brassard, Kessel
Simon/Kuhnhackl, Sheahan, Jooris/Simon

Sheary, sit, try not to fall on your midget ass in the press box. Think long and hard about why you have such a weak ass shot and how you randomly fall all by yourself.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

If your choice is someone else or Rowney, someone else is the right choice every ****ing time.

Yeah its just thst simple, just cause. Guy i hate is the worst ever, no chance anyone could ever be worse. Remember when everyone though Rowney was good lasy year. Trying to say we should keep him around to save cap space on the 4th line. And Two years ago it was Kuhnackl and soon it can be Jooris... next week on as the world turns.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Yeah its just thst simple, just cause. Guy i hate is the worst ever, no chance anyone could ever be worse. Remember when everyone though Rowney was good lasy year. Trying to say we should keep him around to save cap space on the 4th line. And Two years ago it was Kuhnackl and soon it can be Jooris... next week on as the world turns.

Kuhnhackl serves a purpose and I hated that he was ever elevated beyond the 4th line, even though I once argued he earned it for his strong play and quickly regretted that after seeing him above the 4th line.

But outside of the jokes of "Rugged Bennett" I really did not like Rowney in the line-up at all, if anything I championed Archibald for that 4th line RW spot for a long time before he was dumped for nothing. I still rather have Archie over Rowney and for damn sure over Jooris too.

I hate Rowney, I don't give a f*** about his feel good story about being a shitty nobody that made it. Cool, he made it, earned a ring, now he can go away. He's terrible in the limited role he already he has.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Kuhnhackl serves a purpose and I hated that he was ever elevated beyond the 4th line, even though I once argued he earned it for his strong play and quickly regretted that after seeing him above the 4th line.

But outside of the jokes of "Rugged Bennett" I really did not like Rowney in the line-up at all, if anything I championed Archibald for that 4th line RW spot for a long time before he was dumped for nothing. I still rather have Archie over Rowney and for damn sure over Jooris too.

I hate Rowney, I don't give a **** about his feel good story about being a ****ty nobody that made it. Cool, he made it, earned a ring, now he can go away. He's terrible in the limited role he already he has.

Sure but there is a decent chance anyone from the minors is just as bad that the point. This same damn thing happens year after year. First a 4th line scrub doesnt look horrid in his first callup and every wants to play with the new toy. The the bloom come off the rose when hes the year old toy is EXACTLY the same guy. And a new scrub gets to be gushed over.

 

[Nakawick]

I thought that Sprong would get another call up this year, and maybe he still will, but we may only see him if we get several injuries or out of desperation if we forget how to score.

 

[Peat]

I thought that Sprong would get another call up this year, and maybe he still will, but we may only see him if we get several injuries or out of desperation if we forget how to score.

He has to remember how to score himself. I thought that he'd follow the Guentzel model - play great, get called up, get sent down when he starts running cold, improve, come back up and kill it. But he failed to execute point number four on that list. If he can bounce back and start scoring again, his shot at being the next call up goes a lot.

 

[AverageJoeFan]

I wonder if WBS doesn't use film/video? If they do, you have to wonder what he couldn't see on that as opposed to sitting in a press box?