UNB ordered to reinstate women's hockey

STUTOMMIES

Registered User
Jul 23, 2008
571
1
Fredericton
How on earth was that apt? It is a quote from real atrocities in Nazi Germany. :shakehead

So the only meaning in that quote is about what happened in Nazi Germany? With that sort of thinking I'm starting to understand your point of view better.

Out of curiosity if I quoted "All we have to fear is fear itself" I would only be referring to the great depression? Please feel free not to answer, one of us needs to stop.
 

Magic365

Registered User
Feb 15, 2016
13
0
If people wanted to watch Women's hockey at UNB, they would have went to games. The University had every right to axe a sub-par product that didn't bring fans to games.

This jamboree, everyone is a winner attitude by the court, reminds me of participant medals you got when you were 6 for coming last place.

At a certain point the politically correctness has to be toned down, until then I guess University Sports will be controlled by the state.

It's only a matter of time before someone sues for lack of Ice time.
 

Hollywood3

Bison/Jet/Moose Fan
May 12, 2007
6,441
941
IMO nobody has a right to play sports at somebody else's expense. Female sport at all levels depends upon government money, otherwise it would disappear. Whether this is an argument in favour of or against government money depends on your POV.

I would suggest that "equal opportunity" would exist if there were one female team for every 6 or 7 male teams.
 

VRedsRule

Registered User
Aug 26, 2008
157
26
This is not about bad, bad unb as stutommies implies. This is about every single institution in the country that has cut back on varsity sports. Mt a has women's hockey but no men's. There are seven aus schools with women's volleyball but three with men's. So what does this ruling say???

I struggle with this ruling and the window it could open nationwide. Hopefully others don't contest it. But all it takes is one.
 

UNB Bruins Fan

Registered User
Mar 11, 2008
14,024
1,591
Fredericton, NB
This is not about bad, bad unb as stutommies implies. This is about every single institution in the country that has cut back on varsity sports. Mt a has women's hockey but no men's. There are seven aus schools with women's volleyball but three with men's. So what does this ruling say???

I struggle with this ruling and the window it could open nationwide. Hopefully others don't contest it. But all it takes is one.

Yep...I don't agree that a judge/court can force a university to carry certain sports. Could set an interesting precedent going forward.
 

Squirrel Forever

Registered User
Dec 1, 2008
150
5
Fredericton, NB
A victory for Women's Hockey

The return of women's hockey to UNB is great for young women wishing to play at the CIS level while attending UNB...

HOWEVER,

Any claim this was a sexist decision, or that it was because women were the ones playing hockey, is foolish, misinformed, and merely fodder for attention.
 

STUTOMMIES

Registered User
Jul 23, 2008
571
1
Fredericton
This is not about bad, bad unb as stutommies implies. This is about every single institution in the country that has cut back on varsity sports. Mt a has women's hockey but no men's. There are seven aus schools with women's volleyball but three with men's. So what does this ruling say???

I struggle with this ruling and the window it could open nationwide. Hopefully others don't contest it. But all it takes is one.

The implication is correct based on my point of view. Bad bad UNB should not have did what they did. That's my position on this and has been from the start. I haven't deviated.

Now UNB will have the same fan attendance as everyone else in CIS women's hockey and you men can continue not to support it (your choice), then tell us all how it is much bigger drain on UNB resources then the other WH teams in the country. So unfair.

I really must say this again, do you honestly think that UNB's lawyers didn't argue everyone of these points if in fact they were valid? Yes they did, you know they did. Do you not think that the human rights complaint had no merit behind it and still won? That makes no sense at all yet you cling to the arguments. Too keep it light they were UNB trained lawyers, what did you expect? :laugh:
 

Squirrel Forever

Registered User
Dec 1, 2008
150
5
Fredericton, NB
Now UNB will have the same fan attendance as everyone else in CIS women's hockey and you men can continue not to support it (your choice), then tell us all how it is much bigger drain on UNB resources then the other WH teams in the country. So unfair.

I must have missed the part where we all said we had no support for women's hockey. Perhaps you should speak for yourself, for a change.
 

Rob

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
8,954
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New Brunswick
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I admit that I find it boring. I do watch other women's sports. Spent last week watching a lot of the Scotties. Watched the women's world cup last year. Watch more women's tennis than men's. The reason I can't watch women's hockey is because unlike the other sports it is just too different from the men's version. This is largely due to the lack of physical play. The only games I can watch are Canada vs US at the Olympics and that is more to due with what is at stake.
 
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STUTOMMIES

Registered User
Jul 23, 2008
571
1
Fredericton
Big crowd at this CIS women's hockey game between UBC and Guelph. Looks like about 15 in attendance.

Exactly Radapex, exactly. Follow UNB's lead and cancel all of CIS Women's Hockey. There is no alternative. Axe it, fry it, dissolve it, toast it. Nobody goes so it shouldn't be there. UNB was just and if Canadians were fair, CIS women's hockey should be cut.

Let's start the petition tomorrow? Who's with me?
 

Rants Mulliniks

Registered User
Jun 22, 2008
22,958
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Here's some fun numbers:

Attendance at men's games

6096
6022
5823
5817
3834
3513

5184 avg

Attendance at women's games

2096
752
470
441
329
302
281
250

615 avg

You'll never hear me argue hockey shouldn't be available but there is a varsity team that people can play on.

*UPDATED attendance figures

If you looked at the last two games played and assumed a $20 ticket (that's the cost of an individual adult ticket for men's, women's says $20 for day pass which I am not even sure what that means) the men's game brought in just over $120,000 in paid admission, the women's game brought in just over $5,600.
 
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Rants Mulliniks

Registered User
Jun 22, 2008
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I admit that I find it boring. I do watch other women's sports. Spent last week watching a lot of the Scotties. Watched the women's world cup last year. Watch more women's tennis than men's. The reason I can't watch women's hockey is because unlike the other sports it is just too different from the men's version. This is largely due to the lack of physical play. The only games I can watch are Canada vs US at the Olympics and that is more to due with what is at stake.

It's not just style it's skill level. It's precisely why I made the comment that you can watch similar caliber teams in Fredericton already.
 

Rants Mulliniks

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Jun 22, 2008
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Now UNB will have the same fan attendance as everyone else in CIS women's hockey and you men can continue not to support it (your choice), then tell us all how it is much bigger drain on UNB resources then the other WH teams in the country. So unfair.

Men, women, children, dogs, cats, the grey squirrels around Fredericton.....pretty much everyone. Almost every game featuring the best teams in the country has drawn less than 500 fans. It MUST be men that are at fault, right?
 

radapex

Registered User
Sep 21, 2012
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Canada, Eh
Exactly Radapex, exactly. Follow UNB's lead and cancel all of CIS Women's Hockey. There is no alternative. Axe it, fry it, dissolve it, toast it. Nobody goes so it shouldn't be there. UNB was just and if Canadians were fair, CIS women's hockey should be cut.

Let's start the petition tomorrow? Who's with me?

I'm not saying that. I'm saying it's ridiculous for the province to force UNB to reinstitution a women's team when it's pretty clear that the "doesn't make enough money" argument is a pretty strong/valid one.
 

Rants Mulliniks

Registered User
Jun 22, 2008
22,958
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OK, I will jump into your rabbit hole.

If caliber is the issue then every CIS women's hockey team should be cut. If it is a matter of self funding then every CIS women's hockey team should be cut and most likely a lot of other men's and women's CIS sports as well. University sports as a whole in this country simply do not make money. They cost money, some more than others. Hockey is an expensive sport, most CIS men's hockey teams don't make money, cut them. Simple. Then the 5 teams in the country that make money can play each other until we get bored of it and we can cut them too.

It's amateur sports, not pro, not semi-pro, no pro at all. Amateur.

As to the caliber you speak of, it wasn't all that long ago that women couldn't play (frowned upon, whatever) hockey because it was a "mans" sport. Sounds equal to me but further to make my point, the men have over 100 years of playing. Women, maybe 30 years give or take. The AUS didn't have a women's league until the early 2000's. Rome was not built in a day and neither was or will women's hockey.

Also, male hockey players are developed from a young age, the good ones segregated to get better, money thrown into their programs for development all because male sport is better caliber. Well it darn well should be because that is the way it has always been. I highly doubt that they will regress anytime soon. Meanwhile the women get second or third rate training after 12 years old, less opportunity, and funding then get asked why aren't you as good as the boys? Geez, I don't know?

It is a systemic problem, we aren't going to solve it on this board and I am not going to change your mind as to how you think. I am fine with that. My opinion is that women's hockey (specifically hockey because I love the sport) needs to be fostered, developed, and funded. You ask most female hockey players in the CIS and they will tell you this is their NHL because most of them (90% or more) will never be able/skilled/allowed/capable/accepted to play any higher because they are female.

There, I wrote a few things that I feel. I hope some of you readers think about the issue more. It isn't just about money or hockey talent. Those aren't the only issues here.

None of this really answers anything. What inherent right does anyone have to play something at a varsity level? Again, there IS a varsity team. Why does there need to be a separate one based on reproductive organs? Should there be a transsexual varsity league? What's the basis? Presumably SOMEONE is being done wrong by, even though there is a varsity team in existence that folks can play for if they are good enough. If they aren't, there is still yet ANOTHER team they can (and do) play for. Why should any student have to pay more money to support something like this (because that is where they will go for the funding)? Students have already voted previously with respect to the Red Bombers and a measly $10 and soundly said "no". Are the non-varsity men's teams being discriminated against?

While I know it wouldn't be representative of regular season attendance across the board, let's buy your premise of men's teams not making money and use the numbers from nationals. With 14 home games the men's side would be bringing in $16.8 million while the women's team would be bringing in roughly $67 thousand. Think about that. If the $16.8 million one was going in debt, somebody is telling me that students and a bankrupt province have to pick up an annual debt tab of almost $17 million simply because of reproductive organs. Even though there is a team where people can play hockey outside the varsity team and people are free to go to universities who can afford the debt. Again, to what end? So 20 some people can play varsity versus another league? I think there's a lot of students who would prefer that kind of money be spread to the masses to offset tuition.

Again, I realize those are national numbers being applied across the spectrum but it gives you an idea of what is being discussed here. Further, 50% or more of the population is female. Where are they at the games?
 
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STUTOMMIES

Registered User
Jul 23, 2008
571
1
Fredericton
I'm not saying that. I'm saying it's ridiculous for the province to force UNB to reinstitution a women's team when it's pretty clear that the "doesn't make enough money" argument is a pretty strong/valid one.

This is what you said "Big crowd at this CIS women's hockey game between UBC and Guelph. Looks like about 15 in attendance." You mentioned nothing about UNB. So what are you saying exactly? You made the comment, so 15 in attendance is in fact your point. So my point is cut CIS women's hockey. We don't need it, nobody follows it and only women play it. Stop wasting good money on it and cancel it. If you say don't cancel it, why? Otherwise support me in saying let's cancel it. It's not a UNB problem it is a national problem, GET RID OF WOMENS HOCKEY IT COSTS US GOOD PEOPLE MONEY.
 

STUTOMMIES

Registered User
Jul 23, 2008
571
1
Fredericton
None of this really answers anything. What inherent right does anyone have to play something at a varsity level? Again, there IS a varsity team. Why does there need to be a separate one based on reproductive organs? Should there be a transsexual varsity league? What's the basis? Presumably SOMEONE is being done wrong by, even though there is a varsity team in existence that folks can play for if they are good enough. If they aren't, there is still yet ANOTHER team they can (and do) play for. Why should any student have to pay more money to support something like this (because that is where they will go for the funding)? Students have already voted previously with respect to the Red Bombers and a measly $10 and soundly said "no". Are the non-varsity men's teams being discriminated against?

While I know it wouldn't be representative of regular season attendance across the board, let's buy your premise of men's teams not making money and use the numbers from nationals. With 14 home games the men's side would be bringing in $16.8 million while the women's team would be bringing in roughly $67 thousand. Think about that. If the $16.8 million one was going in debt, somebody is telling me that students and a bankrupt province have to pick up an annual debt tab of almost $17 million simply because of reproductive organs. Even though there is a team where people can play hockey outside the varsity team and people are free to go to universities who can afford the debt. Again, to what end? So 20 some people can play varsity versus another league? I think there's a lot of students who would prefer that kind of money be spread to the masses to offset tuition.

Again, I realize those are national numbers being applied across the spectrum but it gives you an idea of what is being discussed here. Further, 50% or more of the population is female. Where are they at the games?

You have all changed my mind. Good arguments. We really need to come together to stop WH from coming back to UNB. What can we do though? We need a plan. Should we protest? I don't know but Iam with you.
 

radapex

Registered User
Sep 21, 2012
7,766
528
Canada, Eh
This is what you said "Big crowd at this CIS women's hockey game between UBC and Guelph. Looks like about 15 in attendance." You mentioned nothing about UNB. So what are you saying exactly? You made the comment, so 15 in attendance is in fact your point. So my point is cut CIS women's hockey. We don't need it, nobody follows it and only women play it. Stop wasting good money on it and cancel it. If you say don't cancel it, why? Otherwise support me in saying let's cancel it. It's not a UNB problem it is a national problem, GET RID OF WOMENS HOCKEY IT COSTS US GOOD PEOPLE MONEY.

I say it's up to each school as to whether they want to have it or not; they shouldn't be forced to.
 

Crosbyfan

Registered User
Nov 27, 2003
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Does the UNB Men's team operate in the black? How much money do they pull in? What kind of budget do they operate on? What kind of budget would the Women's Team operate on?

Anyone know rough numbers?
 

radapex

Registered User
Sep 21, 2012
7,766
528
Canada, Eh
Does the UNB Men's team operate in the black? How much money do they pull in? What kind of budget do they operate on? What kind of budget would the Women's Team operate on?

Anyone know rough numbers?

That'd depend on how much they're bringing in from their corporate sponsors. Ticket revenue is only going to be in the vicinity of $200,000-$300,000 per year - I'm not sure that amount would even cover management/coaching salaries + equipment.
 

Rants Mulliniks

Registered User
Jun 22, 2008
22,958
6,029
You have all changed my mind. Good arguments. We really need to come together to stop WH from coming back to UNB. What can we do though? We need a plan. Should we protest? I don't know but Iam with you.

What you COULD do is to come up with even one logical, intelligent argument to counter the many points presented to you. Of course you SHOULD start by launching a human rights challenge about the elimination of the STU men's program and while you're at it take all those women to task for not supporting the men's program.
 

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