Hurricanes sale formally closed, Tom Dundon now majority owner

[bluedevil58]

I only know one thing foe certain. Raleigh ie a much better market than Quebec City. I think it's mainly do to the financial situation of both markets. Many don't realize it but the RTP and surrounding areas is considered wealthy in terms of other cities/areas in the USA.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

surprised the discussion from the QC thread never moved over here after legitimate facts and data were brought into it rather than conjecture and blind ignorance

wait

no, i'm not.

 

[powerstuck]

I only know one thing foe certain. Raleigh ie a much better market than Quebec City. I think it's mainly do to the financial situation of both markets. Many don't realize it but the RTP and surrounding areas is considered wealthy in terms of other cities/areas in the USA.

Better market or better region ?

If we're talking financial/economical status and exclude sports arguments, yes, in every aspect Raleigh is a better region than Quebec City, it's more diversified, stronger economically speaking and what not.

If we add sports ? Well, basketball, football, car racing (all of them on all levels considered) I agree once again.
If we talk purely hockey, there is place for debate but in my hearth Quebec is a better hockey market.

 

[Melrose Munch]

I only know one thing foe certain. Raleigh ie a much better market than Quebec City. I think it's mainly do to the financial situation of both markets. Many don't realize it but the RTP and surrounding areas is considered wealthy in terms of other cities/areas in the USA.

Who cares about this? Hartford is in the richest state. Right now it's about the fact Carolina has a new owner and they should be able to stablize.

 

[bluedevil58]

Better market or better region ?

If we're talking financial/economical status and exclude sports arguments, yes, in every aspect Raleigh is a better region than Quebec City, it's more diversified, stronger economically speaking and what not.

If we add sports ? Well, basketball, football, car racing (all of them on all levels considered) I agree once again.
If we talk purely hockey, there is place for debate but in my hearth Quebec is a better hockey market.

You csnt prove that. History has proven that area isn't the greatest. If it was then what happened to the Nordiques? I seriously do not know the history on them....

 

[blueandgoldguy]

You csnt prove that. History has proven that area isn't the greatest. If it was then what happened to the Nordiques? I seriously do not know the history on them....

The Nordiques moved because a new arena wasn't primarily financed by the public to replaced the badly dated Le Colisee. With regards to attendance, Qb was middle-of-the-road with respect to other NHL teams despite playing in an NHL arena that barely seated over 15,000. Once expansion to the arena was completed partway through the 1980-81 season the lowest average attendance experienced by the Avalanche was 13,666. Outside of that the Nordiques consistently averaged 14,500 - 15,000+ for pretty well all of their existence. Very impressive considering some of the awful teams they iced and the arena they played in.

 

[bluedevil58]

The Nordiques moved because a new arena wasn't primarily financed by the public to replaced the badly dated Le Colisee. With regards to attendance, Qb was middle-of-the-road with respect to other NHL teams despite playing in an NHL arena that barely seated over 15,000. Once expansion to the arena was completed partway through the 1980-81 season the lowest average attendance experienced by the Avalanche was 13,666. Outside of that the Nordiques consistently averaged 14,500 - 15,000+ for pretty well all of their existence. Very impressive considering some of the awful teams they iced and the arena they played in.

The Nordiques moved because a new arena wasn't primarily financed by the public to replaced the badly dated Le Colisee. With regards to attendance, Qb was middle-of-the-road with respect to other NHL teams despite playing in an NHL arena that barely seated over 15,000. Once expansion to the arena was completed partway through the 1980-81 season the lowest average attendance experienced by the Avalanche was 13,666. Outside of that the Nordiques consistently averaged 14,500 - 15,000+ for pretty well all of their existence. Very impressive considering some of the awful teams they iced and the arena they played in.

Thanks for that. Losing a team can be devastating. At an early age I have fond memories of going to Canes games with mt dad in Greensboro and also when they moved to Raleigh. I remember seeing sun burnt Toronto fans during the ECF that one year. They thought they were in some sort of tropical paradise here. Hopefully one day you guys will get an expansion team. I wish relocation on nobody.

 

[cbcwpg]

What recent NHL franchise news means for Seattle, Quebec City and Houston - Sportsnet.ca

And while no one will admit it publicly, Karmanos’ partners on the NHL board were growing a bit impatient over money owed to the league. The timing of the Thomas Dundon purchase was perfect for all involved and Karmanos was able to maintain a percentage of the team, though he was forced to relinquish control.

***

So what money did / does Karmanos owe the league?

 

[bluedevil58]

Reports were the deal included 200 to 250M of debt.

 

[SladeWilson23]

If there was a ready MLB ballpark they would be gone.

Rays get good tv ratings despite not drawing much at the ballpark.

 

[Svechhammer]

Rays get good tv ratings despite not drawing much at the ballpark.

And I imagine, if the Rays were going to move, Charlotte would likely be the top spot. They're already supposedly up next in potential MLB expansion plans, and the Tampa farm system kind of lends itself toward being moved to Charlotte, with the Durham Bulls being their AAA affiliate, effectively aligning (albeit in reverse) of the same kind of pro-minor pipeline that the Canes have with the Checkers, and the Hornets have with Greensboro.

 

[MNNumbers]

And I imagine, if the Rays were going to move, Charlotte would likely be the top spot. They're already supposedly up next in potential MLB expansion plans, and the Tampa farm system kind of lends itself toward being moved to Charlotte, with the Durham Bulls being their AAA affiliate, effectively aligning (albeit in reverse) of the same kind of pro-minor pipeline that the Canes have with the Checkers, and the Hornets have with Greensboro.

I don't know where in Charlotte they would play, though. Most recently, the tax payers build a AAA park, and it's not expandable.

There has been lots of speculation about Montreal, but not much happening.

It's a bigger question than I would have answers for.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I'll believe Charlotte is getting an MLB team when I see the first pitch. They've talked a big game about it for decades, but nothing about the city or their stadium situation indicates that MLB is even a possibility in the foreseeable future.

 

[edog37]

Fair re: southern teams, but there is merit to the Bettman = supervillain part though. I mean when you spend 15 years defending the situation in Arizona refusing to even entertain relocation, but then there's 6 months of ownership/arena unrest in Calgary and you immediately proceed go publicly threaten relocation out of Calgary, you fully deserve the anti-Canadian label you get as well as the scrutiny from Canadian fans. Plain and simple.

Except that narrative makes no sense. The NHL had a direct ownership interest in the Coyotes as well as the relocation question by an outsider. They were directly impacted. In Calgary, you have a CURRENT owner who has grown frustrated negotiating with the local politicians. Bettman never told the Flames they have to threaten relocation, this was ownership's call. You can argue the merits all day long of why the public shouldn't finance these arenas (I tend to agree), but the truth is, this is the cost of having a team. If Calgary doesn't want to pay the cost, that's their call. But it doesn't mean the ownership has to keep playing there also. At the end of the day, the bottom line will always win out.

 

[NotOpie]

Who cares about this? Hartford is in the richest state. Right now it's about the fact Carolina has a new owner and they should be able to stablize.

It's more about overall demographics in addition to wealth. The RDU area is affluent, young, and, most importantly, growing in leaps and bounds. Both the potential of actual attendance and the growth of the TV market play into these decisions....and that growth is from a group with fat wallets.

 

[LadyStanley]

31 Thoughts: Karlsson and Senators face big-picture questions - Sportsnet.ca

Friedman reporting on sales price for team.

Let’s clear up one thing about the Carolina sale. In the presentation to the governors, the team was valued at US$460 million for 50.01 per cent, and US$550 million for the remaining 49.99 per cent within the next three years. That’s $230 million now and the possibility of $275 million later. However, it is expected that Dundon actually will be purchasing 52 per cent at this time. The valuations stay the same, but adjust the payment amounts.

So, $90m increase over three years.

 

[Unsustainable]

Should be a done deal in 1-2 weeks.

 

[GoldiFox]

A new Billionaire owner itching to throw money around. Great for Canes fans and great for the NHL.

 

[Negan4Coach]

Should be a done deal in 1-2 weeks.

Oh snap.

Repeat after me folks" The Canes are nevar moving."

Nevar...

 

[CandyCanes]

Oh snap.

Repeat after me folks" The Canes are nevar moving."

Nevar...

They're gonna move..... To downtown Raleigh someday

 

[GuelphStormer]

31 Thoughts: Karlsson and Senators face big-picture questions - Sportsnet.ca

Friedman reporting on sales price for team.


So, $90m increase over three years.

does this mean the franchise is supposed to have a current total value of $920M?

 

[garnetpalmetto]

does this mean the franchise is supposed to have a current total value of $920M?

I don't think that's what's being said, GS. I think it's a clumsily written couple of sentences and I can see where you'd be mistaken but I think what it's saying is that the team is currently valued at $460M and in the presentation to the Board of Governors Dundon proposed that he'd purchase 50.01% for $230M (460,000,000 × 0.5001 = 230,046,000.00). The valuation is to increase over the next 3 years to $550M and Dundon will purchase the remaining 49.99% of the team for $275,000,000.00 (550,000,000 × 0.4999 = 274,945,000.00). Thus Dundon's total all-in would be $504,991,000.00. However, per Friedman, Dundon now plans to purchase 52% of the team initially, so he'd be putting down $239,200,000.00 first and then $264,000.000 for the remaining 48% for an all-in of $503,200,000.00. Hopefully that makes a bit more sense.

The one bit of the sale that I'm murky on is if Dundon is also purchasing the ECHL Florida Everblades and their home, Germain Arena in Estero, FL. Both are, at least last I checked, owned by Karmanos/GFSE and both were up for sale. Filings with the Florida Secretary of State's Office indicates the Everblades are still owned/managed by KT Sports & Entertainment, headquartered at 1400 Edwards Mill Rd in Raleigh (that's GFSE's offices at PNC Arena and I'd assume KT is short for Karmanos & Thewes).

 

[GuelphStormer]

I don't think that's what's being said, GS. I think it's a clumsily written couple of sentences and I can see where you'd be mistaken but I think what it's saying is that the team is currently valued at $460M and in the presentation to the Board of Governors Dundon proposed that he'd purchase 50.01% for $230M (460,000,000 × 0.5001 = 230,046,000.00). The valuation is to increase over the next 3 years to $550M and Dundon will purchase the remaining 49.99% of the team for $275,000,000.00 (550,000,000 × 0.4999 = 274,945,000.00). Thus Dundon's total all-in would be $504,991,000.00. However, per Friedman, Dundon now plans to purchase 52% of the team initially, so he'd be putting down $239,200,000.00 first and then $264,000.000 for the remaining 48% for an all-in of $503,200,000.00. Hopefully that makes a bit more sense.

thanks for taking the time to write this. I appreciate it.

ok, so @ $460M to $503M, is that just for the franchise itself? what else does it include? isn't there some sort of management company now in the mix as well?

first glance, this all seems reasonable. it isn't like the silly $305M valuation the league pulled recently in phoenix or the unexpected $500M expansion fee, it's more realistic.

 

[MNNumbers]

thanks for taking the time to write this. I appreciate it.

ok, so @ $460M to $503M, is that just for the franchise itself? what else does it include? isn't there some sort of management company now in the mix as well?

first glance, this all seems reasonable. it isn't like the silly $305M valuation the league pulled recently in phoenix or the unexpected $500M expansion fee, it's more realistic.

I don't know but I would have to assume that the purchase is actually for Gale Force Sports and Entertainment, for 2 reasons...

1- I believe the lease with the arena requires team ownership to manage the arena
2- The team is not profitable by itself. It's the management rights that make it worthwhile

 

[garnetpalmetto]

thanks for taking the time to write this. I appreciate it.

ok, so @ $460M to $503M, is that just for the franchise itself? what else does it include? isn't there some sort of management company now in the mix as well?

first glance, this all seems reasonable. it isn't like the silly $305M valuation the league pulled recently in phoenix or the unexpected $500M expansion fee, it's more realistic.

I don't know but I would have to assume that the purchase is actually for Gale Force Sports and Entertainment, for 2 reasons...

1- I believe the lease with the arena requires team ownership to manage the arena
2- The team is not profitable by itself. It's the management rights that make it worthwhile

You're both a little right and a little wrong. AFAIK it, the management company (Gale Force Sports & Entertainment) was always part of it. GFSE is the arm under which the team manages PNC Arena and even in years where the Hurricanes didn't turn a profit the organization on the whole did thanks to GFSE. That said, it's not correct to say the team isn't profitable by itself. Prior to last year the team would routinely turn a profit provided they made the playoffs. Last year the team also turned a profit (to my knowledge before revenue sharing and the team's share of the expansion fees but @DaveG or @tarheelhockey can probably correct me on that point if my memory (currently under the influence of cold medicine) is wrong) thanks in part to stronger season ticket sales and the a sharp reduction in the number of comps offered.