Vanek

Status
Not open for further replies.

Sammy*

Guest
JasonMacIsaac said:
Drop they all had him ranked inside the top 20.
You are right. And? You didnt answer the question.
Osullivan was rated #1 -3 to start the year.
 

billsandsabres

lurking
Sponsor
Mar 6, 2002
3,062
545
troy, ny
JasonMacIsaac said:
Stop acting like an ignorant fool, I never said I can predict the future but I can read into the present adn tell you whats wrong with his game. Work ethic, Skating, play away from the puck. I never liked this pick from the start.

well, i just disagree with that assessment, so that is that
 

Jim Bob

RIP RJ
Feb 27, 2002
55,660
34,492
Rochester, NY
Work ethic, Skating, play away from the puck.

Weren't those the knocks on Jagr's game when he was drafted?

Personally, I haven't heard any of Vanek's coaches question hsi work ethic.

I have heard scouts question how he's invisible during stretches of games and then he turns it on late and makes the big play.

I doubt that Vanek will be a guy that works hard every single shift. But I do think he will be a guy that when the game is tied and it's late in the 3rd period, he'll get the big goal to win the game.

As John Buccigross likes to say, "He is clutch. And clutch is everything."

Plus, I love the fact that Vanek plays bigger the bigger the game is.

How many times has a freshman scored both gamewinning goals at the Frozen Four and been named the MOP?
 

Sammy*

Guest
JasonMacIsaac said:
O sullivan droped like 10 places becasue he got injured and didn't improve on his point totals as a rookie.
Actually, he dropped around 15 spots from where he was projected to go at the beginning of the year to the end of the year. And the reason on why he dropped was more a factor of his percieved poor attitude than anything else. He got into a battle with his coach which furthur made people leery of his him.
By the way, you still holding on to your statement that scouts & "scouting centers" dont strongly consider attitude & work ethic?
 

Sammy*

Guest
JasonMacIsaac said:
Yes I do, why was Brendl ranked so high, everyone knew about his attitude. The most talented are on top and hard workers are on bottom.
You dont get it ,do you?
If his attitude wasnt in question, HE PROBABLY WOULD HAVE BEEN RATED #1 OVERALL.
Ya think Parise would have been rated so high if he didnt have his attitude & work ethic?
This is like talking to a wall.
 

AJ1982

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
1,812
1
New York
Visit site
Vanek has star potential written all over him. He certainly has bust potential as well, goal scorers like Vanek often can bust simply because their whole game revolves around offense and defense is a question mark (a la Hugh Jessiman, although I believe Vanek plays better defense than Jesiman's) Knock his work ethic if you want, but at least cite a quote or something from one of his coaches or someone who really knows before you label him the next Brendl. Otherwise all you have is a personal hunch that has no substance.

On another note, I can't wait to see how Vanek does this year. He will be expected to lead Minnesota again and to better or at least maintain the point totals he achieved last year. Same thing goes for Parise. Should be an exciting year to see if they can keep up the pace.
 

AJ1982

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
1,812
1
New York
Visit site
JasonMacIsaac said:
The only way Vanek becomes a star is if his coach lets him go all out offense and forget about his defensive habbits or is he improves his defense and work ethic. He is a fans best friend but a coaches nightmare.

Perhaps you're right, but let's remember that similar things were said about Gaborik, are being said about Kovalchuk and many others. Very rarely do you see a player who comes along who has the offensive prowess and potential of a Vanek and is solid defensively. Guys like that go first overall.
 

KillToronto

Guest
JasonMacIsaac said:
The only way Vanek becomes a star is if his coach lets him go all out offense and forget about his defensive habbits or is he improves his defense and work ethic. He is a fans best friend but a coaches nightmare.

I don't understand how a clutch player can have a bad work ethic. As for your constant comparisons to Brendl: Brendl is known for having a bad work ethic because, when he's supposed to, he won't go in the corners and fight for a play. He won't go out of his way to make anything happen. Vanek plays with intensity and passion. He may "disappear" for periods at a time, but so does Brendl. But the thing is, after Vanek disappears, he comes back in the 3rd or OT to score a gigantic goal. What does Brendl do after he disappears? Disappear some more. The only comparison you can make between Vanek and Brendl is that they are both great goal scorers. Vanek is a much harder worker, and a far more clutch player.
 

KillToronto

Guest
JasonMacIsaac said:
Stop acting like an ignorant fool, I never said I can predict the future but I can read into the present adn tell you whats wrong with his game. Work ethic, Skating, play away from the puck. I never liked this pick from the start.

I don't know, but I'm just gonna guess here that you're a kings fan who was hoping to God that Vanek would still be available for your team at the draft. But when he wasn't and LA wasted their 3 picks, you went ahead and changed your whole view on Vanek. Remarks you have made such as "Brendl say wha?" and "I smell a Brendl a reaking" are not only Pejorative Slured statements, but they have no backing.
 

#37-#93-#27*

Guest
JasonMacIsaac said:
How many NHL scouts had him ranked that high, maybe most would have him outside the top ten (where I think he should have been) Buffalo is one team and maybe thewy see something other can't but buffalo has a poor record at the draft table also.
Do you have any factual proof that other teams didn't rank him high? Unless you do what you just said is irrelevant.

Infact all of what you're saying is moot because the people who have better influence then say a fan clearly think he's got the potential and likely can be a star in the NHL.
 

kasper11

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
7,674
13
New York
Visit site
Can somebody explain to me why it seems to be common knowledge that Vanek has a bad attitude/work ethic? This is a kid who left home as a teenager to play hockey, and who's coach has done nothing but praise him.
 

#37-#93-#27*

Guest
kasper11 said:
Can somebody explain to me why it seems to be common knowledge that Vanek has a bad attitude/work ethic? This is a kid who left home as a teenager to play hockey, and who's coach has done nothing but praise him.
He does not have a bad attitude infact judging from one of his predraft interviews he sounds like a great kid, but he tends to be lazy in games sometimes and doesn't show the same work ethic as other prospects.

If he succeeds it'll most likely be on talent which he has plenty of.
 

#37-#93-#27*

Guest
JasonMacIsaac said:
Its also irrelevant that ppl say all nhl teams had him in their top 10. I just don't think he will be good in the NHL.

Stick that right next to Crosby leading Team Canada aat the WJC in scoring.
How is it irrevelvant when he was picked 5th overall by an NHL team.

You aren't making much sense.
 

Epsilon

#basta
Oct 26, 2002
48,464
369
South Cackalacky
It's really easy to all the armchair quarterbacks to talk about Brendl like they knew he was going to be a bust because of his work ethic, but if you actually followed the WHL at the time Brendl played there you would probably be signing a different tune. And the fact that he dominated the WHL with minimal effort is not an indicator of bad work ethic, because in that case you might as well question the work ethic of any guy who tore up the CHL and had an easy time doing it (Bouchard, Spezza, etc.). Brendl only got lazy when he turned pro.

BTW, how many of the guys knocking Vanek have seen him play more than a half-dozen games?
 

Sammy*

Guest
JasonMacIsaac said:
I am able to knock who I please, I have opinions, most of you are taking them too much to heart also. Why are mine treated any diffenent then some other poster.
Because when you say that scouts or scouting centers dont take into consideration work ethic or attitude, this clearly indicates that you dont have a clue on this issue.
 

Sammy*

Guest
JasonMacIsaac said:
It clearly does, I gave you plenty of players who were high in rankings but droped in draft becasue of attitude and work ethic problems. It seems the majority of the posters mad are buffalo fans too so I don't care, I'm done with this thread, All I am doing is going over the same stuff.
Man, you are thick. Of course players drop & others move up., all for a variety of reasons. One of your initial idiotic points was "All scouting centers focus only on skills, talent and potential. They don't care about work ethic or attitude...".
Stupid, just stupid.
And I am not even a Vanek fan.
 

Vlad The Impaler

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
12,315
644
Montreal
kasper11 said:
So, obviously you know more than EVERY professional scout that had Vanek rated well above Brown and Nilsson?

As shocking as that might sound to you, it happens, yes. I remember there was a poster on the old forum who claimed loudly being sure that Milan Jurcina was WAY underrated.

While Milan has not made the NHL yet, he has long since passed *many* prospects rated or drafted above him. I believe the poster was BigMurph. He was obnoxious and stubborn but he knew his hockey well.

Lastly, not EVERY professional scout rated Vanek above Brown and Nilsson. We could turn around your childish and lame argument around and say that maybe he AGREES with the professional scouts who rated Brown above Vanek. How do you like that now? Sounds better or just as pointless?

Please stop using that argument. It's been overdone and it doesn't work.
 

Jim Bob

RIP RJ
Feb 27, 2002
55,660
34,492
Rochester, NY
JasonMacIsaac said:
I linked the bad attitude with lazy play. Like I said earlyer, if you play lazy you arn't listening to the coach, that IMO is a bad attitude.

LMAO

The guy led all freshmen in the NCAA in scoring last year, was the WCHAs ROTY, was the national freshman of the year, the leading scorer on a national championship team, and the Frozen Four MVP.

Yet he did this all as a guy that was lazy and didn't listen to his coach.

Riiiiiiiight.

I guess Don Lucia's thoughts about Vanek don't matter a whole lot, huh?

http://wcha.ocsn.com/sports/m-hockey/spec-rel/022703aaa.html

A rookie from Graz, Austria, by way of Sioux Falls from the USHL junior ranks, Vanek may have no knowledge of last year's individual achievements, but he certainly doesn't shrink from the challenge. A lanky, 6-foot-2, 210-pound winger, Vanek cruises to his own beat when he's on the ice. Instead of the hustling, whirling-dervish two-way workers that populate teams throughout college and pro hockey, Vanek seems to coast and avoid congestion, almost disappearing until the puck touches his stick, at which time his game turns positively electrifying.

That style has led to some whispered criticism about how he doesn't get involved, doesn't hustle, doesn't like contact, although even the whisperers know that a lot of players can make it into the National Hockey League if they possess the puck-skills Vanek displays everytime he gets the puck on his stick.

"He plays under control," said Gopher coach Don Lucia. "Vanek is not going to be first up on the forecheck, or using his body. But he's very strong on the puck, and very dangerous. He's got a chance to score 30 goals as a freshman. He's far and away the best natural goal-scorer we have."


http://live20.ihwc.net/english/article/news/index.ihwc?artId=1274

"Thomas is big and strong, he's got terrific hands," said Head Coach Don Lucia. "He's been good for us as the first European in the Minnesota program. That diversity has been healthy for our kids, and it's been great for our fans to watch him play."

"We talked about his ability to score in the third period this season," said Lucia. "His goal was a gamebreaker. Great players are the ones who step up when the game is on the line, and Thomas did."
 

KillToronto

Guest
JasonMacIsaac said:
They arn't good thoughts, all they keep saying is he doesn't skate hard and is scared of body contact. There is another reason why I think he won't make well in the NHL. Poor defensivly, bad work ethic, scared to use his body lol

He's not "scared" to use his body. He might not use it much, but he doesn't have to. He gets the puck without doing dirty work in the corners, and when he's got the puck, he scores. Why should he go nuts in the corner and risk injury if he doesn't have to? Nowhere does it say he's scared. Perhaps the reason why he doesn't skate hard is because he doesn't have to skate hard to keep up with the other collegiate players who are nowhere's near as talented as him. Andreychuk never skated hard because he couldn't skate. And he has never had a season where he didn't score 20 goals, and he is the all-time pp goal leader. Skating means crap. If Vanek coasts around for the Sabres for 2 periods and then scores the winning goal in the 3rd, nobody is going to complain about his play in the first 2 periods. And he'll be known as a great clutch player, which he is. I'll take a "lazy" clutch player any day of the week, but you can pass on a handful of game-winning goals if you want, thats your problem.
 

Jim Bob

RIP RJ
Feb 27, 2002
55,660
34,492
Rochester, NY
JasonMacIsaac said:
They arn't good thoughts, all they keep saying is he doesn't skate hard and is scared of body contact. There is another reason why I think he won't make well in the NHL. Poor defensivly, bad work ethic, scared to use his body lol

Where does it say he's scared to use his body?

Have you even watched him play? Every time I've seen Vanek play he's been a player, much like Jagr, that uses his body to keep control of the puck rather than as a crash and bang forechecker.

He goes into traffic and in front of the net to make plays. It's not like he's a soft player that shys away from contact and refuses to take a hit to make a play.

He's not a guy that works hard on the forecheck. So freaking what. If the Sabres were using him as a crash and bang forechecking winger they'd be wasting his talent.

It would be like asking Marian Hossa to be a checking line winger that only concentrates on shutting down the other team's top line.
 

Jim Bob

RIP RJ
Feb 27, 2002
55,660
34,492
Rochester, NY
JasonMacIsaac said:
Ever time I seen him he seemed to be very very tentative useing his body in any situation, he do3es't want to pay the price to get the puck. When he gets the puck he is ok, Idon't want a shinny player on my team. Maybe with Satan and Drury that may work.

I'm sorry, but there are a ton of really good offensive players throughout the history of the NHL that didn't do the dirty work to get the puck, but were absolutely magical once the biscuit got on their stick.

The 1st ever Sabres draft pick comes immediately to mind as I just saw the re-airing of "Memories of the Aud" last night and they had Floyd Smith talking about how his job was to get Bert the puck and to get out of the way.

The key with Vanek is and will always be what he does with the puck once it's on his stick. So far, I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe that his skills won't transfer to the NHL.

But I think the biggest test this year will be how he fares at the WJCs in Pool A play. If he can carry Austria against that level of competition than that should quiet a lot of the skeptics, IMO.
 

gopher

Registered User
Dec 5, 2002
251
0
Europe
www.legioxv.org
Jim Bob said:
Where does it say he's scared to use his body?

Have you even watched him play? Every time I've seen Vanek play he's been a player, much like Jagr, that uses his body to keep control of the puck rather than as a crash and bang forechecker.

He goes into traffic and in front of the net to make plays. It's not like he's a soft player that shys away from contact and refuses to take a hit to make a play.

He's not a guy that works hard on the forecheck. So freaking what. If the Sabres were using him as a crash and bang forechecking winger they'd be wasting his talent.

It would be like asking Marian Hossa to be a checking line winger that only concentrates on shutting down the other team's top line.

one man should carry the hole team, i think that doesn´t work!
the rest of the austrian team isn´t playing like vanek!
IMO vanek can score hundrets of goals, they will lose ....
 

MN_Gopher

Registered User
May 2, 2002
3,628
21
Mpls
Visit site
WOW
u people are all way off on Vanek. He came to NA to play hockey. He could have been lazy and dominated in Austria or wherever he wanted to play in Europe. He has dedication and a good work ethic. He plays a simple game, not a lazy game. He sees the ice and knows where and who is on the ice with him. Lemieux and Gretzky did the same thing. You wonder what in the world the guys were thinking and then the puck is in the net. Vanek is no Lemieux or Gretzky but he is as comfortable out there. He is not a hard working grinder. His back checking is suspect or, if you ever watched the man play over a course of a season, you would notice he intercepts a lot of passes because he can read plays. He uses his intellegence to see what is going on, then reacts. And he can do it on the fly. He may not look fast but i have yet to see him get caught from behind. And he does play in front of the net not affraid of contact at all, he does prefer to play in space. He does like to lean into guys and carry them to the net with him. Call him lazy or a bust if you want. But the kid IS a hard worker that is coachable, and most importantly he is having fun, He has said he is happy to be in college and be in MN. Hockey is not a chore for him, it is a time for him to go out and prove himself, And he wants to be the best.

And who ever said he dominates a bad league. The WCHA and college hockey is way underratted. In the last few years you have. Leopold, Hale, Martin, Taffe, Pohl, Heatley, Reinprect, Roche, Senja all who are very close to making NHL rosters, Then Ballard, Sutter, Parise, Stuart, Tallackson are all first rounders. Thats just a few from the WCHA.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->