Prospect Info: Under 25 y/o Sens Players 2021 Ranking : #7

[Qward]

Is it because Pinto is being voted over him as the 7th best asset in the organization? I expect the whole top-15 to be pretty good pieces. If he ends up around #8-10, it's no disrespect at all.

Colin White is getting votes over Brannstrom....

 

[HSF]

I think brannstrom

He has shown more so far than pinto imo

 

[playasRus]

Logan Brown's biggest achievement in his career might end up being "being a top 10 prospect for the Ottawa Senators" for greater than a half decade as it seems he's never going to amount to being more than a prospect.

And to shoot him with a stray while he's down, couldn't even make it as a top 10 pick for his draft class.

K I'm done shitting on him. No more LB posts from me.

You misunderstood my post, I meant no disrespect to these polls, on the contrary, I enjoy them alot and respect the effort you put in to organize them.

If the 2019 polls shows anything, it's that guys outside the top 10 are a long shot to be key contributors to the team, but will likely still be journeymen/depth guys. Gus being the exception but goalies are really hard to gauge.

Going back for fun:

Outside the top 10 from 2016 still with team:
#11 Dzingel (24 yo; technically with the team and he DID have a major contribution as a top 9 forward before leaving to make bank)
#23 Daccord (20 yo)
Impact player outside Ottawa: Driedger
Role player outside Ottawa: Harpur, Robinson,

Outside the top 10 from 2017 still with team:
#13 Formenton (17 yo)
#17 Batherson (19 yo)
# 24 Daccord (21 yo)

Outside the top 10 from 2018 still with team:
#12 Tychonick (18 yo)
#19 Crookshank (18 yo)
#22 Paul (23 yo)
# 24 Daccord (22 yo)
#25 Kelly (19 yo)

Outside the top 10 from 2019 still with team:
#11 Gustafsson (21 yo)
#15 Sogaard (18 yo)
#17 Pinto (18 yo)
#19 Daccord (23 yo)
#20 Tychonick (19 yo)
#21 Crookshank (19 yo)
#24 Paul (24 yo)
#25 Kelly (20 yo)
#28 Mandolese (19 yo)

So basically anyone outside of goalies who hasn't made the team by 20 years of age ranked outside he top 10 in our prospect/U25 pool basically will likely never amount to much with the team (I don't think any has gone on to amount to much with other teams either).

Our two exceptions to this rule have been Paul and Dzingel.

By that trend, Parker Kelly (going on 22 yo this season) is unlikely to amount much with the Senators unless he ends up being another Paul/Dzingel gem, both of whom solidified themselves as NHL players in their 23 yo season.

 

[Xspyrit]

You misunderstood my post, I meant no disrespect to these polls, on the contrary, I enjoy them alot and respect the effort you put in to organize them.

My response was specifically to the comment that Logan Brown is "still a top 10 prospect" because this list is "not a prospect list". I countered that by saying that he does not crack the under 25 top 10, and almost everyone in the top 10 here is younger than him.

We would have to make a "separate" poll and disqualify Tkachuk, Chabot, Stutzle, Norris, Batherson etc. just so we can have a list where Logan Brown is in the top 10.

Not a big deal really, my original comment was just an observation that was somewhat misinterpreted.

No it's ok I didn't take personally but was focusing on the "feel better" that I found a bit too much, nothing serious though. Now I see that you were probably "half joking" to make your point. I might have taken it too literally. I read that post last night, wanted to asnwer but was too tired, so went to bed and quoted it this morning without reading it again. Result : misunderstanding lol

But agreed he won't make the top-10 here, maybe not even the top-15. I believe he could still prove himself but he needs to be able to stop getting injured all the time first.

Colin White is getting votes over Brannstrom....

I wouldn't read too much into it. Pinto has 62.2% of the votes out of 74 voters (so far). Brannstrom has 13 votes which is not bad considering Pinto's domination. There's only 2 votes for White, one could be a "joke vote" like we often see, the other could be a big White fan who still believe in him.

Let's not forget that White is probably the most proven NHL player among the options left. I think his overall game has evolved the last few years and in terms of production, since his rookie season in 2018-19, he has 82 pts in 177 GP, which is 38 pts per 82 GP on average. That's solid 3rd line numbers

The only reason people see him so "negatively" is because he got paid right away, instead of getting a bridge and more reasonable RFA years salaries. But let's not forget his extension was contextual, the team went into a massive firesale and I believe it was needed to be able to ink Chabot to a 8 years deal. Ownership had to prove that we were really building something new and we were not going to be a NHL players producer for other teams.

 

[Xspyrit]

If the 2019 polls shows anything, it's that guys outside the top 10 are a long shot to be key contributors to the team, but will likely still be journeymen/depth guys. Gus being the exception but goalies are really hard to gauge.

Based on the rest of your post that I cut, I'm not sure which polls you are talking about, the prospect pool or the u-25 list that is linked in the OP?

One MAJOR point I wanted/needed to add here is that 2-3 years ago, we really weren't anywhere close in the rebuild to where we're at now

From the 2019 U-25 list

1- Thomas Chabot (D) 91.7%
2- Brady Tkachuk (LW) 37.3%
3- Erik Brännström (D) 70.8%
4- Drake Batherson (RW) 70.8%
5- Colin White (C/RW) 48.1 %
6- Logan Brown (C) 67.4%
7- Christian Wolanin (D) 61.2% (Tie-Breaker)
8- Jacob Bernard-Docker (D) 40.6%
9- Josh Norris (C) 34.1%
10- Alex Formenton (LW) 28.8%
11- Rudolfs Balcers (LW) 56.2% (Tie-Breaker)
12- Anthony Duclair (LW/RW) 33.3%
13- Christian Jaros (D) 53.3% (Tie-Breaker)
14- Chris Tierney (C) 54.3% (Tie-Breaker)
15- Marcus Högberg (G) 47.2%
16- Maxime Lajoie (D) 46.2%
17- Filip Gustavsson (G) 46.2%
18- Filip Chlapík (C) 65.4% (Tie-Breaker)

Abramov, Crookshank, Nick Paul, Daccord and Gruden were still options to be voted. IIRC, my top-13 was a bit similar to this then disagreed after 14th. I had been voting Chlapik, then Lajoie, then Crookshank, then I suppose I would have gone with Tierney, Abramov, Paul, Daccord, Gruden

Keep in mind, it was done before the 2019 draft so we added all the 2019 and 2020 picks since, and I believe our 2020 draft is going to go down as our best draft in history and quite likely high in NHL history. Tim Stutzle, Jake Sanderson, Ridly Greig, Egor Sokolov, Tyler Kleven, Roby Jarventie, Leevi Merilainen, Philippe Daoust and Cole Reinhardt... That could be QUITE the haul.

The 2019 U-25 list is not comparable to what we have now. In 219, it got "shady" after the first 12 guys but now it's much better overall and also deeper.

 

[playasRus]

Based on the rest of your post that I cut, I'm not sure which polls you are talking about, the prospect pool or the u-25 list that is linked in the OP?

One MAJOR point I wanted/needed to add here is that 2-3 years ago, we really weren't anywhere close in the rebuild to where we're at now

I was using the HF Senators top prospect polls of years past which would have an even shallower outside of top 10 pool since it's not diluted by established guys like Tierney/Chabot/Tkachuk, so that may skew the outside top 10 to be weaker than a U25 list.

With that in mind, if this current list was a prospects only, it would debatably not include Chabot, Norris, Batherson, or Tkachuk, although for example, our 2018 top prospects list included Chabot and White, both of whom were already locks for the 2018-2019 roster with about 1+ seasons of experience each, and so Stutzle, Norris and Batherson could probably be kept on our "top prospects" list by this measure.

In the end, it still goes to show that guys not considered top 10 prospects, especially if they're older and not fresh 18-19 year old 2nd-3rd round picks, are unlikely to stick. But I do understand your point that our previous lists were barren since we weren't in rebuilds so our prospect pools were unremarkable.

 

[Xspyrit]

I was using the HF Senators top prospect polls of years past which would have an even shallower outside of top 10 pool since it's not diluted by established guys like Tierney/Chabot/Tkachuk, so that may skew the outside top 10 to be weaker than a U25 list.

With that in mind, if this current list was a prospects only, it would debatably not include Chabot, Norris, Batherson, or Tkachuk, although for example, our 2018 top prospects list included Chabot and White, both of whom were already locks for the 2018-2019 roster with about 1+ seasons of experience each, and so Stutzle, Norris and Batherson could probably be kept on our "top prospects" list by this measure.

In the end, it still goes to show that guys not considered top 10 prospects, especially if they're older and not fresh 18-19 year old 2nd-3rd round picks, are unlikely to stick. But I do understand your point that our previous lists were barren since we weren't in rebuilds so our prospect pools were unremarkable.

ok looking at prospects pools only is a different conversation but I understand your point. You have to keep in mind that teams rarely have a pool comparable to what the Sens have actually. It's been stacked because of the firesale, normally rebuilding teams don't have the LUXURY to have a Karlsson/Duchene/Stone in their prime to trade (not to mention Hoffman, Zibanejad/Brassard, Dzingel, Pageau, Ceci)

Looking at 2018 vs 2020, the pool massively improved because of the quality of picks/prospects acquired (Norris and Stutzle to name the most obvious) but even in 2018, we already had a good pool (Chabot, Tkachuk, Batherson, Formenton, Brown, White, Gustavsson, JBD, Wolanin and Chlapik in the top-10). Looking at picks "outside the top-10", it looks like Gruden, Crookshank, Paul, Daccord and Kelly were still good/decent prospects but not much outside of them (maybe Jaros and/or Lajoie end up playing in the NHL more)

That being said, if you look at the 2020 pool, it's a different story :

11- Roby Jarventie
12- Rudolfs Balcers
13- Vitali Abramov
14- Joey Daccord
15- Lassi Thomson
16- Egor Sokolov
17- Tyler Kleven
18- Filip Chlapik
19- Mads Søgaard
20- Filip Gustavsson
21- Max Lajoie
22- Kevin Mandolese
23- Angus Crookshank
24- Maxence Guénette
25- Jonathan Davidsson
26- Leevi Merilainen
27- Jonny Tychonick
28- Philippe Daoust
29- Parker Kelly
30- Mark Kastelic

There's going to be several NHL players in there and some quality ones. Balcers, Jarventie, Gustavsson, Sogaard, Sokolov, Kleven, Crookshank and Daoust are pretty good prospects (or are going to be in the near future). Some will tell you that Abramov, Daccord and Thomson are too. And even guys like Kelly, Kastelic, Guenette, Merilainen and Mandolese might end up playing

That's why I have been repeating it's "one-of-a-kind" pool, not only the top-10 is pretty damn good but the 10-30 is going to blow out past pools out of the water. Sure, some will end up "disappointing" but overall, that 11-30 is probably better than a few other NHL pools lol

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Who's calling this one?

 

[SensontheRush]

Logan Brown's biggest achievement in his career might end up being "being a top 10 prospect for the Ottawa Senators" for greater than a half decade as it seems he's never going to amount to being more than a prospect.

And to shoot him with a stray while he's down, couldn't even make it as a top 10 pick for his draft class.

K I'm done shitting on him. No more LB posts from me.



If the 2019 polls shows anything, it's that guys outside the top 10 are a long shot to be key contributors to the team, but will likely still be journeymen/depth guys. Gus being the exception but goalies are really hard to gauge.

Going back for fun:

Outside the top 10 from 2016 still with team:
#11 Dzingel (24 yo; technically with the team and he DID have a major contribution as a top 9 forward before leaving to make bank)
#23 Daccord (20 yo)
Impact player outside Ottawa: Driedger
Role player outside Ottawa: Harpur, Robinson,

Outside the top 10 from 2017 still with team:
#13 Formenton (17 yo)
#17 Batherson (19 yo)
# 24 Daccord (21 yo)

Outside the top 10 from 2018 still with team:
#12 Tychonick (18 yo)
#19 Crookshank (18 yo)
#22 Paul (23 yo)
# 24 Daccord (22 yo)
#25 Kelly (19 yo)

Outside the top 10 from 2019 still with team:
#11 Gustafsson (21 yo)
#15 Sogaard (18 yo)
#17 Pinto (18 yo)
#19 Daccord (23 yo)
#20 Tychonick (19 yo)
#21 Crookshank (19 yo)
#24 Paul (24 yo)
#25 Kelly (20 yo)
#28 Mandolese (19 yo)

So basically anyone outside of goalies who hasn't made the team by 20 years of age ranked outside he top 10 in our prospect/U25 pool basically will likely never amount to much with the team (I don't think any has gone on to amount to much with other teams either).

Our two exceptions to this rule have been Paul and Dzingel.

By that trend, Parker Kelly (going on 22 yo this season) is unlikely to amount much with the Senators unless he ends up being another Paul/Dzingel gem, both of whom solidified themselves as NHL players in their 23 yo season.

Paul solidified himself as an NHL player in his 25 yo season.

 

[SensontheRush]

ok looking at prospects pools only is a different conversation but I understand your point. You have to keep in mind that teams rarely have a pool comparable to what the Sens have actually. It's been stacked because of the firesale, normally rebuilding teams don't have the LUXURY to have a Karlsson/Duchene/Stone in their prime to trade (not to mention Hoffman, Zibanejad/Brassard, Dzingel, Pageau, Ceci)

Looking at 2018 vs 2020, the pool massively improved because of the quality of picks/prospects acquired (Norris and Stutzle to name the most obvious) but even in 2018, we already had a good pool (Chabot, Tkachuk, Batherson, Formenton, Brown, White, Gustavsson, JBD, Wolanin and Chlapik in the top-10). Looking at picks "outside the top-10", it looks like Gruden, Crookshank, Paul, Daccord and Kelly were still good/decent prospects but not much outside of them (maybe Jaros and/or Lajoie end up playing in the NHL more)

That being said, if you look at the 2020 pool, it's a different story :

11- Roby Jarventie
12- Rudolfs Balcers
13- Vitali Abramov
14- Joey Daccord
15- Lassi Thomson
16- Egor Sokolov
17- Tyler Kleven
18- Filip Chlapik
19- Mads Søgaard
20- Filip Gustavsson
21- Max Lajoie
22- Kevin Mandolese
23- Angus Crookshank
24- Maxence Guénette
25- Jonathan Davidsson
26- Leevi Merilainen
27- Jonny Tychonick
28- Philippe Daoust
29- Parker Kelly
30- Mark Kastelic

There's going to be several NHL players in there and some quality ones. Balcers, Jarventie, Gustavsson, Sogaard, Sokolov, Kleven, Crookshank and Daoust are pretty good prospects (or are going to be in the near future). Some will tell you that Abramov, Daccord and Thomson are too. And even guys like Kelly, Kastelic, Guenette, Merilainen and Mandolese might end up playing

That's why I have been repeating it's "one-of-a-kind" pool, not only the top-10 is pretty damn good but the 10-30 is going to blow out past pools out of the water. Sure, some will end up "disappointing" but overall, that 11-30 is probably better than a few other NHL pools lol

You joined back in 2008. You know what a prospect pool where Jim O'Brien is the 1# ranked player looks like. What we have today is the exact opposite.

 

[swiftwin]

Sogaard