GDT: Vancouver @ Calgary 7:00 MT SNW and SNP

Baxterman

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Aug 27, 2017
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Naaah that was on Brouwer for not covering the point for Kulak.

There is ton of blame to go around but if Kulak is going to dump it in and chase it he has to get close enough to at least make it tough to break out.

Kulak was way to slow/weak after so easily giving the puck up to the Canucks.
 

Baxterman

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Aug 27, 2017
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Lmao how was that on Kulak? He dumped and chased both Brodie and Hamilton do it all the time. Then none of our forwards stayed back despite watching Kulak go in deep. Finally culminating in Bartkowski playing a 2-1 worse than any I've ever seen before.

Just because he's a d man doesn't mean he's not allowed to go in deep. I wouldn't call it a "pinch" if you're the first one in.

Its his fault because a. it was a crappy dump in right to the defenseman and b. when he went in he didn't come close to getting the puck.

Look how fast the Canucks were able to get that puck up. When Brodie and Hamilton dump in it and chase it they more often than not get it or at least fight for the puck. Kulak made a bad dump in and then followed it up with a weak effort to get it.

Sure being a d-man doesn't stop him from going in deep but when he plays it so crappy like that he should get called out for it. Just because other didn't play it great doesn't take away his poor decision or play.
 
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Dack

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Jun 16, 2014
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Its his fault because a. it was a crappy dump in right to the defenseman and b. when he went in he didn't come close to getting the puck.

Look how fast the Canucks were able to get that puck up. When Brodie and Hamilton dump in it and chase it they more often than not get it or at least fight for the puck. Kulak made a bad dump in and then followed it up with a weak effort to get it.

Sure being a d-man doesn't stop him from going in deep but when he plays it so crappy like that he should get called out for it. Just because other didn't play it great doesn't take away his poor decision or play.
A crappy dump in? There is basically no such thing as a good dump in its a last resort because you can't gain the line with possession. If it was crappy then maybe one of the 4th liners should have stayed back (duh) or Bartkowski should have actually gotten back instead of spending as much time in no man's land as possible.

The Canucks were able to transition so quickly because the forwards all went in deep after watching their D man go into the corner.
 

Calculon

unholy acting talent
Jan 20, 2006
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Flames losing all these games in regulation is going to hurt them come April. If they're going to lose, at least lose in overtime or the shootout.

Also, does Treliving realize he traded his first round pick? Clearly Gulutzan is too compromised to keep Bartkowski off the ice but one would think Treliving would have the capacity to do the right thing.
 
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JurassicTunga

it is what it is
Mar 21, 2010
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Unfortunate game. Canucks capitalized on almost all the mistakes the Flames made. Markstrom had a better game than Smith. Flames were by far the better team, but it didn't go their way tonight. That's hockey. It happens. Quite a few positives to take out of this. Onto the next.
 

Baxterman

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Aug 27, 2017
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A crappy dump in? There is basically no such thing as a good dump in its a last resort because you can't gain the line with possession. If it was crappy then maybe one of the 4th liners should have stayed back (duh) or Bartkowski should have actuallt gotten back instead of spending as much time in no man's land as possible.

The Canucks were able to transition so quickly because the forwards all went in deep after watching their D man go into the corner.

There certainly are good dumps in. When a d is stepping up or flat footed and you can dump in it and easily get it in a good position behind the net. Or for a guy like Brodie who is usually faster than the other guy so he can use his speed to get there before him. When you are waiting for you guys to change so you can tie up the puck and allow them to join you.

But when the defense is backing up and easily able to turn and get it while you are a slow, weak defenseman then yes I agree it is a dumb play.

The Canucks were able to transition because it was so easy for them to get the puck after it was dumped in and there was no d man there to prevent the breakout. Kulak gave them the puck easily and then took himself out of the play while doing nothing.
 

DFF

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Feb 28, 2002
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A crappy dump in? There is basically no such thing as a good dump in its a last resort because you can't gain the line with possession. If it was crappy then maybe one of the 4th liners should have stayed back (duh) or Bartkowski should have actually gotten back instead of spending as much time in no man's land as possible.

The Canucks were able to transition so quickly because the forwards all went in deep after watching their D man go into the corner.


We should agree Bart sucks and Kulak has a lot to learn.

But it's GG's fault for putting them together and play them that much. Stupid coach
 

Dack

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Jun 16, 2014
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There certainly are good dumps in. When a d is stepping up or flat footed and you can dump in it and easily get it in a good position behind the net. Or for a guy like Brodie who is usually faster than the other guy so he can use his speed to get there before him. When you are waiting for you guys to change so you can tie up the puck and allow them to join you.

But when the defense is backing up and easily able to turn and get it while you are a slow, weak defenseman then yes I agree it is a dumb play.

The Canucks were able to transition because it was so easy for them to get the puck after it was dumped in and there was no d man there to prevent the breakout. Kulak gave them the puck easily and then took himself out of the play while doing nothing.
Ideally you don't dump it in if the D is flat footed a pass is going to be better almost all the time because your retrieval time is just giving them time to get into position.

It's like this though, if Lazar dumped that puck in and Kulak, Brouwer and Versteeg chase it it's on Kulak right? He was the D man and should have stayed back while the forwards chased it. You'd be silly to blame something like that on Lazar all he did was dump it and go after it. It's on Kulak because he was the last guy in and should have seen that they weren't going to get the puck and stayed back to prevent the odd man rush. But somehow in this situation it's on Kulak? Literally the only reason people are blaming him over the forwards is because he's a D man if the situation were reversed and he was the 4th man in he would be the sole player getting blamed.

Forwards are supposed to cover for their D man when they go in deep. End of story.
 
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Dack

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Jun 16, 2014
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We should agree Bart sucks and Kulak has a lot to learn.

But it's GG's fault for putting them together and play them that much. Stupid coach
No doubt and to have the 4th line and 3rd pair together immediately after a goal was just asking for the Canucks to score.
 
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Bounces R Way

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Forwards are supposed to cover for their D man when they go in deep. End of story.

One of the fundamentals of hockey.. kind of like defending a 2 on 1 by facing your opponent and taking away the pass.

Not really sure what to say about this game. Flames played well, stupid mistakes cost them. The bottom 6 should score a goal maybe. Even two if they're feeling like contributing at all.
 
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OvermanKingGainer

#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Feb 3, 2015
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Or for a guy like Brodie who is usually faster than the other guy so he can use his speed to get there before him.


But when the defense is backing up and easily able to turn and get it while you are a slow, weak defenseman then yes I agree it is a dumb play.

You silly takes never cease to amaze me.

Kulak is pretty much 95% the skater TJ Brodie is. He's more mobile than Dougie Hamilton, too. That's a pinch I want him taking 10/10 times down one goal. 100/100 times, even.

Er, 99/100 times.

The other 1/100 is when you're playing with Troy Brouwer as F3 and Matt Bartkowski as your partner while Smith isn't in God Mode.
 

Calgareee

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Jun 29, 2015
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Ideally you don't dump it in if the D is flat footed a pass is going to be better almost all the time because your retrieval time is just giving them time to get into position.

It's like this though, if Lazar dumped that puck in and Kulak, Brouwer and Versteeg chase it it's on Kulak right? He was the D man and should have stayed back while the forwards chased it. You'd be silly to blame something like that on Lazar all he did was dump it and go after it. It's on Kulak because he was the last guy in and should have seen that they weren't going to get the puck and stayed back to prevent the odd man rush. But somehow in this situation it's on Kulak? Literally the only reason people are blaming him over the forwards is because he's a D man if the situation were reversed and he was the 4th man in he would be the sole player getting blamed.

Forwards are supposed to cover for their D man when they go in deep. End of story.

Agreed. And I think it should be pretty universally accepted that regardless of how the 2 on 1 developed that was easily one of the worst played 2 on 1’s by a Defense man I have seen in a long time.

Bartowski had no idea where the second player was, put no pressure on the puck carrier and made ZERO effort to take away the passing lane.
 

Baxterman

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Aug 27, 2017
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Ideally you don't dump it in if the D is flat footed a pass is going to be better almost all the time because your retrieval time is just giving them time to get into position.

It's like this though, if Lazar dumped that puck in and Kulak, Brouwer and Versteeg chase it it's on Kulak right? He was the D man and should have stayed back while the forwards chased it. You'd be silly to blame something like that on Lazar all he did was dump it and go after it. It's on Kulak because he was the last guy in and should have seen that they weren't going to get the puck and stayed back to prevent the odd man rush. But somehow in this situation it's on Kulak? Literally the only reason people are blaming him over the forwards is because he's a D man if the situation were reversed and he was the 4th man in he would be the sole player getting blamed.

Forwards are supposed to cover for their D man when they go in deep. End of story.

The reason people are blaming him because it was a bad decision and bad execution.

Brouwer is in the wrong for not covering him, Bartkowski is in the wrong for playing the 2 on 1 like it was his first time playing defense and GG is wrong for having the 4th line/3d paring out there at all let alone together. But none of that changes that it was a dumb decision and poor play by Kulak.
 

Body Checker

Registered User
Aug 11, 2005
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If flames miss playoffs and gulutzan ends year as coach then Treliving’s job should be on the line but it won’t. The Hamilton and hamonic trades were made to be elite, top 10; not pissing around for a bottom playoff spot. Thinking a Barzal or Boeser in 2015 would of been a better option and 2018 1st still in hand. Yeah overreacting maybe but this team is frustrating.
 

Baxterman

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Aug 27, 2017
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You silly takes never cease to amaze me.

Kulak is pretty much 95% the skater TJ Brodie is. He's more mobile than Dougie Hamilton, too. That's a pinch I want him taking 10/10 times down one goal. 100/100 times, even.

Er, 99/100 times.

The other 1/100 is when you're playing with Troy Brouwer as F3 and Matt Bartkowski as your partner while Smith isn't in God Mode.

And your silly takes never cease to amaze me.

If you really want Kulak weakly dumping the puck in and then not coming close to getting it back I don't know what to tell you. It was a bad decision and poorly executed.

It is ok to criticize your golden goose sometimes.
 

BigRangy

Get well soon oliver
Mar 17, 2015
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If the Flames miss the playoffs Brad is definitely getting shitcanned because you just know that the Isles will end up with Dahlin
 

Baxterman

Registered User
Aug 27, 2017
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If flames miss playoffs and gulutzan ends year as coach then Treliving’s job should be on the line but it won’t. The Hamilton and hamonic trades were made to be elite, top 10; not pissing around for a bottom playoff spot. Thinking a Barzal or Boeser in 2015 would of been a better option and 2018 1st still in hand. Yeah overreacting maybe but this team is frustrating.

I think Hamilton is a much better option for where this team was when the deal was made and especially there is still a big risk at the time that either guy turns out to be what they are now.

I think at the time with Bennett still so young our defense looked like it needed a bigger impact on it than the forwards.

Even now if you switch Hamilton for Barzal or Boeser and we are just complaining about the need for a top 4 defenseman instead of a top 6 winger and still bitching about the lack of scoring from the bottom 6.
 

DFF

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
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Hamilton is more valuable than Bazal or Boeser even with what we know today

and there was no guaranty that who they would have picked, maybe they went with Connor.

The Hamonic trade is going to be questioned if the Flames missed the playoff
 

Baxterman

Registered User
Aug 27, 2017
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If the Flames miss the playoffs Brad is definitely getting ****canned because you just know that the Isles will end up with Dahlin

If the Isles end up winning the lottery from the 10th-15th spot (likely the lowest the Flames finish in the lottery) and they get Dahlin then whoop dee do for them. That should have zero impact on Treliving getting fired.

I think if they miss this year then he is on very thin ice. I think even if they miss the Hamonic trade still made a ton of sense and was a good trade. Smith has obviously worked out (so far) as well. He does have some misses (Brouwer, GG and being unable to add scoring depth) but I don't think it is so bad that the team needs to can Treliving.

Changing the GM would put the team into more chaos than is needed now and really the team isn't in a position where it seems "big moves" would make sense or help out.
 

Calculon

unholy acting talent
Jan 20, 2006
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The GM deserves more rope than miss and you're out. He should get at least one more coaching change before getting the hot seat. The roster, on paper at least, is very promising. The coach stuff, suspect at best. Plus, that kind of pressure on a GM only results in Darryl Sutter type desperation moves. Don't know why anyone would ever want to relive that era.

But yeah, if the Flames miss the playoffs, Gulutzan has to go. Heck, if they make it and lose in the first round, he should be replaced anyway.
 

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