GDT: UFC 220: Miocic vs. Ngannou

Neutrinos

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Sep 23, 2016
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And it's a weak counterargument. Stipe landed 24/33 in Round 1. Francis 18/65. Stipe outboxed him.

Ngannou didn't look concerned with trying to out-box him, he just wanted to knock him out

If Ngannou had been able to maintain that early pace for the entire 25 minutes, I don't think it goes 25 minutes

He tired quickly, and once he did, Stipe's skill set was simply too much for him
 

tmurfin

That’s the joke
May 8, 2010
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I think the counterargument is, Stipe doesn't land all those punches and takedowns if Ngannou isn't exhausted after the first few minutes
And to counter that, Francis wouldn't have been exhausted had Stipe not avoided and dodged almost all his punches. Seriously, at one point in the first Francis threw 3 huge punches and Stipe bobbed and weaved like a damn master to avoid them.

It's not like Stipe absorbed a ton and damage and willed his way through, no he out boxed him in the first, classic rope-a-dope, and when he did get in trouble, he changed levels and dumped him. Francis did not beat himself. He got outclassed.
 

Neutrinos

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Sep 23, 2016
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And to counter that, Francis wouldn't have been exhausted had Stipe not avoided and dodged almost all his punches. Seriously, at one point in the first Francis threw 3 huge punches and Stipe bobbed and weaved like a damn master to avoid them.

It's not like Stipe absorbed a ton and damage and willed his way through, no he out boxed him in the first, classic rope-a-dope, and when he did get in trouble, he changed levels and dumped him. Francis did not beat himself. He got outclassed.

Ngannou doesn't need to inflict "a ton of damage", he just needs to land one big bomb and it's over

I'm not defending Ngannou's performance, but it seems silly not to acknowledge his lack of conditioning was a major factor in Stipe's ability to impose his will
 

tmurfin

That’s the joke
May 8, 2010
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Ngannou doesn't need to inflict "a ton of damage", he just needs to land one big bomb and it's over

I'm not defending Ngannou's performance, but it seems silly not to acknowledge his lack of conditioning was a major factor in Stipe's ability to impose his will
And he didn't land that "one big bomb" because Stipe had better movement and more tools.

Obviously conditioning isn't Francis' strength but it would also be silly not to acknowledge Stipe's ability to out maneuver and outsmart Francis as the MAIN factor in that fight, and a huge reason why Francis gassed so soon.

This is "sea level Cain" and "full camp Mendes" all over again, except even less valid.
 

tmurfin

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May 8, 2010
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Stipe did absorb ton of damage in the first round.

Not really in this context. Sure he clipped him a couple of times, but the way some talk, you'd think it was Lesnar vs Carwin 2.0, where Francis had Stipe on the verge before punching himself out. Not even close. If anything that first round was like the first bit of Mayweather McGregor, Ngannou got some licks in, but there was never any danger of that fight being stopped.
 

Neutrinos

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Sep 23, 2016
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And he didn't land that "one big bomb" because Stipe had better movement and more tools.

Obviously conditioning isn't Francis' strength but it would also be silly not to acknowledge Stipe's ability to out maneuver and outsmart Francis as the MAIN factor in that fight, and a huge reason why Francis gassed so soon.

This is "sea level Cain" and "full camp Mendes" all over again, except even less valid.

My point is, I think had he not gassed, at some point over the 25 minute fight he would've connected

Agree to disagree if you don't think so
 

Kitten Mittons

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Nov 18, 2007
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Not really in this context. Sure he clipped him a couple of times, but the way some talk, you'd think it was Lesnar vs Carwin 2.0, where Francis had Stipe on the verge before punching himself out. Not even close. If anything that first round was like the first bit of Mayweather McGregor, Ngannou got some licks in, but there was never any danger of that fight being stopped.
Nah, Mayweather was never in any danger. Miocic saw Jesus once or twice in that round before running away from the light.

If Ngannou was a smarter fighter and timed an uppercut with Miocic's ducks, we'd have a new champion.
 

tmurfin

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May 8, 2010
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My point is, I think had he not gassed, at some point over the 25 minute fight he would've connected

Agree to disagree if you don't think so

I'm just saying that's a ridiculous way to look at the fight. That's like saying "had ____ not been knocked out, he would've won that fight".

Nah, Mayweather was never in any danger. Miocic saw Jesus once or twice in that round before running away from the light.

If Ngannou was a smarter fighter and timed an uppercut with Miocic's ducks, we'd have a new champion.

:laugh: if you say so, I literally rewatched the first round for the 4th time to double check, and Francis landed one clean shot near the end, the rest were glancing/rolled with. Stipe was never wobbly, he definitely had to get on his bike a few times but he also landed the cleaner punches that round.
 

Peggy

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Aug 6, 2016
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Ngannou didn't look concerned with trying to out-box him, he just wanted to knock him out

If Ngannou had been able to maintain that early pace for the entire 25 minutes, I don't think it goes 25 minutes

He tired quickly, and once he did, Stipe's skill set was simply too much for him

"if he could"
you can't use ifs and buts when the reality is Francis couldn't and isn't capable of it
 

darko

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Feb 16, 2009
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I don't want to beat a dead horse so we can agree to disagree. Stipe's wrestling didn't gas Ngannou. Ngannou's overexuberance did. Stipe's wrestling then became effective because Ngannou was exhausted (by his own doing).


No it was Miocic's wrestling that tired out Ngannou. Any time you are up against a guy who throws bombs you either put him on the mat or up against the cage. Smart strategy by Stipe and it worked a treat.
 

kurt

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Sep 11, 2004
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My point is, I think had he not gassed, at some point over the 25 minute fight he would've connected

Agree to disagree if you don't think so

I think if Usain Bolt managed to maintain his 100m speed over longer distance races, he would hold world records in those distances.

Things can be true without supporting an opinion in any meaningful way. I'm not sure it's humanly possible for a human that size, and that lost on the ground, to maintain his round 1 pace over 25 minutes. It's been proven time and time again that constantly loading up and being explosive is unsustainable at just about any weight. And if you don't have the experience and expertise to be economical and effective on the ground or in the clinch, results are even worse.
 

LSCII

Cup driven
Mar 1, 2002
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I think if Usain Bolt managed to maintain his 100m speed over longer distance races, he would hold world records in those distances.

Things can be true without supporting an opinion in any meaningful way. I'm not sure it's humanly possible for a human that size, and that lost on the ground, to maintain his round 1 pace over 25 minutes. It's been proven time and time again that constantly loading up and being explosive is unsustainable at just about any weight. And if you don't have the experience and expertise to be economical and effective on the ground or in the clinch, results are even worse.

Exactly. He got dragged out into deep water and was lost with no answer. He was exhausted by the end and Miocic exposed a glaring hole in Ngannous game. I would expect most of his opponents trying to use the same strategy against him going forward. At least until he's shown he can handle it.
 

m9

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Jan 23, 2010
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This is such a weird argument.

Being able to stay away from Ngannou's power in the 1st round is a skill. Having great cardio is a skill. Being a very good wrestler is a skill. Miocic used his skills to beat Ngannou.

All of that can still be true along with Ngannou gassing himself and having poor cardio.
 

Neutrinos

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Sep 23, 2016
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This is such a weird argument.

Being able to stay away from Ngannou's power in the 1st round is a skill. Having great cardio is a skill. Being a very good wrestler is a skill. Miocic used his skills to beat Ngannou.

All of that can still be true along with Ngannou gassing himself and having poor cardio.

Exactly
 

LSCII

Cup driven
Mar 1, 2002
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Central MA
This is such a weird argument.

Being able to stay away from Ngannou's power in the 1st round is a skill. Having great cardio is a skill. Being a very good wrestler is a skill. Miocic used his skills to beat Ngannou.

All of that can still be true along with Ngannou gassing himself and having poor cardio.

Yeah, I don't get it either. It's stupid. Miocic found and exposed flaws in Ngannou's game. What's so wrong about that? It's not like he ran away from him for 5 rounds.
 

Kitten Mittons

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Nov 18, 2007
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Ngannou coach's comments:

“The fight didn’t go our way, that’s clear for all to see,” Lopez said. “We were expecting the level of skills that Stipe brought, he was awesome and his levels changes were beautiful. We were lucky he didn’t try to finish Francis, but he didn’t every try to commit to many submission or anything. There were some good things that Francis did. He showed amazingly bravery and he never gave up. No one was thinking it would ever go 25-minutes, but Francis hung in there in the face of great adversity.
“Francis let out everything in the first round and after that, he had nothing left, but he still kept going. The first round was incredible and if every round was like that it would’ve been one of the best fights ever, but these are two heavyweights and that was never going to happen. He did a good job to hang there, but I won’t lie, I was disappointed. When I saw Francis rush in and throw a high kick, I was shocked.”​
_
“That wasn’t at all in the gameplan. That must’ve been Stipe’s dream. Have someone rush him and try to take his head off. That made it easy for him to change level and get the takedown. As a cornerman, you simply can’t do anything. The gameplan was to manage the range and throw some combos, but be cautious and to step back out and keep the distance so he couldn’t bring his wrestling. That didn’t happen.”
“I’ll be honest, I’ve not talked to Francis about it yet,” he continued. “I don’t like to have a debrief straight after the fight. I like to have two weeks to let the fighter think and digest the fight. When he’s ready, two weeks later I’ll talk with him and try to understand why he went for that gameplan and that strategy. I didn’t expect what happened. The gameplan was so different, but Francis just went rushing after him, hunting him and yeah it just wasn’t what we had planned.”​
_
“At the end of the first round I tried to get things back, but when I saw him, I could see everything was gone. He’d burned out everything,” Lopez said. “When you’re a heavyweight and you’ve burned everything it’s over. He didn’t have enough energy to use his footwork and step in or out. The only thing I thought we could do was try to play with the right uppercut and make Stipe think twice about coming into range so he could breathe. I was telling him to play jab-jab-uppercut, but Stipe was so smart and took him down again.
“People say that Francis did not prepare for wrestling and grappling enough during the camp, but that’s false. He hung there for 25-minutes with no gas in the tank and didn’t get submitted, so he showed everyone he knew what he was doing. People also forget that he also went for a heel hook in the fourth or the fifth round, I forget, but it made Miocic abandon his ground attack and Francis was able to stand up. People saying Francis not being prepared for wrestling or the ground game are wrong. That wasn’t the issue.
“The issue was the range management and the distance management in the fight. Francis needed to choose the range to fight and it didn’t happen. Whenever Stipe moved in, Francis should’ve moved back to maintain the distance. As soon as he chose to hunt and chase Stipe, it was a mess. Without any footwork it was over.”​
 

1specter

Registered User
Sep 27, 2016
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Interesting, his coach seems quite knowledgeable and very aware of everything that went wrong, nothing exactly how Stipe exploited Francis. Seems like Francis got overexcited and underestimated Stipe's defense as well as completely ignored his corner's game plan.
 

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