Value of: Vince Dunn

[Colt55]

Well it's nothing close to Cup run d-core. Too many weak points, too many which need to sheltered.

There is currently 3 dmen who can defend. Parayko, Scandella and Bortuzzo. I don't count Gunnar, 'cus he's questionmatk will he be healthy again? And I don't count Mikkola, 'cus God knows what he needs to done get icetime at Blues Jersey. He has been already NHL ready dmen for 1-year. Hope he'll get opportunity or trade him for prospect forward.

And it's crazy that I have to include Bortuzzo too, only tells how slim our d-core is. This team was built strong defensive system and it get it for us Stanley Cup. Not type of players like Faulk who needs to babysitter. Dunn goes same category,but at least he can improve/develope his game compare to Faulk. Dunn has years left, Faulk is what he's.

Krug is question mark, but he lived fully behind the one of the best NHL line, Marchand - Bergeron - Pastrnak. You can be limited by defensively behind those guys. We don't have that good 1st line like Boston.

You have to be pretty blindfolded if you think our d-core is anything close what it was.

It's not atrocious, but it isnt anything near as top10. Close to 15-20 range now or worse.

So

Krug parayko
Scandella faulk
Dunn bortuzzo

Mikola reinke gunner peronovich

Yes our defense has gotten worse, but we pretty much had one of the best defenses in the league. So the only place to go was down. Losing petro was a hit. We now have balance and I think with Faulk on his natural side you will see his game improve. In no way is this defense atrocious

 

[Colt55]

That doesn't change the fact he's only on the ice for ~25 minutes a game.

How much confidence do you have in a Scandella - Faulk pairing? Where would you rank them compared to other 2nd line pairings?

Scandela was great when he came back. You put his defensive ability with Faulk two way offensive game i think you will see good looks

 

[Mike Liut]

That doesn't change the fact he's only on the ice for ~25 minutes a game.

How much confidence do you have in a Scandella - Faulk pairing? Where would you rank them compared to other 2nd line pairings?

Very confident in that pairing. Faulk is going to silence his critics

 

[rumrokh]

I don't think it's that simple. Instead of being able to ince Parayko + Pietrangelo for ~45 minutes a night, you'll be icing Krug + Parayko together for ~25 minutes a night.

That's a huge difference. I wouldn't say the Blues defense is atrocious... but I don't think I'd even consider it top 10 anymore.

Krug and Parayko are unlikely to be welded together on a pairing. Parayko gets massive defensive minutes, Krug has never been used that way. Scandella looked very good with Parayko and will do a lot more heavy defensive lifting. Summarizing it this way sounds like an attempt at subtle analysis that doesn't actually extend beyond, "they swapped Pietrangelo for Krug." Cool, everybody knows.

 

[PAZ]

Krug and Parayko are unlikely to be welded together on a pairing. Parayko gets massive defensive minutes, Krug has never been used that way. Scandella looked very good with Parayko and will do a lot more heavy defensive lifting. Summarizing it this way sounds like an attempt at subtle analysis that doesn't actually extend beyond, "they swapped Pietrangelo for Krug." Cool, everybody knows.

Soo... what exactly would be the pairings when they aren't together?

Scandella - Parayko
Krug - Faulk
Dunn - Bortozzo?

Obviously certain situations like when defending leads it will be more mix and match, but a Krug - Faulk or Krug - Bortozzo pairing doesn't great even if it's for short periods of time.

The point being was that instead of having 2 elite two-way defenseman that you could ice for the majority game, the Blues now only have one. I don't think you need to do a lot of analysis to realize that's not great.

 

[simon IC]

Very confident in that pairing. Faulk is going to silence his critics

Yeah ... no he isn't. He will be better, certainly, how could he not be? But he isn't going to "wow" anyone.

 

[Colt55]

Yeah ... no he isn't. He will be better, certainly, how could he not be? But he isn't going to "wow" anyone.

I am hopeful he could return to Carolina playoffs faulk. Would be happy with that.

 

[Ranksu]

So

Krug parayko
Scandella faulk
Dunn bortuzzo

Mikola reinke gunner peronovich

Yes our defense has gotten worse, but we pretty much had one of the best defenses in the league. So the only place to go was down. Losing petro was a hit. We now have balance and I think with Faulk on his natural side you will see his game improve. In no way is this defense atrocious

So

you forgot our d-core group what bringed Cup?

Gunnar - Pietro
Jbo -  Parayko
Edmundson/Dunn - Bortuzzo

Gunnar played top2 and was healthy, he was absolutely amazing with Pietro. Jbo - Parayko taked toughest opponent and icetime and were NHL best shutdown d-pair by far. Edmunson had his weakness and blunders, but he did get switched with Dunn and Bortuzzo and other way.

Now you are forced to play them. There is no wiggle room and healthy scratch them if they aren't performing top level.

We don't have balance. Faulk played last regular season 3rd pair as his own side and it wasn't anything special. Even Pietro carrying him didn't help him. Stats say otherwise about Faulk's defense. It was all written to wall when he played in Carolina. When his icetime at powerplay dimished his point produce dropp heavily. I've writed in Blues board about it and compare his 5on5 produce.
I've compare Faulk to Shattenkirk. They are quite similar players. Weak at defensively and are good at blueliners and breath on PP icetime for producing. I've predicted already that Faulk will go same path. Blues will bought him out and Faulk will sign league min. in some other team. Produce there in 3rd pair decently, when he's sheltered. Sign somewhere near where Shattery did in Anaheim this off-season 3x3.9mill.$. Faulk has now 7x6.5mill.$ and he's producing 2.5mill.$-3.5mill.$ range now and even less in reality. Boy is paid double up what he's really worth.

and please don't name Perunovich or Reinke which both hasn't played single pro games in NHL level. Even Mikkola is questionmark, without how he did performed last regular season. Increased icetime etc. Mikkola could and should be Jbo replacement, not Scandella, but we'll see how good camp he'll bring.

but lets not get ahead of ourselfes. This d-core isn't anything near as good it was 1.5 year back. I would be really carefull to saying our d-core is top10.

 

[rumrokh]

Soo... what exactly would be the pairings when they aren't together?

Scandella - Parayko
Krug - Faulk
Dunn - Bortozzo?

Obviously certain situations like when defending leads it will be more mix and match, but a Krug - Faulk or Krug - Bortozzo pairing doesn't great even if it's for short periods of time.

I don't know what the pairings will be, but it's not a video game. Krug and Parayko have historically gotten basically reverse zone starts. They'll see the ice together, but unless the Blues' coaching staff suddenly goes buck friggin' wild, don't expect their usage to change much.

The point being was that instead of having 2 elite two-way defenseman that you could ice for the majority game, the Blues now only have one. I don't think you need to do a lot of analysis to realize that's not great.

That's exactly what I'm saying. You're the one saying it's not as simple as Krug in, Pietrangelo out, and attempting to substantiate that claim with speculative ice time/pairing alchemy.

 

[Colt55]

So

you forgot our d-core group what bringed Cup?

Gunnar - Pietro
Jbo -  Parayko
Edmundson/Dunn - Bortuzzo

Gunnar played top2 and was healthy, he was absolutely amazing with Pietro. Jbo - Parayko taked toughest opponent and icetime and were NHL best shutdown d-pair by far. Edmunson had his weakness and blunders, but he did get switched with Dunn and Bortuzzo and other way.

Now you are forced to play them. There is no wiggle room and healthy scratch them if they aren't performing top level.

We don't have balance. Faulk played last regular season 3rd pair as his own side and it wasn't anything special. Even Pietro carrying him didn't help him. Stats say otherwise about Faulk's defense. It was all written to wall when he played in Carolina. When his icetime at powerplay dimished his point produce dropp heavily. I've writed in Blues board about it and compare his 5on5 produce.
I've compare Faulk to Shattenkirk. They are quite similar players. Weak at defensively and are good at blueliners and breath on PP icetime for producing. I've predicted already that Faulk will go same path. Blues will bought him out and Faulk will sign league min. in some other team. Produce there in 3rd pair decently, when he's sheltered. Sign somewhere near where Shattery did in Anaheim this off-season 3x3.9mill.$. Faulk has now 7x6.5mill.$ and he's producing 2.5mill.$-3.5mill.$ range now and even less in reality. Boy is paid double up what he's really worth.

and please don't name Perunovich or Reinke which both hasn't played single pro games in NHL level. Even Mikkola is questionmark, without how he did performed last regular season. Increased icetime etc. Mikkola could and should be Jbo replacement, not Scandella, but we'll see how good camp he'll bring.

but lets not get ahead of ourselfes. This d-core isn't anything near as good it was 1.5 year back. I would be really carefull to saying our d-core is top10.

I'm pretty sure I never said they were. It us what it is and I think we will see them out perform expectations which currently seems yo be pretty low.

 

[themelkman]

How are the blues getting under cap? Im curious because they havent signed Dunn and they cant really without being very over

 

[Beauterham]

How are the blues getting under cap? Im curious because they havent signed Dunn and they cant really without being very over

LTIR Steen and Tarasenko. According to Army we have more than enough capspace available. We would even have enough cap to sign another forward. Blues were rumored to be interested in Hoffman.

 

[themelkman]

LTIR Steen and Tarasenko. According to Army we have more than enough capspace available. We would even have enough cap to sign another forward. Blues were rumored to be interested in Hoffman.

Are they both out for the year? Not sure where the capspace comes from if they come back

 

[Beauterham]

Are they both out for the year? Not sure where the capspace comes from if they come back

No official answer from the team yet, but Army did say "there is an abundance of capspace". He wouldn't make a statement like that if they expect both Steen and Tarasenko to return during regular season. Steen has been rumored to undergo career ending surgery, so he's probably done. That alone will free up 5.75 milion. Tarasenko would, at least, miss a large chunk of the season, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Blues keep him on LTIR untill the playoffs start. If they do so they have more then enough capspace to sign both Dunn and a free agent like Mike Hoffman.

 

[themelkman]

No official answer from the team yet, but Army did say "there is an abundance of capspace". He wouldn't make a statement like that if they expect both Steen and Tarasenko to return during regular season. Steen has been rumored to undergo career ending surgery, so he's probably done. That alone will free up 5.75 milion. Tarasenko would, at least, miss a large chunk of the season, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Blues keep him on LTIR untill the playoffs start. If they do so they have more then enough capspace to sign both Dunn and a free agent like Mike Hoffman.

Fair enough. Have to think they would perfer Tarasenko in, because he really helps the odds of making those playoffs in such a weird year where they might be playing in a whole new division.

 

[67Blues]

Fair enough. Have to think they would perfer Tarasenko in, because he really helps the odds of making those playoffs in such a weird year where they might be playing in a whole new division.

Steen on LTIR alone will cover Dunn and put $2m+ in cap reserves. Tarasenko comes back when he is ready.

 

[SwivelSchwartz]

Are they both out for the year? Not sure where the capspace comes from if they come back

No one knows for sure. With this being Tarasenkos 3rd surgery on the same shoulder, no reason to rush him until he’s 100%. Plus both steen and Bozaks NTC will expire before either come back.

 

[Bluesguru]

Dunn looks to be the odd man out with the Krug signing and with other prospects in the system.

There was a lot of talk about Dunn on this board leading up the the draft that ended up not materializing in a trade.

Now that the draft has come and gone and the squeeze that is occurring league-wide from COVID, what does the trade market look like?

I see him getting dealt for a defense first minded defenseman. Blues could use 1 more in that rotation.

 

[rumrokh]

I see him getting dealt for a defense first minded defenseman. Blues could use 1 more in that rotation.

Parayko, Scandella, Bortuzzo, Gunnarsson? Plus, their likeliest youngster, Mikkola. If the Blues replaced Dunn with a d-first guy, he had better be outstanding, because then you're left with only Krug and Faulk for offensive options.

The Blues can't lose a puck-control player like Pietrangelo and then move Dunn for a defensive d-man unless Scandella or Parayko get hurt long term.

 

[Bluesguru]

Parayko, Scandella, Bortuzzo, Gunnarsson? Plus, their likeliest youngster, Mikkola. If the Blues replaced Dunn with a d-first guy, he had better be outstanding, because then you're left with only Krug and Faulk for offensive options.

The Blues can't lose a puck-control player like Pietrangelo and then move Dunn for a defensive d-man unless Scandella or Parayko get hurt long term.

Well there’s 2 factors. How ready is Perunovich and will there be a leak with the current group as constructed? I think those 2 things will factor what the Blues do.

 

[rumrokh]

Well there’s 2 factors. How ready is Perunovich and will there be a leak with the current group as constructed? I think those 2 things will factor what the Blues do.

Why do you think Perunovich can even come close to replacing Dunn in the coming season? And if you put him in the lineup, where is the guy you received for Dunn playing? Shipping out Bortuzzo or Gunnarsson? Two more defenseman trades is very unlikely. I think it's considerably likelier Mikkola will be ready for impact minutes that will help shore up their defensive performance.

I assume by "a leak," you mean they simply aren't good enough to contend. I think the roster, as constructed, will likely need to make a move. But it's a trade deadline upgrade to Bortuzzo/Gunnarsson kind of a move rather than swapping Dunn for a d-first player.

 

[TK 421]

Futures auction for Dunn. Can I get 2 2nds?