Vrbata & Nedorost Or Frolov

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by Hockey Moose, Nov 29, 2003.

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  1. Hockey Moose

    Hockey Moose Registered User

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    Which combo will be better in the long run?

    Would a trade of Vrbata/Nedo be something a lot of teams would do to land a top prospect like Frolov? Frolov has been mentioned as being a elite prospect, will he become one? Who knows.

    If you were GM would you take the 2 or go for the gold with Fro?
     
  2. Blackshad

    Blackshad Registered User

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    Vrbata & Nedorost
     
  3. rinkrat13

    rinkrat13 Registered User

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    I like Vrbata more then Frolov... Frolov is a good player/prospect, I just think in the long run Vrbata will be a better player.
     
  4. habsfansam

    habsfansam Registered User

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    frolov... for safety. were i a gambling man i'd take the vrbata and nederost just because they may both turn out to be fantastic.

    the kid (frolov) has size, the ability to play a two-way game, tremendous upside that he is already realizing, and he's more surefire than either nederost or vrbata. Alex will be the prototype scoring winger of the future.

    I like both nederost and vrbata, but neither has shown consistency as of yet (i believe they will eventually). I actually have all three in a GM simulation that i'm in...
     
  5. punchy1

    punchy1 Registered User

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    Frolov is currently at 7 goals and 8 assists and is a plus 8. He plays both ends of the ice and is starting show glimpses of being a dominant player. The thing with this fellow is that he isn't just a sniper, he is the total game and is just starting to show what he can do. He plays allot of time with guys who would have a hard time making most NHL teams 3rd and 4rth lines and he is still producing offensively. He is playing that *european power forward* style of game. Not a true PF mind you, but close as a european player at his age is going to get. Not that he is the best player in the league or anything close, it's just that the kid is the real deal and is proving it most every night. I would stick with him rather than gamble on two other prospects who have yet to show that they can pan out in a like manner. Not that they are bad prospects, just that Frolov is already showing he deserves his *elite* (as much as any young player does) tag and that makes him a bit more of a value. I think anyway but really, what do I know.
     
  6. Frolov

    Frolov Registered User

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    Vaclav Nedorost - 8 games 1 goal 1 assist
    TSN projects him to be a 2nd liner

    Radim Vrbata - 23 games 3 goals 5 assists
    TSN prokects him to be a 2nd liner

    Alexander Frolov - 22 games 7 goals 7 assists
    TSN projects to be a 1st liner

    Theres more to Frolovs game then the stats. He's almost imposible to contain behind the goal line. Once he gains some confidence this guys gonna be a dominant force for the Kings.

    Just watch him play...
     
  7. Vagrant

    Vagrant The Czech Condor

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    Vrbata just scored a hattrick tonight.

    Carry on :D
     
  8. Epsilon

    Epsilon #basta

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  9. Hunter Gathers

    Hunter Gathers White guilt milquetoast piece of human garbage. Sponsor

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    They certainly do hit hard and take advantage of the weaker players...
     
  10. Enoch

    Enoch This is my boomstick

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    BS!!!! He is playing 16 minutes a night on the top two scoring line. Every game I have watched of the Kings, about 7 - 8, he is getting to play with Palffy, etc. (when they are healthy).

    I dont think he deserves the "elite" tag at all. He has opened some eyes, but he still has a lot to do before he should be labeled an "elite" player. If he puts up good numbers the entire year, then he might be labeled a "good" prospect..


    I'd take the Vrbata/Nedorost duo. Nedo will probably be a 40 - 50 pt man, and I think Vrbata has all the talent to be a good sniper.
     
  11. punchy1

    punchy1 Registered User

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    24 games played,(3 games more than Frolov) 11 points, (3 less than Frolov) +/- 0. (8 less than Frolov) Vrbata is also a year older than Frolov but he too is a good young player trying to find his way in the NHL. It just is worth pointing out these stats though when you put up one that says that Vrbata had a hatter (great job by him too) that there are allot of other things that Frolov does that makes him the much better player, including scoring.
     
  12. punchy1

    punchy1 Registered User

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    Is that the three games that he did actually get to play with Ziggy then mate? You must not watch many Kings games oh and then you can add to the list that Ziggy is the only top line forward that Frolov has gotten to play with and then, only for a handfull of minutes and only in three games.

    As for your other *point* enoch, you might want to go back and read what I wrote again. You didn't come close to comprehending it. I said that he is an *elite* prospect. "as much as any young player can be" *elite*. Go grind your axe elsewhere mate. If you don't watch every one of his games like I have your only able to comment on part of the picture so to come in and talk like you know his game is merely conjecture based on a seeing him play a couple of times. Not worthy.
     
  13. Enoch

    Enoch This is my boomstick

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    So your telling me that the top 2 lines of the Kings boasts only 3rd/4th liners and some that do not deserve to be in the NHL?? GIve me a break..Only 3 games???? I have an EXTREMELY hard time buying that, especially since the Kings top two lines are full of non-nhlers :shakehead. I know the Kings have injury problems, but Frolov has had the benefit of playing with decent linemates, contrary to your post. I looked back and found at least 5 games where Frolov got points from Palfy.......and that is just points. If you take an average of that, 33% of Frolov's points have been in part due to Zigmund Palffy. Also, this isn't counting the games he has played with Stumpel when he wasn't hurt. My point isn't that Frolov's stats are inflated, because they are not, it is that your post stating Frolov played with 3rd/4th liners and players that did not belong in the NHL, is wrong.

    I did comprehend it. When you say elite prospects, the list is restricted to the absolute VERY best. Only a few players come to mind..Kovalchuk, Heatly, Jay Bow., Rick Nash, Joni Pitkanen......these are elite. Frolov is a bit below them in talent IMO.

    I think Frolov is the better player of the three, by a decent margin. However, with Nedo and Vrbata combined, I think the advantage is given to the duo.
     
  14. punchy1

    punchy1 Registered User

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    To your first point I can say that while you don't believe it, it is true mate. Not that Jon Sim, Brad Chartrand and the like don't "belong" in the NHL, it is that they are borderline 2nd and 3rd liners at best. I don't see them or any of the Kings other "energy" liners with the exception of Klatt at having even a remote shot at playing on any other teams top lines. It is a stone cold fact that he was on an "energy line" with the best player being Trent Klatt for the majority of his season (not being on a line with Klatt, but the energy line thing) and you can ask any kings fan how frustrated they were having to watch Frolov languish on the third and fourth line most nights. So again, it isn't a matter of opinion but one of fact. Ask around, look it up. Those are the facts mate. So that is what I meant when i said what I said, you are basing your opinion on a small handfull of moments of watching Frolov where I have watched each game and can tell you the facts. Believe whatever you want to though, its just that anything else isn't the truth.

    As to the second part, I don't consider proven players like Heatley or Kovy as prospects anymore but more proven players but i would, without a doubt say that Frolov is in the exact same boat as Jaybo, Pitkaenen and Nash but as you stated, it is merely your opinion and since there aren't any facts that will support your opinion I can deal with that. We as humans like what we like.

    I want to agree with your last point as I think that Vrbata is a solid young player and that Neds *has* the skills to be one, I just think that he (neds) is still way too much of a gamble and if he doesn't pan out that leaves you with Vrbata, a player that isn't in the same catagory as Frolov as your pan out on the deal. Not close to worth it. That said, IF both of those turn out to be solid 2nd liners then of course the deal would favour the Kings. Its just that I couldn't see why the Kings would gamble when they have such a great young player in Frolov.
     
  15. Kev88

    Kev88 Registered User

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    Vrbata scored three goals yesterday so he showed that he can score, but he's missing consistency a little bit. Sure, He had a really good first season.
    GP G A Pts +/- PIM
    ----------------------
    Career: 152 40 36 76 0 42


    GP G A Pts +/- PIM
    ----------------------
    And I don't know if Nedorost will break. Career: 76 7 8 15 1 26


    GP G A Pts +/- PIM
    ----------------------
    Frolov: At Far Frolov is the best of Career:101 21 24 45 19 36
    these three players.
     
  16. Enoch

    Enoch This is my boomstick

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    The thing about Vrbata, that I have observed, is that he always seems to get bad luck, or bad bounces per se. He has great scoring oppurtunities, and usually puts the puck where he needs to, but it just doesn't go in for him :dunno: He loves to shoot the puck as well. I think Radim is a good player, and his odd-scoring funk will fade away as he continues to develop.

    Punchy1, if your right, your right. I was speaking from the 7 - 8 games that I caught on Center Ice. I may be wrong for the entire season.....but from the games I saw, he did get quality time. Again, from my observations, you were wrong. I still think, however, that he gets decent linemates, Chartrand, Klatt, Stumpel when healthy, occasionaly Palffy.

    The reason why I think Frolov has a lot to do before he can be considered elite, was his streaky season last year. If he wants to be elite, he needs to put an impressive season in the books. He has started that, so far, this season, but we all know that 24 games does not make a player.
     
  17. Vagrant

    Vagrant The Czech Condor

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    Radim Vrbata is the type of player that is going to break out really soon and it's not going to come as a surprise to those who have watched him with any regularity. He has the level of offensive creativity that is seen in the elite type scorers in this league. His stickhanding and hand-eye coardination are bar-none best on the Carolina Hurricanes, for what that is worth. He's like a minature Milan Hejduk right now and he's fast approaching that breakout year. I thought it was going to be this season but a few bad breaks might have set him back a little. Next year is going to disprove a lot of the doubts to his game. Maybe even the 2nd half of this season. Not to mention the fact that our lack of a true powerplay quarterback has forced the hand of Paul Maurice to play him on the point of the powerplay, thus snuffing any chances he would have to utilize that killer wrist shot down low with the man advantage.

    So far this season, Radim should have had at least 12 goals from my estimation but he has caught quite a few posts and quite a few very hot goaltenders. It has made his confidence ebb and flow in the early going. Last night was a really big game for Radim and I think he's going to have a few more like it this season and post his first 20 goal season. I honestly think Frolov is a great player, but he's NOT in the category of the Marian Hossa's the Gaboriks or the Kovalchuks of the league. Not even close if you ask me. I'd put Frolov in the 2nd tier of future stars with players like Havlat and Chistov.

    I haven't seen enough of Nederost to give a very accurate assesment of his ability or lack therof but if given the choice between Nederost/Vrbata or Frolov i'm going to take the combination of Nederost and Vrbata. I think Vrbata alone is going to one day equal the production of Frolov. Once Eric Staal matures and realizes the potential he has to be an elite playmaker, you're going to see Radim Vrbata on his wing for a very long time and I think that will be a match made in heaven here in Raleigh.
     
  18. LuckyLUC20

    LuckyLUC20 Registered User

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    Frolov started on the 1st line in the very beginning, but then got demoted to the 4th line where he put up some pretty good points. Only up to about 8 or so games ago is when he started playing on the top 2 lines... he's been playing with Brad Chartrand and Trent Klatt... not Ziggy. With Ziggy gone for now, he's still putting up some great points...
     
  19. LA Kings Rule

    LA Kings Rule Registered User

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    Frolov is better in the at both ends of the ice and if you watched any Kings games, you would have seen that as well. In my opinion Frolov is going to be a star two way player as for Vrbata he might end up being a decent goal scorer who dose a lot of floating. and Frolov in his 22 games probably has played half of those o the energy line i belive that he got put on the scoring line when stumple got injured.
     
  20. Vagrant

    Vagrant The Czech Condor

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    This is a very common misconception about Vrbata as well. While he is by no means a hardnosed physical force, he's not a floater. His game just simply doesn't call for him to beat the opposing forwards around in order to generate scoring chances for himself. He's not what I would call a rock on defense, but he's certainly not a cherry-picking floater.
     
  21. Blackshad

    Blackshad Registered User

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    I miss Vrbata. He was great in the junior :)
     
  22. andora

    andora Registered User

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    your choice could not be any wiser my friend
     
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