Very Early Redraft

elitepete

Registered User
Jan 30, 2017
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Vancouver
1. Hischier
2. Patrick
3. Heiskanen
4. Petterson
5. Vilardi
6. Glass
7. Makar
8. Tolvanen
9. Thomas
10. Necas
11. Liljegren
12. Kostin
13. Suzuki
14. Andersson
15. Foote
 

93LEAFS

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Nov 7, 2009
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On a serious note, this draft looks way more impressive than the "experts" on here thought.
It has one player making an impact in the NHL (Hischier). I don't really see how it has changed the narrative. It's still notably weaker than 2016, 2015 and 2013. Just because its a bad draft doesn't mean it won't have guys who excel. Even 2012 had guys like Yakupov and Galchenyuk looking good in the league in their D+1.
 

TheFinnishTrap

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Apr 10, 2012
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On a serious note, this draft looks way more impressive than the "experts" on here thought.
Yep, Hischier is doing really well in the NHL, and many others been great as well in their leagues. Seems like the lack of a super-hyped prospect at the top might have caused the rest of the draft being a bit underrated. On the other hand, many prospects are also doing better than many might have expected.
 

NJ DevLolz

The Many Saints of Newark
Sep 30, 2017
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Patrick is back on the ice (in non-contract drills), I wouldn't call that a major concussion. In a less cautious era he's probably back on the ice, let's not act like he's Clarke MacArthur.

Outside of the case of Tolvanen, I don't think enough has really transpired yet to dramatically change how you viewed the draft back in June. I had the draft as



As of now, the only major change would be putting Tolvanen somewhere in my top 10. I'd knock Villardi back a bit, as the injury concerns are adding up. Might bump Yamamoto up a bit, and the same with Chytil. But outside of that, I can't really think of anything that has happened to make me dramatically alter how I viewed the draft 5 months ago. I'd probably drop Ratcliffe For most of these guys all we've added is a summer showcase tournament and 20 or so regular season games. The only person who has so exceeded where I had them in June, that I feel they've earned a significant bump is Tolvanen. Outside of Vilardi, who has been injured, pretty much all the top 15 are performing how I'd expect them to. Some are doing slightly better or slightly worse, but over 15 games its hard to tell if that is just random variation or longstanding changes.
He still isn't practicing 15 days after the hit. It certainly isn't minor
 

Lays

Registered User
Jan 22, 2017
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1. Hischier
2. Patrick
3. Heiskanen
4. Petterson
5. Vilardi
6. Glass
7. Makar
8. Tolvanen
9. Thomas
10. Necas
11. Liljegren
12. Kostin
13. Suzuki
14. Andersson
15. Foote
Chytil? I have him rated around 6 and above Lias.
 

Parliament

Registered User
Jul 15, 2014
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Chytil? I have him rated around 6 and above Lias.

x2

Very surprised Chytil isn't in the top 10 for so many of these lists.

I won't pretend as if I'm watching how all the other top prospects are doing, or that I know what I'm talking about (haha), but Chytil just turned 18 in September and is off to an unreal start in the AHL; 9 points (3g 6a) in his first 8 games. As of right now this seems like quite the bargain for a guy picked 21st OA.

To me, in terms of league difficulty/player development, the start of Chytil's year is much more impressive in comparison to a player like Casey Mittelstadt. Casey's doing great things too, don't get me wrong, it's just NCAA div 1 hockey doesn't compare to AHL.

Again, just my $.02, but Chytil needs to be in the conversation for top 10 in a redraft. If you take team needs into consideration, I'd say he would be grabbed by either Vegas, NYR, Buffalo or Detroit - so somewhere in the 6 to 9 range.
 
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BB88

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Jan 19, 2015
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Not surprised that the Finnish contingent has found themselves another savior.

Player who dominates a pro league as a 18y D-man should get attention, no matter which country he plays for.
Again, not just playing well, but dominating in 3 zones as a 18y.
 

LeafChief

Matthew Knies Enthusiast
Mar 5, 2013
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What do you disagree with? That Heiskanen should be in this discussion? I think trying to agitate a certain group of posters by calling them "angry" and "white knights" because they give arguments for a prospect they follow is textbook trolling. You add nothing to the discussion, you are only fishing for a reaction.

Also, yeah? There are homers on HFBoards. If you want, you can ignore them, or troll them directly rather than insulting the whole group.
It's just comical to see the 2-3 of you come in here and defend him like he's your first born child.

Where are all of the Puljujarvi threads these days?
 

LeafChief

Matthew Knies Enthusiast
Mar 5, 2013
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Not surprised that the Finnish contingent has found themselves another savior.
No kidding.

Heiskanen is a talent, no doubt but the way these posters bombard their way in here to defend his honour as if he has been disrespected to the hundredth degree is as amusing as it gets.
 

93LEAFS

Registered User
Nov 7, 2009
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x2

Very surprised Chytil isn't in the top 10 for so many of these lists.

I won't pretend as if I'm watching how all the other top prospects are doing, or that I know what I'm talking about (haha), but Chytil just turned 18 in September and is off to an unreal start in the AHL; 9 points (3g 6a) in his first 8 games. As of right now this seems like quite the bargain for a guy picked 21st OA.

To me, in terms of league difficulty/player development, the start of Chytil's year is much more impressive in comparison to a player like Casey Mittelstadt. Casey's doing great things too, don't get me wrong, it's just NCAA div 1 hockey doesn't compare to AHL.

Again, just my $.02, but Chytil needs to be in the conversation for top 10 in a redraft. If you take team needs into consideration, I'd say he would be grabbed by either Vegas, NYR, Buffalo or Detroit - so somewhere in the 6 to 9 range.
Its 8 games, you don't overreact to 8 games and training camp. Its also not like other guys drafted before him have given them major reason to drop them. The only guy drafted in the first round who has given people serious reasons to re-evaluate their stock is Tolvanen, and that's because he's played 27 games at a level almost unheard of in that league.

I mean, Chytil could be bumped up, but the same type of argument could be made for Liljegren. Guys like Suzuki, Robert Thomas, and Glass are dominating their respective leagues. Outside of Vilardi, I don't really see the argument to knock anyone down, and Vilardi is purely based on continual injury issues.
 

TheFinnishTrap

Registered User
Apr 10, 2012
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It's just comical to see the 2-3 of you come in here and defend him like he's your first born child.

Where are all of the Puljujarvi threads these days?

No kidding.

Heiskanen is a talent, no doubt but the way these posters bombard their way in here to defend his honour as if he has been disrespected to the hundredth degree is as amusing as it gets.

I doubt this is anywhere near the worst you have seen during your time here. Besides, is there a reason for you to target only one side? The whole Pettersson-Heiskanen "fight" that I assume you are referencing had both sides going off the rails with some weak arguments, but I think that just shows that they are too close to rank relative to each other. That seems to also be the conclusion most have reached here.

Also, there is a Puljujärvi thread on the first page of this prospects forum. If you want to discuss him, you are free to visit that thread, I don't think he needs multiple ones.
 

ijuka

Registered User
May 14, 2016
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What I find curious is why people are so quick to try and downplay what Heiskanen has been doing thus far. I guess it really is about Stars not really having a fanbase on this forum? I guess I do need to reiterate that players just don't play like that at such an age in a professional men's league unless they're supremely talented - much less defensemen who tend to take longer to develop.
 
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Elias Pettersson

I'm not a troll
Jan 22, 2014
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lol at people who don't have mittlestatd in their top 5
Mittlestadt has done nothing to prove he belongs more than top 10. He's only point per game in the EASIEST division in the NCAA. That's not great. For example, look at the 2015 draft. Kyle Connor, Colin White, AND Brock Boeser all scored more than point per game (and in Connor/Boeser's case, WAY more). All of them were drafted way past top 10.
 
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LeafChief

Matthew Knies Enthusiast
Mar 5, 2013
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Mittlestadt has done nothing to prove he belongs more than top 10. He's only point per game in the EASIEST division in the NCAA. That's not great. For example, look at the 2015 draft. Kyle Connor, Colin White, AND Brock Boeser all scored more than point per game (and in Connor/Boeser's case, WAY more). All of them were drafted way past top 10.
PPG as a rookie in the NCAA is no good now.

This thread is SIZZLING with hot takes.
 
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Elias Pettersson

I'm not a troll
Jan 22, 2014
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PPG as a rookie in the NCAA is no good now.

This thread is SIZZLING with hot takes.
Or maybe learn to use context? The guy I was replying to said Mittlestadt was a top 5 in a redraft. PPG in NCAA is good if you're not expected to do well. A top 5 talent should score WAY above PPG in NCAA, especially if he plays in Big-10 division. Clayton Keller is actually a top 5 talent and proved that with his stats. I also provided 3 examples from 2015 of guys drafted 17th, 21st, and 23rd who produced more than Mittlestadt and none of them are considered top 5 talents in their draft year.
Hell, even Tyson Jost scored above PPG last year in a much tougher division and no one considers him a top 5 talent.
Mittlestadt is meeting expectations so far. He's not exceeding anything.
 

Fantomas

Registered User
Aug 7, 2012
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It has one player making an impact in the NHL (Hischier). I don't really see how it has changed the narrative. It's still notably weaker than 2016, 2015 and 2013. Just because its a bad draft doesn't mean it won't have guys who excel. Even 2012 had guys like Yakupov and Galchenyuk looking good in the league in their D+1.

A very conservative retort. I disagree. Tolvanen and Chytil are two guys doing great things at the pro level. This draft appears to have been underrated.

Also 8 games + training camp is a significant amount of hockey. Teams make crucial decisions on draft day with less amount of scouting.
 
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LeafChief

Matthew Knies Enthusiast
Mar 5, 2013
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Or maybe learn to use context? The guy I was replying to said Mittlestadt was a top 5 in a redraft. PPG in NCAA is good if you're not expected to do well. A top 5 talent should score WAY above PPG in NCAA, especially if he plays in Big-10 division. Clayton Keller is actually a top 5 talent and proved that with his stats. I also provided 3 examples from 2015 of guys drafted 17th, 21st, and 23rd who produced more than Mittlestadt and none of them are considered top 5 talents in their draft year.
Hell, even Tyson Jost scored above PPG last year in a much tougher division and no one considers him a top 5 talent.
Mittlestadt is meeting expectations so far. He's not exceeding anything.
?
 

93LEAFS

Registered User
Nov 7, 2009
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Toronto
A very conservative retort. I disagree. Tolvanen and Chytil are two guys doing great things at the pro level. This draft appears to have been underrated.

Also 8 games + training camp is a significant amount of hockey. Teams make crucial decisions on draft day with less amount of scouting.
Teams generally have 2 to 3 years worth of scouting on people by draft date. No team, except for a poorly managed team makes decisions based on less at draft day. Teams won't even rank a guy if they have less than 20 "in-game" reports from live scouting on a guy. Most guys (especially CHL guys) will have closer to a 100 over a 2 year span.

Chytil has played 8 games, maybe slow down the hype train a bit. It's 8 games. Tolvanen, fine, he's proven it over close to 30. But, I don't think the tiny bit of this season has changed the narrative of this draft. People are just happy/optimistic about their picks so they are telling themselves it was better than written about before their team had actually made selections. Last years draft had 3 guys making an impact at the NHL level at this point, 2015 had two guys making amazing impacts at the NHL level, a plus a young defender getting decent NHL minutes. 2014 just had Ekblad (and later on Pastrnak), but 2013 had 5 guys getting solid minutes. This year has two guys who will get top 9 minutes, one who is currently injured. Everyone else has been sent back down. I know that isn't a perfect measurement, but I feel most recent drafts if looked at, at the same stage would be doing noticeably better. Plus, in general, all drafts tend to be equal after pick 10.

A draft is obviously going to produce some good players, no draft is completely bereft of them. So, I don't really see how a small sample can really drastically change opinions.
 

Breakers

Make Mirrored Visors Legal Again
Aug 5, 2014
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Denver Colorado
Mittlestadt has done nothing to prove he belongs more than top 10. He's only point per game in the EASIEST division in the NCAA. That's not great. For example, look at the 2015 draft. Kyle Connor, Colin White, AND Brock Boeser all scored more than point per game (and in Connor/Boeser's case, WAY more). All of them were drafted way past top 10.

One thing you have to understand about College Hockey is it is incredibly cyclical.

When Kyle Connor was in the Big 10 it was a TRASH conference, and he had an easy schedule.
The big 10 this year is good. They have the 2nd highest winning percentage behind the NCHC

5 of the 7 teams are nationally ranked in the top 25
Mittlestadt has had a tough schedule and they are 7-3 and thats why they are ranked in the top 5.

Mittlestadt has played great.
 

firstemperor

Registered User
May 25, 2011
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Mittlestadt has done nothing to prove he belongs more than top 10. He's only point per game in the EASIEST division in the NCAA. That's not great. For example, look at the 2015 draft. Kyle Connor, Colin White, AND Brock Boeser all scored more than point per game (and in Connor/Boeser's case, WAY more). All of them were drafted way past top 10.

He's been PPG in the NCAA. How can you use that against him? He was one of the more underwhelming combine players as well, which indicates (just like Pettersson)- he at least has some upside in terms of physical maturity.

And he was lights out at the WJSS. Showed off an array of tools, dynamic, was probably one of the more impressive prospects that played.

Too early to say he hasn't been great or bad. His stock is around the same as it what during draft time. Others have taken a hit but not Casey.
 

letsgrowcactus

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Jan 21, 2017
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Its 8 games, you don't overreact to 8 games and training camp. Its also not like other guys drafted before him have given them major reason to drop them. The only guy drafted in the first round who has given people serious reasons to re-evaluate their stock is Tolvanen, and that's because he's played 27 games at a level almost unheard of in that league.

I mean, Chytil could be bumped up, but the same type of argument could be made for Liljegren. Guys like Suzuki, Robert Thomas, and Glass are dominating their respective leagues. Outside of Vilardi, I don't really see the argument to knock anyone down, and Vilardi is purely based on continual injury issues.
Chytil was one of the youngest players in the draft, his stock rose a LOT over the last year and he was undoubtedly underscouted because playing lesser minutes in Extraliga. He was the youngest player to appear in the NHL since 1974 and now is doing very well in the AHL. I mean, I agree redrafting players so soon is essentially crazy, but if we're doing this, then he should go higher than 21.
Tolvanen dropping so much was really weird (though I don't think anyone expected this kind of production. Even if he slows down a bit...wow).
 

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