Vegas Golden Knights

[Shaman464]

Regardless whether they win it all or get bounced in the WCF, I am sticking to my thought ever since this whole hot season started, they are one hit wonder, where everything this season has worked for them and everything just came together. I think next year, is going to be a huge dose of reality of where they really sit talent wise, and will translate in the standings.

I see them as a team finishing 5-8th next season, but could be higher if they make a splash this summer. They are still good, they still have money to spend (24 million) and can easily attract top end talent from free agency to sign with them.

 

[SoupGuru]

The only way you can be successful in this league is with superstar talent. Skill beats will. The best game plan in the world is useless if you don't have the skill to run it.

BS

AA and Mantha wouldn't be welcome on the Vegas roster right now as they play in the conference finals.

 

[Go Wings]

The only way you can be successful in this league is with superstar talent. Skill beats will. The best game plan in the world is useless if you don't have the skill to run it.

BS

AA and Mantha wouldn't be welcome on the Vegas roster right now as they play in the conference finals.

Really? I think I would rather have Mantha over Tatar. Stop trying to pretend Vegas has an amazing group of forwards where a 24 goal scorer wouldn't play.

 

[SoupGuru]

Really? I think I would rather have Mantha over Tatar. Stop trying to pretend Vegas has an amazing group of forwards where a 24 goal scorer wouldn't play.

I'm not pretending they have an amazing group of forwards. In fact, I think the opposite. They've got a bunch of average guys that bought into a system and compete HARD.

 

[njx9]

I'm not pretending they have an amazing group of forwards. In fact, I think the opposite. They've got a bunch of average guys that bought into a system and compete HARD.

And, of course, an underdog, never-been-anything goalie with a .945 save percentage. But it's probably nothing but hustle.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

The only way you can be successful in this league is with superstar talent. Skill beats will. The best game plan in the world is useless if you don't have the skill to run it.

BS

AA and Mantha wouldn't be welcome on the Vegas roster right now as they play in the conference finals.

I have a question: do you think what Vegas is doing is sustainable? Do you think they are an example of how to build a team, and not possibly an anomaly?

 

[SoupGuru]

I have a question: do you think what Vegas is doing is sustainable? Do you think they are an example of how to build a team, and not possibly an anomaly?

I wouldn't be surprised if they couldn't sustain this level next year. I also wouldn't be surprised if they did. I honestly don't know what to think of them.

I don't know what that has to do with the notion that you can get a bunch of scrubs deep into the playoffs with a decent game plan and some hustle.

I know it runs counter to the idea around here that there's no point in even trying until after you've tanked and drafted a bunch of first rounders.

 

[njx9]

I know it runs counter to the idea around here that there's no point in even trying until after you've tanked and drafted a bunch of first rounders.

It does when you consistently ignore reality to force the narrative. Is "hustle" and "buying into the system" responsible for Karlsson's ludicrously unsustainable shooting percentage? Is it responsible for a great goalie being great in the playoffs? Is it responsible for FL giving up two very good players, who everyone knew were good before they left? It's not like Marchessault's improvement came out of nowhere, after all. Is it responsible for Reilly Smith having a bounceback season? Was it "buying into the system" two years ago that got him 50 points, and then he stopped "buying in" last year? It's too bad James Neal didn't buy in like he did in 2011ish, though.

LOL, scrubs. Yeah, totally. Brilliant.



But yeah, this is totally the model we should go for. Let me know when the NHL lets us poach great, underutilized talent from a bunch of teams and I'll stop talking about rebuilding by acquiring actual talent.

 

[SoupGuru]

It does when you consistently ignore reality to force the narrative. Is "hustle" and "buying into the system" responsible for Karlsson's ludicrously unsustainable shooting percentage? Is it responsible for a great goalie being great in the playoffs? Is it responsible for FL giving up two very good players, who everyone knew were good before they left? It's not like Marchessault's improvement came out of nowhere, after all. Is it responsible for Reilly Smith having a bounceback season? Was it "buying into the system" two years ago that got him 50 points, and then he stopped "buying in" last year? It's too bad James Neal didn't buy in like he did in 2011ish, though.

LOL, scrubs. Yeah, totally. Brilliant.



But yeah, this is totally the model we should go for. Let me know when the NHL lets us poach great, underutilized talent from a bunch of teams and I'll stop talking about rebuilding by acquiring actual talent.

Oh, I'm not suggesting it's a team building model. I'm suggesting it's taking a hard look at your team and wondering why you're not getting the same things out of them.

To put it bluntly, our future seems to depend a great deal on AA and Mantha, who have more skill than desire and that has never been a winning formula.

Will beats skill

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I wouldn't be surprised if they couldn't sustain this level next year. I also wouldn't be surprised if they did. I honestly don't know what to think of them.

I don't know what that has to do with the notion that you can get a bunch of scrubs deep into the playoffs with a decent game plan and some hustle.

I know it runs counter to the idea around here that there's no point in even trying until after you've tanked and drafted a bunch of first rounders.

We can have the conversation about winning a cup with "a good game plan and hustle" if Vegas actually wins the cup. They aren't going to have any easier of a time the further they go, and they aren't unbeatable. And I think you are taking a very simplistic stance on this considering the reason their "hustle" is resulting in wins is there are players who are demonstrating their skill this season. This isn't the 1980 US Olympic team, here. And any team "can" go on a run even if they aren't the most skilled. But that is a single run. Those kinds of situations are anomalies and I cannot think of a single instance where that kind of run relying strictly on a solid game plan has led to a Championship in recent memory.

I also disagree with the notion that AA is someone we depend greatly on. Mantha, yes, and he is still able to grow as a player. But AA is not really a core piece considering how he is played and how he acts as a player.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

It does when you consistently ignore reality to force the narrative. Is "hustle" and "buying into the system" responsible for Karlsson's ludicrously unsustainable shooting percentage? Is it responsible for a great goalie being great in the playoffs? Is it responsible for FL giving up two very good players, who everyone knew were good before they left? It's not like Marchessault's improvement came out of nowhere, after all. Is it responsible for Reilly Smith having a bounceback season? Was it "buying into the system" two years ago that got him 50 points, and then he stopped "buying in" last year? It's too bad James Neal didn't buy in like he did in 2011ish, though.

LOL, scrubs. Yeah, totally. Brilliant.



But yeah, this is totally the model we should go for. Let me know when the NHL lets us poach great, underutilized talent from a bunch of teams and I'll stop talking about rebuilding by acquiring actual talent.

It is less about being able to build a team from the castoffs from other rosters and seeing the types of players that Vegas did this with. Young, fast, scrappy... and more importantly, fit to the correct role. The Wings have been woefully undertalented so they've had a middle pairing D masquerading on the top pair. Give DDK a top pair he can work behind and he's a very good 3rd or 4th D.

The lesson from Vegas isn't "if you have a bunch of scrappy dudes you win... it's "don't devalue heart and desire". Don't devalue the success guys in contract years can have.

Also, in a parity-ridden NHL, chemistry is far more important than just gathering any kind of skill. Get the right talent, not just any talent.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Does anyone say you only need talent to win and that chemistry and heart don't factor into it?

 

[Ezekial]

Does anyone say you only need talent to win and that chemistry and heart don't factor into it?

No not really.

But people blast this organizations want for "character individuals" who display that type of drive, seemingly over skill.

Drive, size, speed. Sounds like a playoff team.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

No not really.

But people blast this organizations want for "character individuals" who display that type of drive, seemingly over skill.

Drive, size, speed. Sounds like a playoff team.

Because the team isn't skilled enough to win just on drive or "character" alone. We don't need simply "character" guys to fix our defense. We don't need simply "character" guys to replace Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

I don't understand why there has to be a dichotomy between character and skill. Skill guys according to some appear to have this undeserved reputation as lazy or poor defensively, and it seems to have only just come out as a concept recently.

 

[lilidk]

I have a question: do you think what Vegas is doing is sustainable? Do you think they are an example of how to build a team, and not possibly an anomaly?

All prediction by pro were that it will take Vegas couple seasons to get o playoff , then they say that Vegas will fail at playoff . Edmonton on the paper better team , but

 

[ArGarBarGar]

All prediction by pro were that it will take Vegas couple seasons to get o playoff , then they say that Vegas will fail at playoff . Edmonton on the paper better team , but

This doesn't answer my question.

 

[Ezekial]

Because the team isn't skilled enough to win just on drive or "character" alone. We don't need simply "character" guys to fix our defense. We don't need simply "character" guys to replace Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

I don't understand why there has to be a dichotomy between character and skill. Skill guys according to some appear to have this undeserved reputation as lazy or poor defensively, and it seems to have only just come out as a concept recently.

I agree with you, it's just one of those things that aren't mutually exclusive, but are treated as such. (Especially on hfboards)

For example, when Rasmussen was taken it was all character and size this and that, he's plenty skilled and mobile. He isn't Mr. Dirty Dangles, no, but he's definitely "skilled".

Imo the whole "league is becoming this and that now" is less true in the playoffs.

 

[jkutswings]

I agree with you, it's just one of those things that aren't mutually exclusive, but are treated as such. (Especially on hfboards)

For example, when Rasmussen was taken it was all character and size this and that, he's plenty skilled and mobile. He isn't Mr. Dirty Dangles, no, but he's definitely "skilled".

Imo the whole "league is becoming this and that now" is less true in the playoffs.

And with the sixth pick in the 2018 NHL Draft, The Detroit Red Wings select...Dirty Dangles, center, Kazan Ak-Bars.

 

[Red Stanley]

I feel that a guy named Dirty Dangles has to go 1OA. Anything else would be uncivilized.

 

[NickH8]

It does when you consistently ignore reality to force the narrative. Is "hustle" and "buying into the system" responsible for Karlsson's ludicrously unsustainable shooting percentage? Is it responsible for a great goalie being great in the playoffs? Is it responsible for FL giving up two very good players, who everyone knew were good before they left? It's not like Marchessault's improvement came out of nowhere, after all. Is it responsible for Reilly Smith having a bounceback season? Was it "buying into the system" two years ago that got him 50 points, and then he stopped "buying in" last year? It's too bad James Neal didn't buy in like he did in 2011ish, though.

LOL, scrubs. Yeah, totally. Brilliant.



But yeah, this is totally the model we should go for. Let me know when the NHL lets us poach great, underutilized talent from a bunch of teams and I'll stop talking about rebuilding by acquiring actual talent.

Don't blame the NHL, blame the teams that let those players go, or at times traded those players to Vegas (lmao Florida).

 

[Ezekial]

I feel that a guy named Dirty Dangles has to go 1OA. Anything else would be uncivilized.

How civilized were his parents?

 

[Red Stanley]

How civilized were his parents?

Giving him a name like that is pretty savage

 

[waltdetroit]

His brothers, Filthy and Greasy, are still in the AHL

 

[Reddwit]

The whole “chip on your shoulder” mentality is a cliche for a reason. I think people are really underestimating the mentality of a room of guys who were deemed unwanted by their team. The difference here is that the cap and the expansion rules left some talent on the table. Smith, Neal, Marchessault, Fleury - all deemed expendable largely due to the cap/financial reasons. Karlsson, Haula, Schmidt, Miller - all at a point in their career where they were showing glimpses of talent and their teams were sad to see them go, but still guys who ended up on the chopping block. Talent can reach another level with proper motivation. We see it happen all the time in this league, just typically on an individual level - not as a collective.


It’s awesome to see right now (and I swear it’s going to be made into a movie at some point if they win the Cup) but I don’t think it carries over to next year when players are being paid their dues and egos catch up with salaries.

 

[njx9]

Oh, I'm not suggesting it's a team building model. I'm suggesting it's taking a hard look at your team and wondering why you're not getting the same things out of them.

Totally fair - I think I really mis-read your point, my bad.