WJC: U.S. WJC Discussion

[KaseMeOutside]

I'm embarrassed by team USA, I didn't think they were a strong contender for gold but the politics of USA hockey, once again need to be addressed, there is zero reason for guys like Archibald/Tynan etc on this team, to many small similar player that lack skill. I was dumbfounded that Tyler Biggs was left off.

The Prince fanboys however, can spare me. he wouldn't make much difference.

Disappointed alot in the play of Forbort and Merrill, Clendenning is also not very good.

However, we will find out who the competitors are tomorrow, and who the quitters are, whos' going to show up and compete?

 

[SabresSharks]

By my logic, yes more 15 year old Americans then ever are wanting to head to the CHL today then ever before.

You had Nick Ebert and Brady Vail last year, you have Brandon Shea, Anthony De Angelo, and Adam Erne all of this year. Yes, more and more of our most talented kids are going to the CHL, you might want to check on the numbers before you make any comments about it because it is getting much much closer then you realize.

And please dont turn this into a CHL vs NCAA thing, that isnt the issue. The issue is about balance and fairness, and that isnt happening.

You state you are no fan of USA Hockey, and you simply do not have the facts or understanding of what is going on in this nation, so leave those issues to those of us that do.

To your last point about getting carried away, again you dont follow USA Hockey, and this isnt the first time. For many of us this is probably the 4th or 5th time in the past 7 years something like this has occurred, and usually the selection process ommitted some young CHL American (s) in those years which has drawn the ire.

This is a very big issue for us, and one that simply needs to be corrected asap.

And how did you reach those conclusions?

You know nothing about me or my knowledge of US hockey. Stop being a pompous ass.

 

[AmericanDream]

You don't care, then why post. As for your faith in Team USA, Dean Blais loves you; me and a few folks around USA hockey, the college and Pro game agree with American Dream- and pretty sure he does not know these people.

In the end, you are going to believe what you want to believe anyways. As you said you don't know the background of these kids this story, and aren't emotionally involved so why even bother commenting.

Be honest, you have no clue.

edit- general comment and not intended for Walt, I have faith you don't know who these guys are

The comments I've heard even before the loss yesterday was FOUR players absolutely should have been on this team: Noesen, Knight, Trocheck, and Prince- no particular order; It doesn't take a rocket scientist or a poet to figure which four should not have been taken. If the US loses Friday they are done and hopefully this crap with USA hockey will be done with going forward. I like many of the kids on this team but if they are not going to medal in the end then this might be the best thing going forward. I still think USA will get the win they need, however, if not, Dean Blais is going to know what it feels like to throw up in your mouth as Bill Parcells liked to say after a tough loss.

well this post sums it up....

I think those 4 kids mentioned would have made a big difference these past 2 games and throughout the tournament, and now USA Hockey has to live with this result. I wanted these kids to win so bad so that I could really enjoy tomorrow night against Canada and then look forward to the medal round...just sickens me how this has turned out.

 

[AmericanDream]

And how did you reach those conclusions?

You know nothing about me or my knowledge of US hockey. Stop being a pompous ass.

going by your previous posts, I stand by my comments...

not trying to be a dick at all, but I am not chiming in on issues that are Canadian as I have no clue as to how things have transpired over the years....I think the same applies here as well..

 

[KaseMeOutside]

well this post sums it up....

I think those 4 kids mentioned would have made a big difference these past 2 games and throughout the tournament, and now USA Hockey has to live with this result. I wanted these kids to win so bad so that I could really enjoy tomorrow night against Canada and then look forward to the medal round...just sickens me how this has turned out.

Most of the people bringing up Prince are Sens fans with an agenda.....honestly he's not an impact player at this level. Knight deserved a spot, and so did biggs. I'm tired of team USA loading up it's bottom 6 with ****ing skill less midgets every year

 

[AVSfan2daMAX]

Not to rub any salt in the wounds or anything, but I find it very curious why the USA always seems to either over-achieve when no one favours them, and vice versa when they're favoured. I wonder if it has to do with the "underdog mentality". This result probably equals 2006 in terms of disapointing performance.

I mean the same phenomenom occured in 2010 at the olympics, where most people didn't even talk about the USA and to be honest, they could have very well won gold. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.

 

[espo*]

Big game tommorow, the U.S always comes to meet us face to face, I respect that.



I just hope the best team wins tommmorow.



I'm sure it will.

It always does.

 

[HSF]

should have taken Prince

 

[Ash35]

Big game tommorow, the U.S always comes to meet us face to face, I respect that.



I just hope the best team wins tommmorow.



I'm sure it will.

It always does.

The game won't really mean much now. I won't be surprised if Canada comes out a little flat.

 

[cagney]

I was astounded at the lack of routine, fundamental hockey plays today: sloppy passing, mishandled passes, terrible changes, missed d-zone coverage, 2 teammates going for a loose puck, 2 teammates backing off a loose puck. Way too often it appeared that the players had stepped on the ice with each other for the first time.

Although I'm annually disappointed by some of USA Hockey's WJC decisions, none of the above is explained by selection bias. The sloppy play combined with a stellar opposing goalie resulted in today's embarrassment.

Concerning CHL experience ... US kids playing in the OHL, for example, play nobody from the QMJHL or WHL, unless their team makes the Memorial Cup. The benefit of selecting kids who have head-to-head experience against fellow CHLers is mostly illusory.

I totally agree with everything you've said here. Worrying about bringing more CHL'ers is completely missing the point. This group of players was having serious problems with the fundamentals of being a team. It doesn't matter what kind of experience you have against the players on the other team if you make a pass that's five feet behind the player you're passing to. There were countless plays where my jaw literally dropped. It's almost like I was watching the polar opposite version of the '10 team.

to your last part, not sure why so many of you arent understanding this. you are missing the point.

its not about seeing all of your enemies, it is about having CHL Americans on this team because they play a tougher schedule, or more physical game in the CHL, and will play against opponents they see on a nightly basis.

That's a bit contradictory there.

It might only be a couple, but I would rather have kids that have experience playing against 2-3 kids on Finland, then having 0 which we did. It does make an overall difference, especially with the type of game that is played in the CHL.

When we have a balanced team of CHL to NCAA Americans on our team, we win medals....hardly illusory....it is proven more times then naught.

There wasn't a single Finnish CHL'er on the ice the other night. If anything, the NTDP kids have a lot more experience playing against (and beating) the Finnish players. That experience didn't really make a difference either way.

Personally, I'd like to see us succeed using our own system. The Russians (and the Swedes more recently) do a great job of using players from their own system to be an annual force at this tournament. Why can't we do it that way? We certainly have the resources at our disposal. Why should we be the only hockey country on Earth that can support an elite hockey development system yet rely on sending our players to another country's development system?

The NTDP was created because we weren't getting results using players who'd come through either NCAA or CHL hockey and had barely played together. It's certainly been very successful at the U18 level but if the NTDP can't solve the U20 tournament, what can? Maybe it's really more about improving development at the youth level like many have said over the years.

 

[Ward Cornell]

I'm embarrassed by team USA, I didn't think they were a strong contender for gold but the politics of USA hockey, once again need to be addressed, there is zero reason for guys like Archibald/Tynan etc on this team, to many small similar player that lack skill. I was dumbfounded that Tyler Biggs was left off.

The Prince fanboys however, can spare me. he wouldn't make much difference.

I can only speak about the players that I've actually seen play numerous times and then cross-reference against some of the players for other countries...so here goes...

Shane Prince is at least a top 6 player on any team in the WJHC.
If you think he doesn't belong then please submit your resume to USA Hockey, I'm sure they will like your analysis!

Jack Campbell and John Gibson: I have Gibson ahead of Campbell and not by a little.
Don't let one bad game mislead you. I think the error that USA Hockey made was annoiting both players without any competition.
I would've invited Michael Houser and Matt Mahalik to battle them at the December camp.

Jared Tinordi: if he was your best defenceman then IMHO your d-corps was in trouble before the tourney started.
Austin Levi while not a flashing is just a type of player to build a solid d-corps around. Having him paired with Tinordi would be a great 2 or 3 pairing of d-men.

Stefan Noesen: great mucker with offensive upside and very consistent and would have been a great addition.

Brandon Saad: Mr. Super Inconsistency, one good week for every 3 bad weeks.
He needed his buttons pushed the right way. When on, he would be a first team WJHC all-star but......

Jared Knight: If Blais could have lit a fire under his players, what Knight brings could be duplicated.
But Knight is very very self-motivated and driven...he could have infected the other players. He may have been the ideal line-mate for Saad!!

^^ most if not all of those players would've made Team Canada.
How Team USA leave these players off their team is totally baffling.

But the biggest ommission is not involving Mike Vellucci, as a Canadian I hope and pray they never ever involve him!

American Dream....not sure if i ever said this but you're one of my favourite posters on here....you're a darn straight shooter without blinders!!!
For Canadians sake, i hope USA Hockey never reads your posts!

 

[maxpenguins6630]

To be honest with you, for me the American team was too big... Not fast enough... Archibald and the other small forward belonged there...

This team would have won some games if Etem, Bjugstad, Watson, Saad, Miller... would have played as their status of legitimate prime NHL prospect...

They are the one that are supposed to get this team going... They are the one that played more than 11 minutes of Power Play.... They didn't get much going...

How about Campbell the superstar and Gibson, the better save % is 86,8%... Is it good enough... Instead of complaining about the supporting cast... Complain about the supposed big guns, the stars of this team.

I'm embarrassed by team USA, I didn't think they were a strong contender for gold but the politics of USA hockey, once again need to be addressed, there is zero reason for guys like Archibald/Tynan etc on this team, to many small similar player that lack skill. I was dumbfounded that Tyler Biggs was left off.

The Prince fanboys however, can spare me. he wouldn't make much difference.

Disappointed alot in the play of Forbort and Merrill, Clendenning is also not very good.

However, we will find out who the competitors are tomorrow, and who the quitters are, whos' going to show up and compete?

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

I believe USA Hockey is a little too scripted. I've read a lot of their coaching manuals and there seems to be very little room for creativity, the type of creativity slickness that is developed by standard shinny. They have been developing N/S players without who are big with excellent speed and a strong shot. There are obvious exceptions but even with this team, they lacked offensive creativity up front.

 

[PerpetualTankYear]

Atleast the USA gets to look forward to whomping on Latvia and Switzerland/Slovakia right?

 

[Minister of Offence]

Most of the people bringing up Prince are Sens fans with an agenda.....honestly he's not an impact player at this level. Knight deserved a spot, and so did biggs. I'm tired of team USA loading up it's bottom 6 with ****ing skill less midgets every year

Lol

Seems like more wanted prince then Biggs. Watching this tournament I can only imagine prince would have made an impact. Certainly better than some of the others they took.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I totally agree with everything you've said here. Worrying about bringing more CHL'ers is completely missing the point. This group of players was having serious problems with the fundamentals of being a team. It doesn't matter what kind of experience you have against the players on the other team if you make a pass that's five feet behind the player you're passing to. There were countless plays where my jaw literally dropped. It's almost like I was watching the polar opposite version of the '10 team.



That's a bit contradictory there.



There wasn't a single Finnish CHL'er on the ice the other night. If anything, the NTDP kids have a lot more experience playing against (and beating) the Finnish players. That experience didn't really make a difference either way.

Personally, I'd like to see us succeed using our own system. The Russians (and the Swedes more recently) do a great job of using players from their own system to be an annual force at this tournament. Why can't we do it that way? We certainly have the resources at our disposal. Why should we be the only hockey country on Earth that can support an elite hockey development system yet rely on sending our players to another country's development system?

The NTDP was created because we weren't getting results using players who'd come through either NCAA or CHL hockey and had barely played together. It's certainly been very successful at the U18 level but if the NTDP can't solve the U20 tournament, what can? Maybe it's really more about improving development at the youth level like many have said over the years.

Yakupov
KoKo
Namestikov
(I'm tired and going to bed, so I may have missed someone)

All Russian players that came over to the CHL to play. They have played in the Russian "system" to varying degrees, but not on an everyday basis, and it certainly hasn't seemed to slow that team down?

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

I missed the 3rd period. Does anyone know where I can see the game?

I could not find it on TSN.

 

[bbfrc]

Big game tommorow, the U.S always comes to meet us face to face, I respect that.



I just hope the best team wins tommmorow.



I'm sure it will.

It always does.

And I am most confident that classless Canadians will show up and boo the crap out of the Americans....win or lose.

Im sure they will.

They always do.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

I missed the 3rd period. Does anyone know where I can see the game?

I could not find it on TSN.

Never mind. Found it.

Anyway, I hope the U.S. wins on NYE. I think it might be in Canada's best interest to lose, or have a close game, before the Playoffs.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

And I am most confident that classless Canadians will show up and boo the crap out of the Americans....win or lose.

Im sure they will.

They always do.

This obviously only happens in Canada.

Nowhere else in the world does the home crowd boo the rival team, right?

 

[rick3652]

And I am most confident that classless Canadians will show up and boo the crap out of the Americans....win or lose.

Im sure they will.

They always do.

and the Americans do not boo the Canadians when we are in their country playing against them?

There is nothing classless booing the other team.

I watch a lot of NFL games and I see Americans booing and making a lot of noise when the visiting team have the ball trying to score.

So are the Americans Classless? You lost. You are not going for gold. take it like a man not like a BABY.

 

[William H Bonney]

Didn't see today's game due to work but I guess that's for the best. Most disappointing USA result maybe ever. A shameful tournament for USA Hockey.

 

[Cam98]

it sucks tomorrows game is meaningless...when i bought tickets for this game back during priority draw. I was looking forward to this game the most, still am. But because USA isn't battling Canada for first in pool just won't feel as intense as in past years.

 

[Rob]

I have no doubt US hockey is in fine shape. This tournament is a good barometer to how strong youth hockey is but it isn't the be all end all some make it out to be.

I'm sure they'll be a medal contender again next year.

 

[NotProkofievian]

And I am most confident that classless Canadians will show up and boo the crap out of the Americans....win or lose.

Im sure they will.

They always do.

Oh would you get over it? USA's not an underdog in this tournament and hasn't been for a long time. You're one of the top hockey nations in the world. Because of that, you are our rivals.

What a cry baby...