U.S. National Team Part VII

[Cochese]

I believe......

I believe that.....

I believe that we will....

I believe that we will not qualify for the World Cup!!!

Haha loving this.

 

[BrokenFace]

At least now we know that the players are the problem and the program needs to move forward with a long term plan that focuses on quality young players developing in quality systems rather than sticking to a flawed starting XI. Basically we now know we need a Jurgen Klinsmann clone.

It's easier to fire a coach than it is to replace a group of players, but that doesn't mean it's smarter.

 

[NJDevs26]

I'm not AS anti-Klinsmann as most but he was clearly throwing **** against a wall and changing everything constantly by the end and the results were so horrible he had to be sacked. I don't really see what he and his overhaul added in the long term other than a bunch of dual national eligibles who really can't play. After an outcome like this, the coach AND players both get replaced anyway. If Klinsmann had stayed they probably go splat earlier and he'd have been out after this regardless.

 

[Cin]

What a f***ing worthless group of shit.

Hearing all of these people talk the last few years about how it's great that American players are coming back to the US. f*** that. Worthless f***ing piece of shit league. Making our National team players even worse than they already were. Amazing. Truly amazing.

Relying on the same crop of shit we've relied on for years. Amazing.

Going back to Arena. lol

Our players need to go to Europe. No more bringing them back home. Build the MLS on the back of south American players, or Americans that won't be on the national team. No NT player should be playing in f***ing America for at least another four years.

What an absolute colossal embarrassment. Bring in a new manager, new board, new f***ing everything.

Burn everything to the ground except for Pulisic.

 

[Cin]

Donovan, Dempsey, and Pulisic have been on that level in the wing/attacking-mid positions.

Not even a little bit. Donovan and Dempsey were average at best. Pulisic is the greatest talent to ever come out of this country by an absolute mile. Not even within the same universe as those other two losers.

 

[McDonald19]

Not even a little bit. Donovan and Dempsey were average at best. Pulisic is the greatest talent to ever come out of this country by an absolute mile. Not even within the same universe as those other two losers.

Donovan had moments of being an elite player. Best USA player until Pulisic.

 

[McDonald19]

With the US out, does Fox back out of televising the World Cup next year (ala 1980 Summer Games)?

No, but I'm sure they are a little disappointed.

 

[philip]

I think an argument can be made for the mini-rise of the MLS contributing to a decline of the national team. More players are thinking it's a viable career choice to play their football in the US instead of getting away to Europe at a young age. MLS is good for when your glory days are behind you and you've contributed all you can, but it's not a good place to learn good habits and football style.

 

[Live in the Now]

The way MLS contributed to the decline of our team is that now smaller countries in the region have a league to send their players to so they can get better. Other than Dempsey none of the players who returned to MLS were very good in the first place, or they were too old to play in a real league. Michael Bradley has never been consistently good for the US.

Our young players don't need to be playing in MLS for very long, but I don't think we can relate these results to MLS. There is one thing I will relate to MLS though. The fact that we don't have a goal scorer. Look at the MLS golden boot table if you don't see the problem. The defenses in this league really suck and there are no Americans who can score goals consistently in it. This should not be possible.

The real problem with this team was something that popped up against Honduras. They had no organized style of playing whatsoever. When chasing that goal in Honduras, the US immediately abandoned their shape and started doing whatever it took to score goals. I think we had two or three defenders in random positions come the end of that game, and we were lucky that Honduras didn't score again. Consistency is crucial, and when Arena said he hadn't given a moments thought to this game prior to the Panama game, I knew we were in trouble. There was no semblance of a plan or thought to what the US was doing. The plan was merely to qualify, there was no plan for how to accomplish it.

 

[kingsboy11]

Devastated is the word I keep coming too. I thought losing to the Hawks was bad, but this is a lot worse than I ever imagined. We can blame the coaching decisions, the field conditions, the players, MLS or whatever, but ultimately there isn't a single person or entity that deserves all the blame. Ultimately it comes down to upper management and the players. That first half was probably the most lack luster halves in the history of world cup qualifying. And I think what upsets me the most is seeing our prized prodigy, our best player only at the age of 19 will not be able to show case his skills on biggest stage. This kid is the reason we weren't knocked out earlier in the Hex and he has the biggest balls on the team and no one is in the same ball park.

The arrogance got the best of them. They get what they deserve. This will not cripple the sport, if anything I'm hoping it will further motivate everyone to fix this ****. Hopefully the new guys who come in will have an actual vision and plan.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

With the US out, does Fox back out of televising the World Cup next year (ala 1980 Summer Games)?

LOL, it's not a boycott.

 

[Ivan13]

Listening to the US commentator pronouncing Pulisic's surname gave me cancer.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Listening to the US commentator pronouncing Pulisic's surname gave me cancer.

Pool-a-sick?

When he came up to the team, the kid himself corrected the initial pronounciatuon as most announcers were using the “ich” ending on it.

How would you pronounce it?

 

[East Coast Bias]

Gulati has to go. Crooked little hobit.

The issues run deeper than the surface (coach, tactics, Senior players).

We need to overhaul our youth programs. But the American way is to structure it to make the most $$$$ and I don’t know how that changes.

 

[Chimaera]

Donovan and Dempsey were never elite. They never were world class. At any time, there aren't that many world class players.

Both were very good, but neither world class. Dempsey did have a run with Fulham where he was scoring in England to where he was pretty good, but never world class. He doesn't do anything particularly great.

Donovan never really cut it in Europe, and while he was a good player, there's never been a time where he'd be really considered in the top 30-40 players in the world.


Pulisic isn't there yet either. He's a talented kid, and his ceiling is to where he could be a player who gets into that top 15-20 player range, but he has a ways to go. He hasn't even really hit his prime at all. He probably won't do that until 22-23, and that's a ways from now. His next club is going to dictate some of that.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Donovan and Dempsey were never elite. They never were world class. At any time, there aren't that many world class players.

Both were very good, but neither world class. Dempsey did have a run with Fulham where he was scoring in England to where he was pretty good, but never world class. He doesn't do anything particularly great.

Donovan never really cut it in Europe, and while he was a good player, there's never been a time where he'd be really considered in the top 30-40 players in the world.


Pulisic isn't there yet either. He's a talented kid, and his ceiling is to where he could be a player who gets into that top 15-20 player range, but he has a ways to go. He hasn't even really hit his prime at all. He probably won't do that until 22-23, and that's a ways from now. His next club is going to dictate some of that.

I never said they were, just said that, that trio was on a similar level as Keller, Friedel, and Howard. Those are the 2 positions that we've had semi-decent success at producing players capable at playing at decent clubs in top Euro clubs. Reyna and Bradley have had success in Europe, but we haven't been as consistent at developing CM's as those other 2 positions.

We've never had a truly elite player, at any position, but that wasn't the point.

 

[Chimaera]

I don't buy the narrative that the MLS is the reason these players are not performing. they got beat by players who wouldn't make some of the MLS rosters throughout the Qualifying tournament. I would certainly agree with the fact that it gives more talent from CONCACAF places to play professionally. But I don't know that it's the reason they're not doing well.

The central problem for the US right now, and what it's been since Jurgen took over is they don't know what they are. They've got some better players than they've had in the past, and the depth for the player pool is probably better than it's ever been, but what exactly are they style wise? How are they going to go about getting results week in and week out? Do they just try and outscore other teams? Do they play defense and hope to win it on the counter? What do they do? Are they a possession team?

In the past, they knew what they were. They were a hard working team that didn't have the talent to beat most sides, but they would play up to their competition. Now they think they're probably more talented then they are. They've got players who are decent, who haven't put in that same commitment and work that they need.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Listening to the US commentator pronouncing Pulisic's surname gave me cancer.

That's the way he asked them to pronounce it. When he first came up, they used the Euro-traditional pronunciation, but like many others in America, he prefers the Americanized version of the name.

 

[Chimaera]

I mean, I think some of you are sleeping on John Harkes, Claudio Reyna and others who came before, but it's hard to remember the past when they were pretty bad. But they've had some players who were decent in the past.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I don't buy the narrative that the MLS is the reason these players are not performing. they got beat by players who wouldn't make some of the MLS rosters throughout the Qualifying tournament. I would certainly agree with the fact that it gives more talent from CONCACAF places to play professionally. But I don't know that it's the reason they're not doing well.

The central problem for the US right now, and what it's been since Jurgen took over is they don't know what they are. They've got some better players than they've had in the past, and the depth for the player pool is probably better than it's ever been, but what exactly are they style wise? How are they going to go about getting results week in and week out? Do they just try and outscore other teams? Do they play defense and hope to win it on the counter? What do they do? Are they a possession team?

In the past, they knew what they were. They were a hard working team that didn't have the talent to beat most sides, but they would play up to their competition. Now they think they're probably more talented then they are. They've got players who are decent, who haven't put in that same commitment and work that they need.

Right. Herc keeps trying to push this narrative on ESPN that this is the most talent we've had. Is Nagbe or Arriola really that much better than a young Beasley when he played further forward on the wings? Altidore is the same as he's always been, incredibly inconsistent. Bradley has regressed. Pulisic has basically just replaced the Dempsey/Donovan role of carrying the team offensively. Defensively they are a mess.

At what position do we have depth and talent to actually push the starters? What starters can reasonably be dropped from the starting 11 when they have a bad game? They really aren't that talented or deep.

 

[Burner Account]

I don't know if one can attribute this failure to the MLS, but I do believe the MLS and the USMNT hinder each other's progress.

 

[East Coast Bias]

I don't buy the narrative that the MLS is the reason these players are not performing. they got beat by players who wouldn't make some of the MLS rosters throughout the Qualifying tournament. I would certainly agree with the fact that it gives more talent from CONCACAF places to play professionally. But I don't know that it's the reason they're not doing well.

The central problem for the US right now, and what it's been since Jurgen took over is they don't know what they are. They've got some better players than they've had in the past, and the depth for the player pool is probably better than it's ever been, but what exactly are they style wise? How are they going to go about getting results week in and week out? Do they just try and outscore other teams? Do they play defense and hope to win it on the counter? What do they do? Are they a possession team?

In the past, they knew what they were. They were a hard working team that didn't have the talent to beat most sides, but they would play up to their competition. Now they think they're probably more talented then they are. They've got players who are decent, who haven't put in that same commitment and work that they need.

MLS has meant a lot to the other teams in CONCACAF though. They send their players to develop here now. The unintended consequence of MLS may be that we've closed the gap in teams below us.

Call me a Euro snob, but I would much rather our guys play overseas. MLS is like 50% exhibition. Everyone makes the playoffs, you can draw through half the season. There's so many team that it's watered down comp.

MLS is not THE reason. It's a contributing factor though. They've spent billions on the damn league.

(Pay to play driving our youth set up is much more a reason IMO.)

 

[bleedblue1223]

I don't know if one can attribute this failure to the MLS, but I do believe the MLS and the USMNT hinder each other's progress.

It's all a factor. There has to be a spot that is really invested in the development of young Americans, especially in attacking positions. Then, again, when a player like Kellyn Acosta gets developed in the MLS and shows upside, the USMNT has to integrate them more into the starting 11. There is no reason why Acosta couldn't have played a bigger role.

An increase in home-grown requirements would probably do some good.

 

[chasespace]

The only way the MLS has hurt the USMNT is by upping the level of players that play on teams we used to dominate(T&T, Honduras, Panama, etc).

The worrying trend here is our U20 team doesn't have any standout prospects, from what I see. Our best hopes are on the U17 team and they'll be 21-22 during the 2022 Cup, younger for the WCQ slog.

 

[Chimaera]

I would say they're still one of the more talented groups that they've ever had. They are by default because the other rosters were scraping the barrel to find 18 guys. I don't know that it's the best roster, or best 11 that they've ever had. But there are many more players who could play for the team now than in the past.

It certainly isn't the best defending group ever, and that's much of the problem. They can't find a solid back four that they had in the past. In the past, they knew each week who was playing there. Now, who knows. They have no rhythm, they've lost consistency and they don't know who to play where, and players who should have progressed took bad moves and aren't playing for their professional clubs.

The talent pool is much deeper now. I also think that's some of the problem. They don't know exactly who to use and each week the lineups are all over the place. Pick 20 guys, go with those for the next cycle, sprinkle in two or three call ups who you think could crack the roster or make your side better, and forget the rest. They shouldn't have a situation where 40 or 50 guys are in the hunt for spots. Pick your best, go with them.