GDT: UFC 220: Miocic vs. Ngannou

[member 51464]

Nice win by Stipe. Ngannou is pretty raw overall. He is a great story, but at his age it will take a great team to help him become well-rounded enough to stick around a while. Lucky for him, heavyweight is quite shallow so it probably wouldn't be too long before he got another crack at the title if he can string together a few Ws.

 

[V13]

Nice win by Stipe. Ngannou is pretty raw overall. He is a great story, but at his age it will take a great team to help him become well-rounded enough to stick around a while. Lucky for him, heavyweight is quite shallow so it probably wouldn't be too long before he got another crack at the title if he can string together a few Ws.

He should go to AKA. Training with guys like Cormier and Cain could do wonder for him

Wonder who is next for him ? JDS ? Werdum ? Tune up fight ?

 

[m9]

Crazy how 205 went from arguably the most interesting division five years ago to just a complete wasteland. DC-Miocic would be an extremely interesting fight.

That's what happens when the two best p4p guys in the sport are in the same division.

 

[sabremike]

I was so happy to see the reaction Cormier got last night, after how badly he was wronged he absolutely deserved it. I actually think fans are more savvy than we think and that DC is now a super babyface because they realize he was victimized by a drug cheat.

 

[Avs_19]

He should go to AKA. Training with guys like Cormier and Cain could do wonder for him

Wonder who is next for him ? JDS ? Werdum ? Tune up fight ?

I'd go with Derrick Lewis if he beats Tybura.

 

[1specter]

I was so happy to see the reaction Cormier got last night, after how badly he was wronged he absolutely deserved it. I actually think fans are more savvy than we think and that DC is now a super babyface because they realize he was victimized by a drug cheat.

DC has been nothing but pure class his whole career. Guy's a model athlete and champ and a genuinely good human. It really sucks that his dominance has gone unappreciated because of being overshadowed by Jones. DC is a LHW great and probably the GOAT (at LHW) after Jon.

 

[Moncherry]

I strongly disagree with this but we can agree to disagree. Miocic didn't come out and do anything to cause Ngannou to tire, if that was the case then sure. Ngannou just came out guns blazing and tired himself. To your point, sure, that's fight IQ, but Stipe was not better when both were 100%. Stipe was better once Ngannou was tired. I'm not even disagreeing that Stipe is more well-rounded, but Ngannou's strengths tip the scale in his favor IMO. They fight again I expect more patience and a first/second round finish.

That's ridiculous. The wrestling was clearly gassing him. It's the textbook strategy to beat a stronger power puncher, tie them up and make them expend energy grappling, and Stipe executed it perfectly.

No matter how Ngannou conserved his energy, the longer the fight would go on, the worse it would be for him. He's too big and doesn't have the conditioning or the wrestling to handle that kind of gameplan.

 

[zombie kopitar]

I strongly disagree with this but we can agree to disagree. Miocic didn't come out and do anything to cause Ngannou to tire, if that was the case then sure. Ngannou just came out guns blazing and tired himself. To your point, sure, that's fight IQ, but Stipe was not better when both were 100%. Stipe was better once Ngannou was tired. I'm not even disagreeing that Stipe is more well-rounded, but Ngannou's strengths tip the scale in his favor IMO. They fight again I expect more patience and a first/second round finish.

Are you serious??
Out the gate Stipe was ducking the majority of what he was throwing. What caused him to tire out is that Francis was fighting the exact same way that got him to the title fight....but Stipe flat outclassed him rather quickly. Then he was a deer in headlights.
Like I thought cardio would be an issue if he could get him into the 3rd, but he was done by the end of the first.... I mean Stipe would have submitted him with a few more seconds. It is ridiculous to defend Francis, he got embarrassed real bad.

 

[PB37]

Chael looked pretty good on his feet and he had a couple of sneaky takedowns but he faded hard in the third. Looked like there was something wrong with his nose; he kept reaching up and pushing it.

Rampage looked overwhelmed. Couldn't catch a guy fighting way out of his weight class until the waning seconds of the fight and let himself get beat standing up in the first, which was his wheelhouse.

To add to this, after watching the press conference, you can tell Chael was sick. He kept sniffling, wiping the nose, etc etc. Still tough enough to beat Rampage.

 

[Kitten Mittons]

Basically clean Sonnen is best Sonnen.

 

[1specter]

Are you serious??
Out the gate Stipe was ducking the majority of what he was throwing. What caused him to tire out is that Francis was fighting the exact same way that got him to the title fight....but Stipe flat outclassed him rather quickly. Then he was a deer in headlights.
Like I thought cardio would be an issue if he could get him into the 3rd, but he was done by the end of the first.... I mean Stipe would have submitted him with a few more seconds. It is ridiculous to defend Francis, he got embarrassed real bad.

People seem to forget that Stipe is a Golden Gloves boxer

 

[1specter]

Nice win by Stipe. Ngannou is pretty raw overall. He is a great story, but at his age it will take a great team to help him become well-rounded enough to stick around a while. Lucky for him, heavyweight is quite shallow so it probably wouldn't be too long before he got another crack at the title if he can string together a few Ws.

Although starting late puts him at a disadvantage, one of the things that really works in his favour is that he has very limited mileage and he's never really taken hard damage outside of last night (and even then he was more tired than he was hurt). With how bad the HW division is I imagine he's got a good 5-6 years still in him seeing as he's only 31. Cardio and slimming down should definitely be a priority for him next, as well as continuing to work on his guard and takedown defense.

 

[BGDDYKWL]

Are you serious??
Out the gate Stipe was ducking the majority of what he was throwing. What caused him to tire out is that Francis was fighting the exact same way that got him to the title fight....but Stipe flat outclassed him rather quickly. Then he was a deer in headlights.
Like I thought cardio would be an issue if he could get him into the 3rd, but he was done by the end of the first.... I mean Stipe would have submitted him with a few more seconds. It is ridiculous to defend Francis, he got embarrassed real bad.

That's ridiculous. The wrestling was clearly gassing him. It's the textbook strategy to beat a stronger power puncher, tie them up and make them expend energy grappling, and Stipe executed it perfectly.

No matter how Ngannou conserved his energy, the longer the fight would go on, the worse it would be for him. He's too big and doesn't have the conditioning or the wrestling to handle that kind of gameplan.

I don't want to beat a dead horse so we can agree to disagree. Stipe's wrestling didn't gas Ngannou. Ngannou's overexuberance did. Stipe's wrestling then became effective because Ngannou was exhausted (by his own doing).

 

[Ivan13]

I don't want to beat a dead horse so we can agree to disagree. Stipe's wrestling didn't gas Ngannou. Ngannou's overexuberance did. Stipe's wrestling then became effective because Ngannou was exhausted (by his own doing).

Not sure if serious.

 

[Sheppy]

Stipe's wrestling absolutely gassed Ngannou, however, Ngannou was a bit gassed before the clinch game and wrestling even happened. He was sucking wind after 2 minutes of stand up.

 

[MD thaivuN]

Ngannou gassed himself by using all his energy leading with wild missing punches in 2 minutes. Stipe's wrestling didn't gas him, it just took his soul.

Had Ngannou fought the same way he usually fight, with patient counterstriking, he could have extended the amount of time in which he could have kept the fight competitive. Stipe's wrestling would still tire him out, but he'd have more time being effective than 2 whole minutes. Stipe was doing boneheaded mistakes on the feet too in the first two round, but Ngannou was already too tired to counter them by the time Stipe made those mistakes.

Stipe was always gonna have the strategic advantage of getting Ngannou in the deep waters, but Ngannou also dove head first in those waters before Stipe did anything to him.

 

[m9]

I don't want to beat a dead horse so we can agree to disagree. Stipe's wrestling didn't gas Ngannou. Ngannou's overexuberance did. Stipe's wrestling then became effective because Ngannou was exhausted (by his own doing).

I thought this was fairly obvious as well - Ngannou gassed himself out, and then Miocic had his way with him. This isn't to discredit Miocic, as clearly his gameplan was to avoid the first round flurry from Ngannou and then see if he had the cardio to stay in the fight. Same gameplan guys have used against guys like Mark Hunt, Shane Carwin, and JDS to varying degrees of success.

 

[Peggy]

I don't want to beat a dead horse so we can agree to disagree. Stipe's wrestling didn't gas Ngannou. Ngannou's overexuberance did. Stipe's wrestling then became effective because Ngannou was exhausted (by his own doing).

stipe dodging wild punches from Francis and working a wrestling game definitely tired out Francis cuz it also tired stipe out too
Francis is just so damn strong that even when fatigued he can still lift a truck

wrestling is gonna wear anyone down. that's fighting

 

[Peggy]

Ngannou gassed himself by using all his energy leading with wild missing punches in 2 minutes. Stipe's wrestling didn't gas him, it just took his soul.

Had Ngannou fought the same way he usually fight, with patient counterstriking, he could have extended the amount of time in which he could have kept the fight competitive. Stipe's wrestling would still tire him out, but he'd have more time being effective than 2 whole minutes. Stipe was doing boneheaded mistakes on the feet too in the first two round, but Ngannou was already too tired to counter them by the time Stipe made those mistakes.

Stipe was always gonna have the strategic advantage of getting Ngannou in the deep waters, but Ngannou also dove head first in those waters before Stipe did anything to him.

at this point you're arguing semantics
"it's didn't gas him but it took his soul"
so it did wear him down then and kept him worn down
silly to say the wrestling wasn't a factor because for clearly was for the next 4 rounds lol. you can recover and get your energy back

 

[MD thaivuN]

at this point you're arguing semantics
"it's didn't gas him but it took his soul"
so it did wear him down then and kept him worn down
silly to say the wrestling wasn't a factor because for clearly was for the next 4 rounds lol. you can recover and get your energy back

No one arguing wrestling wasn't a factor. The argument is that Ngannou was done before any wrestling happened

 

[Kitten Mittons]

People just heard Rogan and Cruz say it ad nauseum so they keep repeating.

Ngannou was done after the first round. Wrestling sure didn't help his recovery though.

 

[Peggy]

No one arguing wrestling wasn't a factor. The argument is that Ngannou was done before any wrestling happened

I can't re watch the first round again to pin point

stipe dodged a lot of wild punches and that was gassing francis
when you carry that much muscle around it takes a lot of energy out of you
if you're an athlete or a fighter it's not a secret
But once stipe realized some fatigue he went for the takedowns which doesn't allow Francis to recover. I believe francis would've gassed either way, but closing in and grappling neutralized the threat and kept his stamina bar at low

stipe keeping his distance, ducking punches and then pressed when he saw some fatigue. Francis wasn't comepeltey gassed out til the grappling exchanges started. if I remmebr correctly. but like i said I can't go back and re watch the first round

 

[Peggy]

stipe is also just a more complete fighter.
had more of s strategy than knock someone's head off

stipe clearly wanted to avoid all of that and hrs technical enough that he did. got a caught a couple.times tho. hard to block Ford trucks(or whatever the dumb statistic Dana pulled out) coming at you

 

[1specter]

I can't re watch the first round again to pin point

stipe dodged a lot of wild punches and that was gassing francis
when you carry that much muscle around it takes a lot of energy out of you
if you're an athlete or a fighter it's not a secret
But once stipe realized some fatigue he went for the takedowns which doesn't allow Francis to recover. I believe francis would've gassed either way, but closing in and grappling neutralized the threat and kept his stamina bar at low

stipe keeping his distance, ducking punches and then pressed when he saw some fatigue. Francis wasn't comepeltey gassed out til the grappling exchanges started. if I remmebr correctly. but like i said I can't go back and re watch the first round

One thing I noticed Stipe did well also was that the odd time Ngannou DID connect, he knew Ngannou would try and follow it up with some sort of combo and that's when he would shoot for the takedown every time and give himself some time to recover from the shot. Ngannou was extremely predictable.

 

[Moncherry]

I don't want to beat a dead horse so we can agree to disagree. Stipe's wrestling didn't gas Ngannou. Ngannou's overexuberance did. Stipe's wrestling then became effective because Ngannou was exhausted (by his own doing).

So Ngannou becoming progressively exhausted at the end of every round had everything to do with Ngannou swinging and missing in the first couple of minutes and nothing to do with trying to get Miocic off him for most of the fight? That doesn't even make sense.

Even if trying to KO Miocic is what depleted him initially, it doesn't change the fact that Miocic still gave him no chance to recover and worked him over repeatedly. Miocic already had him on the ground in the first round, and had him in a chokehold when the bell saved Ngannou. And even if he managed to keep a better pace, Miocic likely still takes him down repeatedly anyway, because he's the far better grappler with the better gas tank. I don't know how that can be disputed.

This is all ignoring that Miocic was also better than Ngannou during the standing exchanges. Ngannou's loss was completely due to Miocic just being better than him.