Was Raymond Bourque a generational talent?

[Staniowski]

Certainly nobody thought of Bourque as being generational when he played, even if the term wasn't used then.

The term "generational" is used for the purpose of distinguishing a player above a "superstar". For example, in the 1970s you could call Esposito, Clarke, Potvin, Kharlamov, Lafleur superstars....so what are you going to call the other guy, who was obviously better than the superstars? I guess that's the kind of thinking that leads to "generational".

Of course, problems arise....people get labeled generational when they're 15 (Lindros), or after their careers are finished (Bourque?).

And "superstars", which used to be reserved for the very best, are now being used to describe everyday stars.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Yes I did. Quoting myself from 2021 (comments on Karlsson likely not up to date):

I tried to put together a VsX system for defensemen, but I've never published it because I haven't been happy with the results. I'm not positive that I've identified the leading defenseman scorer in each year, and there are some voids in defensemen scoring that pump up the numbers of a few players that don't seem reasonable.

That being said, a very high-level summary:

• Orr is so far ahead of everyone else, it's not funny
• Coffey is clearly 2nd place - way behind Orr, but comfortably ahead of anyone else
• Pilote, Kelly and Shore are the next pack (Pilote seems too high because he had fairly little competition; I made sure Kelly's time is at D only)
• Nine players are grouped closely together - Harvey, Potvin, Gadsby, Hollett (!), Lidstrom, Clancy, Pratt, Leetch and Bourque
• The final "top" grouping is MacInnis, Karlsson (these numbers are a few years old - he may be in the top group at this point), Park, Housley, and Gonchar
• After that, you get into players like Lapointe, Robinson, Salming, Zubov, Blake, Pronger, Niedermayer, etc

This seems right.

 

[SillyRabbit]

To be clear:

Bourque was runner-up in the closest Hart trophy race ever, 225 to 227 against Messier in 1990, and it was NOT one of Bourque's nine 20+ goal scoring seasons!!

Raymond is a Langway and a MacInnis.

(That year, fittingly, the team captains met in the Stanley Cup Finals: Messier's Gretzkyless Oilers beat Bourque's Bruins, though, to be fair, Messier was scoreless in the series yet in Game 1 Bourque scored back-to-back goals to tie the game in the 2nd period of the longest ever Stanley Cup game (the epic 3OT Klima ending), then Bourque scored the tying goal in the first period of Game 2. He shut down Messier in game 3 in Boston to win player of the game honors, but the Oilers won the next two to finish their dynasty.)

If I recall correctly, the Oilers specifically game-planned around targeting Bourque as well.

They knew he was the catalyst of the Bruins offense and focused specifically around shutting him down.

This is in addition to his elite play on the defensive side of the puck.

 

[sdf]

And who fetisov then, a messiah?