Confirmed Trade: [VAN/CGY] Elias Lindholm for Andrei Kuzmenko, Hunter Brzustewicz, Joni Jurmo, 2024 1st, cond. 2024 4th

[TheNumber4]

Man it's a sad existence in that Northern waste land you live in. Even during the happiest moments of your life you can't rein in the jealousy and disappointment.

Not as sad as being this triggered over a hockey opinion.

 

[tarheelhockey]

People said the same thing about Ron Francis late in his career. Reputation lives longer than reality for most players. Peca won a Selke trophy in a year where he was well below average defensively. Kopitar is still viewed as an elite defensive player and hasn't been for 2-3 years now.

Ok but you’re comparing Lemaire negatively to Compher and Kadri and Karlsson.

Even if you want to say he had fallen off from his absolute peak (which was all of 2-3 two years earlier, hardly comparable to a 2004 Francis or 2024 Kopitar)… you are talking about a HHOFer who was the 1C on arguably the best hockey team ever constructed, who was widely if not universally recognized as the defensive linchpin of his line. A guy who Scotty Bowman (who gave no frivolous praise to weak defenders) openly and repeatedly said was playing the best two-way hockey of his career. For crying out loud he was voted the 8th best C in the NHL while missing nearly half the season, then went on to tie for the league scoring lead on the way to his 4th consecutive Cup ring.

I’m sorry but I don’t think ****ing JT Compher has anything on that guy.

 

[Double Dion]

Ok but you’re comparing Lemaire negatively to Compher and Kadri and Karlsson.

Even if you want to say he had fallen off from his absolute peak (which was all of 2-3 two years earlier, hardly comparable to a 2004 Francis or 2024 Kopitar)… you are talking about a HHOFer who was the 1C on arguably the best hockey team ever constructed, who was widely if not universally recognized as the defensive linchpin of his line. A guy who Scotty Bowman (who gave no frivolous praise to weak defenders) openly and repeatedly said was playing the best two-way hockey of his career. For crying out loud he was voted the 8th best C in the NHL while missing nearly half the season, then went on to tie for the league scoring lead on the way to his 4th consecutive Cup ring.

I’m sorry but I don’t think ****ing JT Compher has anything on that guy.

Again, reputation exceeded reality. The best defensive player on that line was not Lemaire. It was Shutt. Criminally underrated. The shutdown line for the Habs wasn't even that line. It was the Gainey Jarvis line.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Again, reputation exceeded reality. The best defensive player on that line was not Lemaire. It was Shutt. Criminally underrated. The shutdown line for the Habs wasn't even that line. It was the Gainey Jarvis line.

Yeah, everyone gets that they weren’t a shutdown line — they were the top line in the NHL. Hence leading the league in points that spring, hence the title “two-way player”. The distinction between his type of all-round player and a specialist, as described in the article above.

Clearly Scotty Bowman did not feel that Shutt was the best defensive player on the line, at the time the events were happening. He wasn’t out there saying “this is the best two-way game I’ve seen from him” because of media reputation.

In any event, Lemaire was absolutely considered a top two-way center even if he was not the absolute best in the league. Nobody is suggesting otherwise. The original point was that Stanley Cup winners always have an excellent two-way center. Here you have the 1C on one of the greatest dynasties of all time, a guy who was lauded for his two-way game by people who knew what they were talking about. Comparing him with someone like Kadri or Compher is absolutely baffling, there’s really no defending that point and the only thing you’ve offered is your subjective opinion of who you remember him to be.

 

[sting101]

Not as sad as being this triggered over a hockey opinion.

It's worse when your an Oilers fan trolling another fanbase

At least he's come into this thread offering a respectful opinion from the Flames side. Your entire MO has been to just shit on the Canucks their fans and Lindholm

Grow up

 

[TheNumber4]

It's worse when your an Oilers fan trolling another fanbase

At least he's come into this thread offering a respectful opinion from the Flames side. Your entire MO has been to just shit on the Canucks their fans and Lindholm

Grow up

Yeh I’m an oilers fan who’s “trolling” by saying the oilers rivals fleeced another team in a trade.

I’m allowed to have my thoughts on Lindholm’s value. An opinion I held before he even got traded to Van. He’s extremely overrated. His season with the Flames showed it and it was a fleecing at the time the trade was made.

 

[Double Dion]

Yeh I’m an oilers fan who’s “trolling” by saying the oilers rivals fleeced another team in a trade.

I’m allowed to have my thoughts on Lindholm’s value. An opinion I held before he even got traded to Van. He’s extremely overrated. His season with the Flames showed it and it was a fleecing at the time the trade was made.

You really don't have "thoughts." Thoughts require insight. You have the desire to bring other people down to your level because you are unhappy with your lot in life.

 

[TheNumber4]

You really don't have "thoughts." Thoughts require insight. You have the desire to bring other people down to your level because you are unhappy with your lot in life.

It required insight to realize that Lindholm was overrated. I could go over why, but you and I both know your repeated personal attacks towards me aren’t about a perceived lack of insight. It’s only cause I’m an Oilers fan with negative opinions about the Flames. I mean you are more than welcome to counter any claims I make but you’d rather just attack people online.

 

[Double Dion]

It required insight to realize that Lindholm was overrated. I could go over why, but you and I both know your repeated personal attacks towards me aren’t about a perceived lack of insight. It’s only cause I’m an Oilers fan with negative opinions about the Flames. I mean you are more than welcome to counter any claims I make but you’d rather just attack people online.

Well he finished 2nd in Selke voting 2 years ago. He's been in the top 10 three times. He's scored 40 goals. He's one of the top PKers in the NHL, one of the top faceoff men in the NHL. Real solid "thoughts" that he sucks. The Oilers haven't won anything despite having 2 of the top 5 offensive players in the league. Could it be that the things Lindholm does matter too? Nah, just keep firing out your "thoughts."

 

[TheNumber4]

Well he finished 2nd in Selke voting 2 years ago. He's been in the top 10 three times. He's scored 40 goals. He's one of the top PKers in the NHL, one of the top faceoff men in the NHL. Real solid "thoughts" that he sucks. The Oilers haven't won anything despite having 2 of the top 5 offensive players in the league. Could it be that the things Lindholm does matter too? Nah, just keep firing out your "thoughts."

And you don’t think Sutter’s system and calgarys defence had a part to play in thise selke votes? Not to mention being on a line with a peak Johnny and Chucky. That very year you mention is exactly why he was overrated. It’s no shock that his offence nose dived right after. And the selke votes disappeared.

 

[Double Dion]

And you don’t think Sutter’s system and calgarys defence had a part to play in thise selke votes? Not to mention being on a line with a peak Johnny and Chucky. That very year you mention is exactly why he was overrated. It’s no shock that his offence nose dived right after. And the selke votes disappeared.

He got Selke votes in Carolina too. Anymore "thoughts?" He had the highest +/- in the last 35 years for a center. Johnny was +64 with him. He's been -60 since he hasn't been with him. Johnny put up 115 with him, he just put up 60 without him. Tkachuk put up 104 with him, his prior high was 77. Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself.

 

[TheNumber4]

He got Selke votes in Carolina too. Anymore "thoughts?" He had the highest +/- in the last 35 years for a center. Johnny was +64 with him. He's been -60 since he hasn't been with him. Johnny put up 115 with him, he just put up 60 without him. Tkachuk put up 104 with him, his prior high was 77. Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself.

Did he? Got a source on that cause according to this article he got his first selke recognition as a Flame.

“Lindholm started to get noticed for his two-way play in his first season with the Flames, finishing 10th in Selke Trophy voting”

Not that a couple selke votes in Carolina would change anything anyways. He’s still overrated. Johnny’s +\- numbers are likely related to him moving from one of the best defence teams to CBJ. Moreso than the Lindholm effect.

Tkachuk continues to be great away from Lindholm and I don’t hear you making the same crappy argument about how Tlqchucks +\- changed going to a good team in Florida. Quite the selective use of stats and facts you need to have an argument.