Raptors Discussion: v69| It's no longer playoff time. | Raptors eliminated in 2nd round by Cleveland

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theaub

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Nov 21, 2008
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Casey needs to be gone tomorrow morning.

Deciding to go deep into a tax with this core is nonsensical, but some creative re-tooling can keep us competitive and also let us keep some decent assets if we regress next year so we can tear it down if necessary. This is probably the worst offseason to start tanking because you end up losing a lot of assets for nothing.
 

Suntouchable13

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Dec 20, 2003
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He isnt. He built one of the best teams in the Eastern conference and basically gave this franchise success and sustained success.
He has done a masterful job and glad to have him.

He needs to find a way to figure things out. 17-24 in the playoffs is not good enough. He has done a great job building a team that wins 204 regular season games over the past 4 seasons. But ultimately he has to find a way to build a truly elite team. LBJ is in the way no doubt but what would make him special if he could find a way to beat him. I am not ready to build statues for him just yet.
 

Suntouchable13

Registered User
Dec 20, 2003
43,033
18,049
Toronto, ON
Casey needs to be gone tomorrow morning.

Deciding to go deep into a tax with this core is nonsensical, but some creative re-tooling can keep us competitive and also let us keep some decent assets if we regress next year so we can tear it down if necessary. This is probably the worst offseason to start tanking because you end up losing a lot of assets for nothing.

But ****, another year where we will get spanked by LBJ and Cleveland in the playoffs. I don't find that exciting anymore. Do something substantial or rebuild. People want to remain competitive for the sake of remaining competitive.
 

theaub

34-38-61-10-13-15
Nov 21, 2008
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I agree, but you need to just keep accumulating assets. DeMar isn't going to go down in value if you keep him another year (if anything with the inflating cap he'll just look more affordable). JV probably goes in the offseason. Lowry is really contract demand-based but if he takes something in the range of what non-Toronto teams could offer he's movable in a year or two. I wouldn't keep Ibaka. This team desperately needs a legitimate wing player who can be a third (or higher) option.

Treadmilling sucks, but just haphazardly blowing it up because LeBron is too good is only going to hurt down the road.
 

likeabosski

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Jul 31, 2013
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We are at a point right now where we have to decide whether we should preserve the core (ie. resign Kyle Lowry, keep DeMar DeRozan for now) or blow it up (ie. let Kyle Lowry walk, try to trade DeMar DeRozan, etc) and hope to land a nice draft pick. lol. If we let Kyle Lowry walk, expect Game 3 and Game 4 to be a preview of what's to come for 2017-18. lol. His performance did regress in the playoffs (our entire team regressed for the most part though!) but without him, we suck.
 

canucksfan100

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Apr 3, 2007
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If Lowry walks we will have to rebuild.

If not, Carroll Patterson need to be gone. use Val, Poetl, Powell and others as trade chips. Bring back Tucker, maybe Ibaka if he wants around what he's getting paid now
 

TOGuy14

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Dec 30, 2010
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We are at a point right now where we have to decide whether we should preserve the core (ie. resign Kyle Lowry, keep DeMar DeRozan for now) or blow it up (ie. let Kyle Lowry walk, try to trade DeMar DeRozan, etc) and hope to land a nice draft pick. lol. If we let Kyle Lowry walk, expect Game 3 and Game 4 to be a preview of what's to come for 2017-18. lol. His performance did regress in the playoffs (our entire team regressed for the most part though!) but without him, we suck.

If Lowry walks we will have to rebuild.

If not, Carroll Patterson need to be gone. use Val, Poetl, Powell and others as trade chips. Bring back Tucker, maybe Ibaka if he wants around what he's getting paid now

Just curious, but would you actually sign Lowry at these rates?

SIGN W/TORONTO
2017–18: $35,350,000
2018–19: (+8% raise, or $2,474,500) $38,178,000
2019–20: (+8% raise, or $2,474,500) $40,652,500
2020–21: (+8% raise, or $2,474,500) $43,127,000
2021–22: (+8% raise, or $2,474,500) $45,601,500
Total: 5 years, $202,909,000
Avg. salary: $40,581,800

http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/nbas-projected-salary-cap-affect-lowrys-next-contract/
 

RayzorIsDull

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Nov 16, 2007
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Yup amazing GM.
Forget it though. Your responding to someone who wants to give JVR a life time contract

Masai is a beauty. Happy to have him.

Masai is riding the coat tails of the Rudy Gay trade. What do you think of the Carroll contract? The guy can hardly move. How about the Poetl pick? A few of the pieces were already in place for him to work with he hasn't made this team a title contender.
 

theaub

34-38-61-10-13-15
Nov 21, 2008
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What's wrong with the Poeltl pick? He looked good when he played, just with JV on the roster he's somewhat redundant. Assuming they move JV in the offseason he'll get a lot more run next year.
 

stickty111

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Jan 23, 2017
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He needs to find a way to figure things out. 17-24 in the playoffs is not good enough. He has done a great job building a team that wins 204 regular season games over the past 4 seasons. But ultimately he has to find a way to build a truly elite team. LBJ is in the way no doubt but what would make him special if he could find a way to beat him. I am not ready to build statues for him just yet.

So your going to blame him we dont have a Lebron on the team. If your looking for someone to build a team to beat Lebron than you have unrealistic expectations. You cant blame Masai for unable to do the impossible. It wouldnt make him special, it would make him the best ever in history if was able to do that.
The best thing he can do is sign Lowry back and I guess Ibaka. Keep picking up pieces and retool if you need too. Figure out the weaknesses which is outside shooting, we are in Kennerd territory in the draft. Get a legitimate SF(its too bad Carroll forgot how play basketball). PF in Ibaka maybe. Upgrade on C if you can but JV is do able if we find a coach to use him more.
We have some young quality pieces in Wright who from what I have seen should be ready for a backup PG spot. Powell as much as he annoys me at times has good potential and should be getting regular minutes. Jakob is a good prospect with nice tools. Bebe is fine too. Siakam has intriguing potential.
As much as this sweep hurts, it isnt franchise devastating by any means. We can still stay competitive in the long haul with some tweaks here and there

However if Masai keeps Casey around, I will be the first to criticize him.
 

stickty111

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Jan 23, 2017
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Masai is riding the coat tails of the Rudy Gay trade. What do you think of the Carroll contract? The guy can hardly move. How about the Poetl pick? A few of the pieces were already in place for him to work with he hasn't made this team a title contender.

Bad contract. Big deal it happens. Poeltl pick is solid. Not sure why you hate on Toronto teams all the time. And with Lebron nobody is making this team a title contendor so why are you complaining?

Masai is a great GM sorry. Keep up the great work Masai.
Terrific GM that gave this team success. So yes I am happy with him. Good thing we didnt blow this core up after the sweep against Wizards eh;)
 

RayzorIsDull

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Nov 16, 2007
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Bad contract. Big deal it happens. Poeltl pick is solid. Not sure why you hate on Toronto teams all the time. And with Lebron nobody is making this team a title contendor so why are you complaining?

Masai is a great GM sorry. Keep up the great work Masai.
Terrific GM that gave this team success. So yes I am happy with him. Good thing we didnt blow this core up after the sweep against Wizards eh;)

Hate on Toronto teams???? I can't recall ever responding to any of your posts except that one so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

What is your opinion on Masai if DC comes back another year?

What core after the sweep of the Wizards? If Lowry leaves which is quite possible as the Raptors shouldn't give out that contract what is the Raptors core?
 

stickty111

Registered User
Jan 23, 2017
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What's wrong with the Poeltl pick? He looked good when he played, just with JV on the roster he's somewhat redundant. Assuming they move JV in the offseason he'll get a lot more run next year.

Someone just coming at the usual time of when something bad happened to Jays or Raps to spread the negativity I suppose.
 

likeabosski

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Jul 31, 2013
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Poeltl seems like a solid prospect. He looks like a ****ing terminator (and I'm not just saying that because he's Austrian). I'm guessing they drafted Poeltl as a backup plan in case JV didn't pan out (at #9 you have to draft best player available regardless though). But one of JV or Poeltl has to be made into trade bait I think. If you're going to trade either one of those guys, you have to get something good for them. We used a 9th overall pick on Poeltl and a 5th overall on JV.
 

LaPlante94

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Apr 12, 2011
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Casey will probably be here another season and then maybe replaced be Stackhouse who I'm assuming they're grooming to be our next coach.
 

theaub

34-38-61-10-13-15
Nov 21, 2008
18,881
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Toronto
Poeltl seems like a solid prospect. He looks like a ****ing terminator (and I'm not just saying that because he's Austrian). I'm guessing they drafted Poeltl as a backup plan in case JV didn't pan out (at #9 you have to draft best player available regardless though). But one of JV or Poeltl has to be made into trade bait I think. If you're going to trade either one of those guys, you have to get something good for them. We used a 9th overall pick on Poeltl and a 5th overall on JV.

One of JV/Poeltl/Siakam/Bebe is definitely gone this offseason (and probably two). Focus needs to be on finding a big man or two who can shoot the 3 (Ibaka or elsewhere).

I do wonder to an extent if you fire Casey perhaps JV can make the leap and even start to take the corner 3. In which case Poeltl probably needs to go since you optimally want to give a bit of a different look with the second unit.

Casey will probably be here another season and then maybe replaced be Stackhouse who I'm assuming they're grooming to be our next coach.

If Casey is our coach at this time tomorrow that's troubling.
 

LaPlante94

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Apr 12, 2011
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One of JV/Poeltl/Siakam/Bebe is definitely gone this offseason (and probably two). Focus needs to be on finding a big man or two who can shoot the 3 (Ibaka or elsewhere).

I do wonder to an extent if you fire Casey perhaps JV can make the leap and even start to take the corner 3. In which case Poeltl probably needs to go since you optimally want to give a bit of a different look with the second unit.



If Casey is our coach at this time tomorrow that's troubling.

Don't really know if there's any better options out there atm but I'm probably wrong about that. If they are grooming Stackhouse I'm sure they'd want him to coach another year in the D league but again maybe not.
 

likeabosski

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Jul 31, 2013
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JV is pretty good at shooting from mid-range. He should try shooting some 3s in the regular season.
 

Radiohead

Street Spirit
Sep 6, 2008
3,171
242
DeMarre Carroll has to go, that and Lowry signing for max is the two main things that should and will happen, that will leave us at $85M/110M committed. (25M left or so)

Lowry / Cory/ Delon
DeRozan / Powell / Kennard
Ingles / Tucker / Bruno
Mbah-Moute / Amir or Patterson / x
Val / Nog / Poetl

Luke Kennard $2M (Draft)
Joe Ingles $12M
Mbah-Moute $5M
Patterson / Amir $5M
Tucker $5M

The fact is unless we move Val, we are going to have to go weak at one of PF or SF. This lineup is a good defensive team while adding 3 good shooters in Kennard, Ingles and Mbah. Amir and Patterson are pretty much washes, whoever we can get for cheaper, Amir probably a better shooter than Pat.

I think you are severely underestimating what these guys will get in free agency. With the inflated cap, Tucker and PPat will easily get around $10 million from some team. No way we can afford that.

Assuming Masai pulls off a miracle and trades Carroll's full contract, and assuming we re-sign Lowry at the max (~$30 million), that already puts us at around $91 million, leaving about $10 million to find an impact big.
 

Daisy Jane

everything is gonna be okay!
Jul 2, 2009
70,212
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Whatever happens, I just hope Casey isn't back.


:shakehead



okay...
but wasn't there a huge part of the regular season they were playing ugly?
isn't their goal to try to get to the ECF/...whatever they call the basketball championships?

y'all don't get to take solace in a decent regular season anymore, y'all.
 
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