GDT: VGK @ Wings

[dragonballgtz]

We seem to keep mentioning all these things Blashill should be doing...

I get the distinct impression he is simply a dog-whistle for all complaints.

If he took our 2009 team to last place... ya he sucks...
but does anyone think we are a playoff team? (i.e. I dont think Blash is a very big factor)

Are we a playoff team? No. Have players regressed once he took over? Yes.

Players have looked lost out there and, IMO, he cannot get the best out of his players or use them effectively.

 

[SoupGuru]

How many games will Green be benched for his lazy uninspired play?

I am 100% behind getting him out of town or at the very least, benching his ass. You're barking up the wrong tree with that.

 

[Redder Winger]

As much as you may think our vets are garbage Redder.

Abby is still a good player. Signed too long, but for his salary he has produced just fine this year.
Nielsen has also done well.

Helm is a disappointment.
Glendening is our FOW guy. He seems to be overplayed if you don't care for that 4th line role (which few do).

I don't think they're garbage. I think they're glorified 4th liners who are being paid like 2nd liners and 3rd liners.

What the f*** are we doing?

Why is AA playing 12 minutes?
7 straight games now under 15 minutes.

Again - when he's playing 18 minutes or more.

14 games 9 goals 8 assists 17 points +6
Red Wings record those games: 8-4-2.

Here's AA's stats in his bottom 14 icetime games. (the cut off is 13:30)
14 games 0 goal 4 assists 4 points. -8

Here's the team's record
Hi TOI- 8-4-2
Low TOI- 4-6-4

I'm pretty sure AA only gets played when Holland is showcasing him for a trade.
Kind of like Mrazek at the end of the season.

If it was up the Blashill, I'm pretty sure AA would be on another team.

People will say, "Oh wow, Blash plays him more when he plays well, and benches him when he doesn't."
But that's bullshit.
AA's got no rope. He'll be hot for 3-4 games. Then boom, one off game, and he's back to 14 minutes.
Check his game log.
Andreas Athanasiou 2017-18 Game Log | Hockey-Reference.com

I wanted to see other players have the same sort of dynamic.

Here are Mantha's top 14 games (19:06 is the cut off)
14 games 9G 6A 15 points -3
Bottom 14 (15:13 is the cut off)
14 gamees 4G 5A 9 points +3

Mantha is pretty productive in lower icetime games.
On the other hand, his lowest TOI of the season is 12:33 and he's only been below 13 minutes twice.

In terms of wins and loses, in Mantha's.
HI TOI --- 3-9-2
Lo TOI -- 8-5-1


So how about Larkin.
Hi TOI - 3-11-14 +9
Lo TOI - 1-9-10 -6
Not much of a production difference, but a big +/- swing

Larkin team record
Hi TOI - 7-3-4
Lo TOI - 6-8-0

Just for kicks, Zetterberg
Hi TOI - 3G-8-11 -1
Lo TOI - 2-10-12 +9

Zetterberg's production and plus minus are better when he plays less (Less being relative. His 14th lowest is 18:03)

Record wise
Hi TOI - 7-4-3
Lo TOI - 9-4-1

The team does a little better when Z's TOI is on the lower end of the scale.

 

[Redder Winger]

One more thing about Zetterberg.

Isn't that criticism a little tough considering what Kronwall did on the first goal?

 

[BinCookin]

I mean to be fair... 18+ minutes is the top line on most teams. I am not sure AA is our 1st, 2nd or 3rd best player.

 

[BinCookin]

Are we a playoff team? No. Have players regressed once he took over? Yes.

Players have looked lost out there and, IMO, he cannot get the best out of his players or use them effectively.

I think everyone's personal stats go down on crappy last place-ish teams.

Detroit has been getting worse, so players who were on the team 3 years ago look worse.

 

[SoupGuru]

I don't think they're garbage. I think they're glorified 4th liners who are being paid like 2nd liners and 3rd liners.

What the **** are we doing?

Why is AA playing 12 minutes?
7 straight games now under 15 minutes.

Again - when he's playing 18 minutes or more.

14 games 9 goals 8 assists 17 points +6
Red Wings record those games: 8-4-2.

Here's AA's stats in his bottom 14 icetime games. (the cut off is 13:30)
14 games 0 goal 4 assists 4 points. -8

Here's the team's record
Hi TOI- 8-4-2
Low TOI- 4-6-4

I'm pretty sure AA only gets played when Holland is showcasing him for a trade.
Kind of like Mrazek at the end of the season.

If it was up the Blashill, I'm pretty sure AA would be on another team.

People will say, "Oh wow, Blash plays him more when he plays well, and benches him when he doesn't."
But that's bull****.
AA's got no rope. He'll be hot for 3-4 games. Then boom, one off game, and he's back to 14 minutes.
Check his game log.
Andreas Athanasiou 2017-18 Game Log | Hockey-Reference.com

I wanted to see other players have the same sort of dynamic.

Here are Mantha's top 14 games (19:06 is the cut off)
14 games 9G 6A 15 points -3
Bottom 14 (15:13 is the cut off)
14 gamees 4G 5A 9 points +3

Mantha is pretty productive in lower icetime games.
On the other hand, his lowest TOI of the season is 12:33 and he's only been below 13 minutes twice.

In terms of wins and loses, in Mantha's.
HI TOI --- 3-9-2
Lo TOI -- 8-5-1


So how about Larkin.
Hi TOI - 3-11-14 +9
Lo TOI - 1-9-10 -6
Not much of a production difference, but a big +/- swing

Larkin team record
Hi TOI - 7-3-4
Lo TOI - 6-8-0

Just for kicks, Zetterberg
Hi TOI - 3G-8-11 -1
Lo TOI - 2-10-12 +9

Zetterberg's production and plus minus are better when he plays less (Less being relative. His 14th lowest is 18:03)

Record wise
Hi TOI - 7-4-3
Lo TOI - 9-4-1

The team does a little better when Z's TOI is on the lower end of the scale.

Because when you play a GAME for a living and get paid well to do it and when you play for my Red Wings, you don't get to phone that shit in. You come out and compete. You're allowed to suck occasionally but you're not allowed to coast. You've got the greatest honor on earth - to play for the Red Wings - and you're disgracing the crest on the jersey by floating around like you don't care.

I'm sorry you can't see that. If you disgrace the uniform, you don't get to play as much.

Look at Jensen. The guy is totally out of his element, takes about 10 bone-crushing hits a game, and falls over about 5 times per shift but he COMPETES. Put that engine in Mantha or AA and we could win Stanley Cups.

But instead, let's float past our assignments and hope that Jensen can pull our slack to keep the puck out.

 

[HIFE]

You guys assume Z is going after Mantha in particular. I don't see it that way.

I see Mantha / AA / Larkin all reaching for pucks. trying to dance around people. AA and Larkin try to skate on a good angle, and sometimes it works well... and sometimes they gget beat clean.

Mantha's turnover was unfortunate.

But Green's change made that play look really really bad.

I was watching Svechnikov today... and jeez he was out of position by like 15 feet on many many plays. that 4th goal, i saw him just standing there in a horrible spot, allowing that guy to just ruin us.

Goal 2 and 4 were so bad.. that is why Z and Abby are upset. But also alot of the young guys (all the good ones) are poking at the puck sometimes. And they are right, they are exposing themselves.

I heard every word of that PG and you have something there Bin. Larkin and Athanasiou are just as guilty of soft coverage; especially Larkin has been burnt in multiple games recently. You've got to play the body- that goes for Bertuzzi as well. Z may have been calling out all the young guys, not just Mantha in particular.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Another great loss. I’m really impressed by Blashill lately, he’s playing things right tanking wise. A few more starts by Coreau and maybe bringing up more kids that aren’t ready and bottom 5 is a real possibility.

 

[Winger98]

I think everyone's personal stats go down on crappy last place-ish teams.

Detroit has been getting worse, so players who were on the team 3 years ago look worse.

We saw noticeable production losses just between Babcock's last season and Blashill's first. We chalked it up to changing systems, etc. but we've seen that statistical slide continue. At some point Detroit getting worse is at least partly on Blashill.

 

[TheOtherOne]

Can't they just look back at the #2 PP they had a few years ago and take notes?

I understand the personnel is a bit different but there are plays that our players simply aren't aware of. Two players - net front and between the dots - aren't even being utilized.

It's simply bad coaching and, for one reason or another, management is choosing to be blind to the situation.

What would those notes look like?

"Complete passes
Shots through to net
Don't lose puck
Don't fall over
Don't stand still
Don't f*** up"

 

[izlez]

Ill have to look back at goal 3 to see Mantha's blatant mistake

Be sure to check out Svechnikov's awesome defensive strategy on that goal too.

 

[Winger98]

about the ice time numbers, not sure why Blashill isn't just playing the young guys more. The season is toast. Trying to eek out closer games by rolling our vets over the boards more often is a lost cause. Give Bert, Mantha, AA, and Svech at least 15 minutes a night and just go with it.

 

[Filppula]

about the ice time numbers, not sure why Blashill isn't just playing the young guys more. The season is toast. Trying to eek out closer games by rolling our vets over the boards more often is a lost cause. Give Bert, Mantha, AA, and Svech at least 15 minutes a night and just go with it.

Everyone wants this. Yet it just won't happen.

Blash needs to go, my goodness.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

about the ice time numbers, not sure why Blashill isn't just playing the young guys more. The season is toast. Trying to eek out closer games by rolling our vets over the boards more often is a lost cause. Give Bert, Mantha, AA, and Svech at least 15 minutes a night and just go with it.

My guess is Blashill needs to think about what he says in the post-season interview and/or interviews for his next job.

Selling I let the young guys be entitled to ice time they didn't earn isn't at the top of his list of things to do.

I understand the idea. But last night it really was a lot of the young guys not showing up really at all. The team was bad but they aren't wrong that the young bucks stood out in a really bad way. They were awful, even Larkin who was okay for the first half the game seemed to quit like the rest of the team by the end of the second. Mantha and AA were embarrassing no shows, this isn't made up or unjust punishment at least not this time in my opinion.

I mean he did play Mantha 17+ minutes last night despite his crappy effort.

 

[Winger98]

My guess is Blashill needs to think about what he says in the post-season interview and/or interviews for his next job.

Selling I let the young guys be entitled to ice time they didn't earn isn't at the top of his list of things to do.

I understand the idea. But last night it really was a lot of the young guys not showing up really at all. The team was bad but they aren't wrong that the young bucks stood out in a really bad way. They were awful, even Larkin who was okay for the first half the game seemed to quit like the rest of the team by the end of the second. Mantha and AA were embarrassing no shows, this isn't made up or unjust punishment at least not this time in my opinion.

I mean he did play Mantha 17+ minutes last night despite his crappy effort.

You sell it as auditioning players for the following season. Everyone knows what they are getting from the vets, but this is the opportunity for kids to cement prominent roles on next season's team. A number of them have been shielded throughout the season but not it's time to put them out there a bit and let them try to run with it.

At some point I think the more we shield guys and find excuses to not lean on them and to expect less from them the less they will deliver.

 

[Flowah]

My guess is Blashill needs to think about what he says in the post-season interview and/or interviews for his next job.

Selling I let the young guys be entitled to ice time they didn't earn isn't at the top of his list of things to do.

He could do it if his GM gave him some cover. "Holland told me to prioritize development and getting the young players some ice over trying to squeak out a few wins with the veterans."

 

[izlez]

My god this website has a weird website for young players.

Every time we add more kids, we get worse. That's no coincidence, and the only response is we need more kids playing more.

The kids can learn in practice. They can learn in the AHL. They can learn in the ice time they do get. If they don't help us win NHL hockey games, they don't get NHL ice time. I don't get why that is such a foreign concept around here

 

[Winger98]

no one is helping us win.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

My god this website has a weird website for young players.

Every time we add more kids, we get worse. That's no coincidence, and the only response is we need more kids playing more.

The kids can learn in practice. They can learn in the AHL. They can learn in the ice time they do get. If they don't help us win NHL hockey games, they don't get NHL ice time. I don't get why that is such a foreign concept around here

This is horribly simplistic.

 

[Datsyukian Deke]

I don't think they're garbage. I think they're glorified 4th liners who are being paid like 2nd liners and 3rd liners.

What the **** are we doing?

Why is AA playing 12 minutes?
7 straight games now under 15 minutes.

Again - when he's playing 18 minutes or more.

I'm pretty sure AA only gets played when Holland is showcasing him for a trade.
Kind of like Mrazek at the end of the season.

If it was up the Blashill, I'm pretty sure AA would be on another team.

People will say, "Oh wow, Blash plays him more when he plays well, and benches him when he doesn't."
But that's bull****.
AA's got no rope. He'll be hot for 3-4 games. Then boom, one off game, and he's back to 14 minutes.
Check his game log.
Andreas Athanasiou 2017-18 Game Log | Hockey-Reference.com

The team does a little better when Z's TOI is on the lower end of the scale.

Long story short, Blashill is a moron who has been well over his head ever since he became an NHL Coach.

This season can't end quick enough for both Holland & Blashill to be nowhere near this organization any longer.

 

[jkutswings]

I think the lack of success has reached a point where Blashill is in a no-win situation:

If he keeps playing the vets, the kids don't learn as much, and have a legit beef with guys like Green not getting benched after a lack of effort.

If he commits to leaning on the kids, the vets that are still working hard (like Z) have a legit beef about Mantha or AA not getting benched after a lack of effort.

For how important we were told that the veteran presence was to mentor people and maintain the culture, I think they're close to having things completely crumble in that locker room. Which would definitely mean Blashill is in trouble.

 

[Frk It]

My god this website has a weird website for young players.

HF stands for Hockeys Future

It's about as weird as there being things for sale on Amazon

 

[Run the Jewels]

I've been pleased with Blashill. I realized the talent on this team was largely overpaid and mediocre and I felt confident Blashill would help the team tank. As a result I have been fine with him being the final coach of the Holland era. I would have preferred Holland be more aggressive in playing younger players and less aggressive in signing his vets to awful, crippling contacts but at the end of the day it all worked out pretty much as I expected: we are one of the 5 worst teams in the league. We'll easily go 10 years without winning a single playoff round.

Send Holland on his way and thank him for all he's done. Hire a new GM and let the rebuild begin. I'm confident Blashill will not be the coach once this team eventually gets serious about being competitive. Until then he's doing exactly what will help this team stockpile high draft picks.

 

[Redder Winger]

I mean to be fair... 18+ minutes is the top line on most teams. I am not sure AA is our 1st, 2nd or 3rd best player.

I am pretty sure he's one of our best young forwards.
Playing him 12 minutes? When you're out of the playoffs?
f***, if my job was on the line I'd be playing Z, Larkin, Martha and AA 18 minutes a night, easy.
This team is better when AA is going. The more he plays, the more he goes. And vice versa.