GDT: UFC 214: Cormier vs. Jones 2

LSCII

Cup driven
Mar 1, 2002
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Central MA
I think its important to note that he got Holloway a long time ago and Mendes had like 2 weeks (or less?) to prepare for their fight (to go along with media obligations and everything else that comes along with fight week.)

Regardless, he's defended his belt zero times. I imagine he'll do so once at most before he retires from fighting all together. Hard to put someone up there as the GOAT when that is the case.

The Aldo win is a pretty big scalp though. I doubt he ever fights Khabib (who ****ed this up for himself) and hes lucky, because that wouldn't go well for him at all.

Re-watch that Mendes fight. McGregor picked him apart with those body kicks. Sure, Chad got him down and roughed him up a bit, but every time they got back to their feet, he got kicked to the body, which left his head susceptible for the big punches that ultimately ended his night. Maybe it takes longer if they were to fight again, but I see it going pretty much the same way.

And let's not forget, Mendes is a PED user and hasn't gotten a second shot with a normal training camp because he's currently suspended for doping. He's still got another year before he can even come back.
 

Cardiac Jerks

Asinine & immoral
Jan 13, 2006
23,353
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Re-watch that Mendes fight. McGregor picked him apart with those body kicks. Sure, Chad got him down and roughed him up a bit, but every time they got back to their feet, he got kicked to the body, which left his head susceptible for the big punches that ultimately ended his night. Maybe it takes longer if they were to fight again, but I see it going pretty much the same way.

And let's not forget, Mendes is a PED user and hasn't gotten a second shot with a normal training camp because he's currently suspended for doping. He's still got another year before he can even come back.

Mendes is one of my favourite fighters and while he may not have had a full camp to prepare, those body kicks definitely contributed to him "gassing" and getting finished.
 

m9

m9
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Holloway has improved, but so has McGregor. I think the rematch could be amazing.
 

LSCII

Cup driven
Mar 1, 2002
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Mendes is one of my favourite fighters and while he may not have had a full camp to prepare, those body kicks definitely contributed to him "gassing" and getting finished.

No question about it. And I say this as a fan of Mendes as well. I still maintain to this day that he won that second fight with Aldo.
 

kurt

the last emperor
Sep 11, 2004
8,709
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Not that far...I mean he's pretty much finished everybody he's fought except for a much bigger Diaz. FWIW you can't have Aldo near the top if Conor isnt there IMO...

Goat list for me would be

Jones
Silva
Fedor
GSP/MM

He is virtually the same size as Diaz.
 

Wood Stick

Registered User
Dec 25, 2015
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So far? Don't be ridiculous.

Needs to defend his title imo to be considered.

Not that far...I mean he's pretty much finished everybody he's fought except for a much bigger Diaz. FWIW you can't have Aldo near the top if Conor isnt there IMO...

Goat list for me would be

Jones
Silva
Fedor
GSP/MM

Conor has 4 titles. He has yet to defend a belt. He has a finish loss to a borderline top 10 LW and barely won the rematch. Aldo, GSP, MM, Silva, Fedor and a handful of others are so far above him. Could add in DC, Liddell, Big Nog, Cruz, even on paper Woodley has been finding success defending his belt but I don't agree with that, Cyborg, etc, etc.
 

m9

m9
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Jan 23, 2010
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Conor has 4 titles. He has yet to defend a belt. He has a finish loss to a borderline top 10 LW and barely won the rematch. Aldo, GSP, MM, Silva, Fedor and a handful of others are so far above him. Could add in DC, Liddell, Big Nog, Cruz, even on paper Woodley has been finding success defending his belt but I don't agree with that, Cyborg, etc, etc.

I find the whole P4P/GOAT conversation generally a big waste of time, but..

1) Counting Cage Warriors titles as "not defended" is completely useless. Do you know many fighters leave smaller organizations for the UFC and never defend their belt? It happens all the time, everyone does it. Holding this against him and even bringing it up is a complete waste of time.

2) It's also less about who you haven't beat and more about who you beat and how you beat them. He has finishes against one of the best 155lb guys of all time in Eddie Alvarez. His work at 145 is essentially a masterpiece - first round finish of the best of all-time, second round finish of who many thought was the 2nd best guy ever in Mendes, and a decision victory over the current top guy in Holloway.

McGregor isn't near the top right now, but he's certainly the top featherweight on the list.
 

member 51464

Guest
I find the whole P4P/GOAT conversation generally a big waste of time, but..

1) Counting Cage Warriors titles as "not defended" is completely useless. Do you know many fighters leave smaller organizations for the UFC and never defend their belt? It happens all the time, everyone does it. Holding this against him and even bringing it up is a complete waste of time.

2) It's also less about who you haven't beat and more about who you beat and how you beat them. He has finishes against one of the best 155lb guys of all time in Eddie Alvarez. His work at 145 is essentially a masterpiece - first round finish of the best of all-time, second round finish of who many thought was the 2nd best guy ever in Mendes, and a decision victory over the current top guy in Holloway.

McGregor isn't near the top right now, but he's certainly the top featherweight on the list.

:help:
 

m9

m9
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Jan 23, 2010
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3rd best at the time is definitely more accurate than 2nd best ever at the weight :)

anyway, continue....

We are just jumping through different places in time. At the time Conor beat Mendes, Mendes was the 3rd best 145er of all-time. Disagree?
 

La Masse

Registered User
May 5, 2016
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We are just jumping through different places in time. At the time Conor beat Mendes, Mendes was the 3rd best 145er of all-time. Disagree?

The only guy worthy at 145 that Conor hasnt beat is Edgar and that's on him because he can't get past Aldo. I guess Holloway would be a fun rematch but I doubt Conor goes back down to 145 unless it's big time name
 

m9

m9
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Jan 23, 2010
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Yeah, Conor isn't going back to 145lbs. No reason for him to do so.

Anyways, my only point was that Conor's 145lb resume is excellent and that is what would get him in the p4p top-ten discussion. We'll see what happens from here. His path reminds me of what BJ Penn did early on - dominate a division but then jump around so much with mixed results.
 

LSCII

Cup driven
Mar 1, 2002
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Yah thought this was interesting as well. Considering it's not mass produced and very hard to obtain legally, I have my doubts it was a "tainted" supplement, not like I ever believed that excuse.

It's hard to give the guy the benefit of the doubt given multiple positive tests at this point...
 

Wood Stick

Registered User
Dec 25, 2015
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Yah thought this was interesting as well. Considering it's not mass produced and very hard to obtain legally, I have my doubts it was a "tainted" supplement, not like I ever believed that excuse.

Interesting thing here. Found it priced with several powerful orals like superdrol and anadrol which are very powerful steroids. Those orals give you a lot of strength really quickly.
 

BGDDYKWL

Registered User
Jul 16, 2007
4,472
418
Much of this situation doesn't completely add up, but in terms of why someone would take something so close to the fight, when you get on this stuff, a lot of it is mental. You feel bigger, faster, stronger, tougher, almost invincible, when you're on it. Now granted you are a lot of those things, but that mental switch flips the second you take it. Obviously incredibly stupid for him to have knowingly done so with another USADA test sure to follow, but he may have been having self doubt and needed that "courage" so to speak. I'm purely speculating obviously, but as someone who's taken stuff before and known many who have, there is definitely a mental/behavioral component to it.
 

tmurfin

That’s the joke
May 8, 2010
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Interesting thing here. Found it priced with several powerful orals like superdrol and anadrol which are very powerful steroids. Those orals give you a lot of strength really quickly.

Yah from what I've heard and read about TBol, it usually gives almost instant results, makes you super aggro
 

Wood Stick

Registered User
Dec 25, 2015
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Yah from what I've heard and read about TBol, it usually gives almost instant results, makes you super aggro

I'm not 100% sure on the dosage you run but I'm fairly certain it's like the two I mentioned. The strength gain takes 5-10 days. It's a big jump in little time. Would absolutely lol if someone busted for dbol.
 

tmurfin

That’s the joke
May 8, 2010
11,242
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Apparently he passed the test right after the fight.... https://twitter.com/arielhelwani/status/903677435937300480

What kind of a weird (or awesome) steroid is that if it goes away within 24-36 hours? Did Jones simply not expect to be tested after the weigh-ins? I'm pretty sure those aren't random.

Most likely, he got a bad batch of TBol, and it lasted longer than his masking agent, just long enough to get pinched at the weigh ins, and during the rehydration and physical exertion, it diluted enough to not show up after the fight. I don't know, I'm no doctor :laugh: that's the only explanation that makes sense to me.
 

Avs_19

Registered User
Jun 28, 2007
84,507
32,087
I guess it's good Jones was able to pass his post-fight blood test but it doesn't seem like it means all that much when it comes to the steroid he tested positive for......

“Given that Mr. Jones’ agent has publicly commented on this case, we can confirm Mr. Jones provided a urine and blood sample on July 6th and an additional urine sample on the 7th — all of which were reported negative. On July 28th, his urine sample tested positive for turinabol — as confirmed previously — then after the fight he provided a blood sample that was reported negative.”

“The prohibited anabolic steroid turinabol is only tested for in urine screens and not in blood tests. Urine and blood screens are complimentary to each other and don’t analyze for the same substances. Importantly, Mr. Jones is innocent unless and until the established process determines otherwise. It’s only fair to let due process occur before jumping to any conclusions.”

https://www.mmafighting.com/2017/9/1/16241272/jon-jones-passed-usada-blood-test-the-night-of-ufc-214
 
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