GDT: UFC on ESPN: Sandhagen vs. Dillashaw

[Chaels Arms]

Stats | UFC

Round 5 significant strikes:
Sandhagen: 38 of 83
Dillashaw: 40 of 88.

So in addition to pushing Sandhagen back all round and tallying a minute of control time Dillashaw also landed more significant strikes than Sandhagen in round 5.

 

[CDJ]

Stats | UFC

Round 5 significant strikes:
Sandhagen: 38 of 83
Dillashaw: 40 of 88.

So in addition to pushing Sandhagen back all round and tallying a minute of control time Dillashaw also landed more significant strikes than Sandhagen in round 5.

TJ eating the much more significant blows, head getting snapped back all round. Cory landing more damage

and again cage control doesn’t matter unless the quality of striking was equal. Which it wasn’t.

I’ll never understand people who think cage control matters the same as everything else. Walking into punches isn’t impressive. It’s really not a factor in 99% of fights. Like it doesn’t count at all.

Effective aggressiveness =\= walking into counters until your eye has a gaping wound that almost stopped the fight

to me the fight was pretty clear

round 1 + 3 were easily Dillashaw’s and I thought Sandhagen pretty clearly won 2, 4, and 5. I can see some arguments about 4- I don’t see it personally but it’s not some miscarriage of justice. Close fight. The decision in itself is fine. How the judges broke the rounds down was not IMO

The guy who invented the scoring criteria had Sandhagen winning for whatever it’s worth. Pretty much everybody who I follow says Sandhagen won. But at the end of the day it’s not a robbery

And not to get lost in this debate but what TJ accomplished in this fight was f***ing insane. It’s not an undeserved win. He was a pit bull in there and put himself in a position where he could win after taking massive damage. All this after missing over 2 years. Hats off to him, I’m excited to see him vs Yan when Petr dispatches of Aljo

 

[CDJ]

I’ll also say this- the judges rewarded people who got some control time and did nothing with it all night long. Didn’t understand that and it was a change of pace from what’s been happening lately

 

[pistolpete11]

I, too, thought Sandhagen won, but I'm also not mad at how it turned out. It was close and it will be fascinating to see if TJ can win the belt a 3rd time at 35 at BW.

Sucks for Sandhagen, but his stock doesn't drop much and they could justify getting him a title shot with a win against pretty much anybody.

 

[1specter]

Not gonna lie, I kinda like TJ winning just for the chaos lol. The guy's fights are always exciting and to be honest I think this was a bad stylistic matchup for him plus he apparently had a bunch of injuries in camp so hats off to him to fighting through all of that and pushing the pace like he did.

Very intrigued to see how he performs against guys like Yan or Sterling where the height/reach advantages aren't so pronounced. All things considered TJ looked pretty good and he still has great cardio/pressure.

That being said, Sandman definitely landed the better shots, did more effective damage IMO and with a few adjustments he probably wins this fight. It's a 'good loss' in the sense that it didn't really hurt his stock I would say.

 

[Chaels Arms]

TJ eating the much more significant blows, head getting snapped back all round. Cory landing more damage

and again cage control doesn’t matter unless the quality of striking was equal. Which it wasn’t.

I’ll never understand people who think cage control matters the same as everything else. Walking into punches isn’t impressive. It’s really not a factor in 99% of fights. Like it doesn’t count at all.

Effective aggressiveness =\= walking into counters until your eye has a gaping wound that almost stopped the fight

View attachment 456233

to me the fight was pretty clear

round 1 + 3 were easily Dillashaw’s and I thought Sandhagen pretty clearly won 2, 4, and 5. I can see some arguments about 4- I don’t see it personally but it’s not some miscarriage of justice. Close fight. The decision in itself is fine. How the judges broke the rounds down was not IMO

The guy who invented the scoring criteria had Sandhagen winning for whatever it’s worth. Pretty much everybody who I follow says Sandhagen won. But at the end of the day it’s not a robbery

And not to get lost in this debate but what TJ accomplished in this fight was f***ing insane. It’s not an undeserved win. He was a pit bull in there and put himself in a position where he could win after taking massive damage. All this after missing over 2 years. Hats off to him, I’m excited to see him vs Yan when Petr dispatches of Aljo

They track strikes and significant strikes. TJ landed more significant strikes in round 5. It's right there in the tracker. You are arguing that TJ's ring control shouldn't have been a factor in the judging because the striking was totally lopsided in Sandhagen's favor but that just simply wasn't the case. If it was as lopsided as you say, it would be reflected to at least some extent in the official stats. Holloway/Katar was lopsided. Adesanya/Costa round 2 was lopsided. O'Malley/Moutinho was lopsided. And in each of those cases the fight stats reflect that. Here the official stats show round 5 was not a one sided affair. Are you crediting the 10 significant leg strikes TJ landed to Sandhagen's 0 in round 5? Sandhagen came out and destroyed TJ's leg in round one and than never touched it again in the final three rounds. When Megan Olivi interviewed him after the fight and mentioned that TJ was talking to his corner about his knee being destroyed Sandhagen looked stunned.

@m9 scored round 4 for TJ. Round 4 was one of Sandhagen's best rounds in terms of striking. So why are you giving round 4 to TJ? More significant strikes for Sandhagen than TJ in that round by a good margin. Sandhagen only got hit in the head 7 times in round 4 compared to 25 in round 5 so he sustained almost no striking damage while dealing out a ton. Sandhagen pieced up TJ more in round 4 than round 5; he just also got controlled more, but that shouldn't matter because he was clearly the more effective striker. So why does TJ get round 4?

 

[Egg]

until your eye has a gaping wound

He reaggravated a prior wound sustained in sparring.

Nate Diaz has the octagon looking like a murder scene, when he gets sneezed on.

Damage can also be misleading.

A fight this tight can and often will go to either participant.

All the more reason to avoid deciding one on a judge decision.

 

[m9]

They track strikes and significant strikes. TJ landed more significant strikes in round 5. It's right there in the tracker. You are arguing that TJ's ring control shouldn't have been a factor in the judging because the striking was totally lopsided in Sandhagen's favor but that just simply wasn't the case. The striking in Holloway/Katar was lopsided, the striking in Adesanya/Costa was lopsided and the stats in both those fights reflect that.

@m9 scored round 4 for TJ. Round 4 was one of Sandhagen's best rounds in terms of striking. So why are you giving round 4 to TJ? More significant strikes for Sandhagen than TJ in that round by a good margin. Sandhagen only got hit in the head 7 times in round 4 compared to 25 in round 5 so he sustained almost no striking damage while dealing out a ton. Sandhagen pieced up TJ more in round 4 than round 5; he just also got controlled more, but that shouldn't matter because he was clearly the more effective striker. So why does TJ get round 4?

I would have to re-watch. It's possible I just scored it wrong - it happens. But also it's not just about counting, not all strikes are equal. There were a couple of rounds where the striking was pretty even which is where the stuff likely grappling, control, etc comes into play.

 

[CDJ]

They track strikes and significant strikes. TJ landed more significant strikes in round 5. It's right there in the tracker. You are arguing that TJ's ring control shouldn't have been a factor in the judging because the striking was totally lopsided in Sandhagen's favor but that just simply wasn't the case. If it was as lopsided as you say, it would be reflected to at least some extent in the official stats. Holloway/Katar was lopsided. Adesanya/Costa round 2 was lopsided. O'Malley/Moutinho was lopsided. And in each of those cases the fight stats reflect that. Here the official stats show round 5 was not a one sided affair. Are you crediting the 10 significant leg strikes TJ landed to Sandhagen's 0 in round 5? Sandhagen came out and destroyed TJ's leg in round one and than never touched it again in the final three rounds. When Megan Olivi interviewed him after the fight and mentioned that TJ was talking to his corner about his knee being destroyed Sandhagen looked stunned.

@m9 scored round 4 for TJ. Round 4 was one of Sandhagen's best rounds in terms of striking. So why are you giving round 4 to TJ? More significant strikes for Sandhagen than TJ in that round by a good margin. Sandhagen only got hit in the head 7 times in round 4 compared to 25 in round 5 so he sustained almost no striking damage while dealing out a ton. Sandhagen pieced up TJ more in round 4 than round 5; he just also got controlled more, but that shouldn't matter because he was clearly the more effective striker. So why does TJ get round 4?

just like that guy and eventually m9 said, not all significant strikes are equal. I consider snapping somebody’s head back to be more valuable than a leg kick that gets no sold. Just my opinion though and I guess that’s what gets left open to interpretation. I don’t see how somebody could look at round 5 and give it to TJ unless they were scoring pressure as a major factor, which it really shouldn’t have been as I don’t think the quality was the same.

This whole “TJ was moving forward he won” stuff is a bunch of irrelevant nonsense.

now Sandhagen fought dumb and could have won a lot more easily but that’s another thing entirely. Like I said I don’t think it’s a robbery but people don’t understand how fights are scored if they think pressure and cage control are major factors. They’re tie breakers and I don’t think any of those rounds were tied

 

[CDJ]

He reaggravated a prior wound sustained in sparring.

Nate Diaz has the octagon looking like a murder scene, when he gets sneezed on.

Damage can also be misleading.

A fight this tight can and often will go to either participant.

All the more reason to avoid deciding one on a judge decision.

I do agree with this- damage can be misleading if it’s the result of one shot. But Sandhagen was countering TJ’s pressure and kicks effectively and was landing with frequency

like I said before though kudos to Dillashaw because his heart is what put him in a place to win. I can’t say he deserved to lose, he didnt. He did enough to where it could have gone either way, I just personally think it was pretty easy to score 3 rounds to 2 and that’s the kind of discretion that’s given to the judges who saw things differently. They hadn’t been valuing control time with minimal damage for what seems like awhile now and saturday night they decided they were going to do that in multiple fights and that’s probably what put TJ over the top

this would not be an example of why judging needs to be overhauled unless somebody thinks there should be a deeper consensus with like 7 judges or something. But that’s an athletic commission deal and the promotions don’t have any control over that

 

[m9]

I rewatched Round 4 and I am fine giving it to Dillashaw. He didn't have the strikes to the head but was landing leg kicks and mixed in some knees to the thighs in the clinch. The striking was close enough so that you can bring in other factors like control, which Dillashaw had. I wouldn't argue against a Sandhagen round and it's possible its just confirmation bias on my part, but I'm feeling good with 48-47 Dillashaw.

 

[chicagoskycam]

I rewatched Round 4 and I am fine giving it to Dillashaw. He didn't have the strikes to the head but was landing leg kicks and mixed in some knees to the thighs in the clinch. The striking was close enough so that you can bring in other factors like control, which Dillashaw had. I wouldn't argue against a Sandhagen round and it's possible its just confirmation bias on my part, but I'm feeling good with 48-47 Dillashaw.

Yeah, I feel like the leg kicks and knees in the clinch were being overlooked a bit. Either way close fight and Sandhagen should not lose too much ground, TJ gets a ranking.

 

[CDJ]

Just got around to it but Brian Campbell basically said he scored the 5th for dillashaw because it came down to what you liked more- the precise striking of Sandhagen or the “cage generalship” of Dillashaw. And that’s exactly what I’m talking about when I say people have no idea how to score. You cannot say the other guy was much more precise of a striker and then give the round to the other guy for cage control or generalship or whatever nonsense. That’s not how this works.

 

[1specter]

T.J. Dillashaw headed to surgery for injured knee suffered in Cory Sandhagen fight, expects ‘speedy recovery’

Holy f***. Say what you will about TJ but he's a tough mofo. Torn LCL and meniscus is no joke, then there was also the huge gash on the eye which had risk of getting a doctor stoppage.

 

[CDJ]

T.J. Dillashaw headed to surgery for injured knee suffered in Cory Sandhagen fight, expects ‘speedy recovery’

Holy f***. Say what you will about TJ but he's a tough mofo. Torn LCL and meniscus is no joke, then there was also the huge gash on the eye which had risk of getting a doctor stoppage.

Pitbull mentality.

 

[darko]

Just got around to it but Brian Campbell basically said he scored the 5th for dillashaw because it came down to what you liked more- the precise striking of Sandhagen or the “cage generalship” of Dillashaw. And that’s exactly what I’m talking about when I say people have no idea how to score. You cannot say the other guy was much more precise of a striker and then give the round to the other guy for cage control or generalship or whatever nonsense. That’s not how this works.

Some people need to ask themselves if they'd rather be the guy with precise striking or the guy with cage generalship. I know which one I'd be.