Tyler Wright: Red Wings trying to be trend setters at draft

ChadS

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You can look on the standings as much as you want. But our new drafting squad has proably 1% influnce on that situation.

Our current core and players in prime were drafted by Jim Nill and Joe McDonell. Go ask for them about drafting problems. Tyler Wright's results will be seen later.

If he drafts for 9 drafts like later Red Wings scouting directors, his last draft will be at 2023 and players from that draft reach their prime 6-8 years after. So we can give a final grade for Tyler Wright somewhere at ~2030. 12 years after this current moment.

Then Wright's first pick Larkin is 33-year old, starting to be past his prime and we have seen some parts of the career primes of every player Wright ever drafted.

That's how you analyze scouting directors.
I didn't say anything about blaming our draft personnel... You complained about people finding problems everywhere and I simply listed three obvious reasons why they're probably doing so.

I agree it's too early to judge Wright's work. In fact I think his picks are looking pretty good if the strategy has been that which they've described publicly. He's not the one in charge of that strategy, he just makes the best picks to support it.
 

Redder Winger

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It's because people who never seen the prospect play a game before drafting believe he is the absolute best pick because some random scouting report guy wrote a report and the fan likes the name on the back of the jersey; thinks it sounds cool. When that player they believe has a cool name on their back isn't drafted, they automatically think the Red Wings scouts are stupid. Lol.

That's what it really boils down to. We can look no further than last draft to see it. RAM was declared a "bust" before any of those people ever watched him play. I bet dollars to donuts he hones out a better NHL career than both Valardi and Necas. I watched all of them play. Was never impressed with the latter two guys.

Time will tell =)

If you watched the Memorial Cup and you weren't impressed with Vilardi, I think you're going to lose a lot of dollars.
 

jkutswings

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I didn't say anything about blaming our draft personnel... You complained about people finding problems everywhere and I simply listed three obvious reasons why they're probably doing so.

I agree it's too early to judge Wright's work. In fact I think his picks are looking pretty good if the strategy has been that which they've described publicly. He's not the one in charge of that strategy, he just makes the best picks to support it.
I mostly agree. Although, as being in charge of scouting, it's Wright's job to have updates on current draft prospects and know what's on the horizon, and to what degree those (best guess) evaluations are compatible with a given strategy. So he definitely has SOME input on it.
 

Dotter

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If you watched the Memorial Cup and you weren't impressed with Vilardi, I think you're going to lose a lot of dollars.

Meh. Overrated. I find the Memorial Cup nothing more special than a NHL preseason game. Put him in the NHL and see what he does. I'll go with Ras.

Gonna be a fun thread to bump in 5 years to 7 years.
 

kliq

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If you watched the Memorial Cup and you weren't impressed with Vilardi, I think you're going to lose a lot of dollars.

I watched him play in person (1 game mind you) and to be completely honest he looked ok. The player that really stuck out was Bracco. Kid's good, but may be too small for the NHL. Great skater.
 

Marky9er

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Meh. Overrated. I find the Memorial Cup nothing more special than a NHL preseason game. Put him in the NHL and see what he does. I'll go with Ras.

Gonna be a fun thread to bump in 5 years to 7 years.
This is interesting as Tyler Bertuzzi was lights out in the Memorial Cup, and is now starting to surprise his naysayers.

Vilardi has great hands but that may not be enough. Perhaps he is a better skater/gets healthy, or smarts and determination will make him a realgud player. But only time will tell and I assume that gamble explains his fall on draft day.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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This is interesting as Tyler Bertuzzi was lights out in the Memorial Cup, and is now starting to surprise his naysayers.

Vilardi has great hands but that may not be enough. Perhaps he is a better skater/gets healthy, or smarts and determination will make him a realgud player. But only time will tell and I assume that gamble explains his fall on draft day.

He looked very good at the Memorial Cup but that was another moment where you saw why people point out his skating. He reminded me of Dany Heatley. I think that says a lot about him, but it also points out something that is hard to ignore, his skating is troublesome and he flashes dominance offensively despite it. Really smart player and likely a very good winger in the NHL for years... Not a center... I walked away thinking that after his dominant Memorial Cup, guys that cannot skate struggle to play center at the NHL level. If you could develop that step man would it be great. We also could basically have two gambles of those kind of guys if we had Vilardi and Holmstrom.
 

Dotter

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This is interesting as Tyler Bertuzzi was lights out in the Memorial Cup, and is now starting to surprise his naysayers.

Vilardi has great hands but that may not be enough. Perhaps he is a better skater/gets healthy, or smarts and determination will make him a realgud player. But only time will tell and I assume that gamble explains his fall on draft day.

Tyler can at least skate. I'll eat my hat if Vilardi has a better NHL career than Ras. Again, I would be perfectly okay if someone bumps this thread in the future to point out how wrong I was. Put me in my place and tell me how stupid I am. But I just don't see it.
 

Rzombo4 prez

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He looked very good at the Memorial Cup but that was another moment where you saw why people point out his skating. He reminded me of Dany Heatley. I think that says a lot about him, but it also points out something that is hard to ignore, his skating is troublesome and he flashes dominance offensively despite it. Really smart player and likely a very good winger in the NHL for years... Not a center... I walked away thinking that after his dominant Memorial Cup, guys that cannot skate struggle to play center at the NHL level. If you could develop that step man would it be great. We also could basically have two gambles of those kind of guys if we had Vilardi and Holmstrom.

This is pretty spot on. I think Vilardi is going to be a very nice NHL player and has at least an even money chance of being better than Ras, but he is not a center at the next level (if you consider him one at the current level) with his feet. Looking at this year's draft, my gut tells me we were smart to aim for a center with our first round pick last year, even though I would have preferred others.
 

Frk It

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This is pretty spot on. I think Vilardi is going to be a very nice NHL player and has at least an even money chance of being better than Ras, but he is not a center at the next level (if you consider him one at the current level) with his feet. Looking at this year's draft, my gut tells me we were smart to aim for a center with our first round pick last year, even though I would have preferred others.

He might not be, but I don't think you can definitively say that at this point. People had very similar concerns with Draisaitl at the same age.

I think Vilardi will be something between Galchenyuk and Draisaitl, FWIW. You and TZE may be right, Necas may have been the worst guy to have passed on. Those were my 2 highest guys on my board when we were picking though. Being in a cluster with Mittelstadt before, and Necas/Vilardi immediately after puts some pressure on us IMO.
 
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jkutswings

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He might not be, but I don't think you can definitively say that at this point. People had very similar concerns with Draisaitl at the same age.

I think Vilardi will be something between Galchenyuk and Draisaitl, FWIW. You and TZE may be right, Necas may have been the worst guy to have passed on. Those were my 2 highest guys on my board when we were picking though. Being in a cluster with Mittelstadt before, and Necas/Vilardi immediately after puts some pressure on us IMO.
To your credit (at this very early juncture), you were higher on Necas than I was, but I would've been thrilled with either Middlestadt or Vilardi at 9. We'll see how it all shakes out.
 

Pavels Dog

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I think Vilardi will be something between Galchenyuk and Draisaitl, FWIW.
That seems like a pretty wide target though. Essentially something between a 50-60 point one-dimensional winger or a 70-80 point two-way C? Personally I haven't seen Vilardi play other than in highlights, but it feels as if he had ANY realistic potential to be Draisatl-good he would have gone higher.
 

Frk It

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That seems like a pretty wide target though. Essentially something between a 50-60 point one-dimensional winger or a 70-80 point two-way C? Personally I haven't seen Vilardi play other than in highlights, but it feels as if he had ANY realistic potential to be Draisatl-good he would have gone higher.

He's 18 years old. His development could go a lot of different ways. They both had question marks on their skating. Draisaitl improved his a lot, remains to be seen if Vilardi can.
 
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Redder Winger

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That seems like a pretty wide target though. Essentially something between a 50-60 point one-dimensional winger or a 70-80 point two-way C? Personally I haven't seen Vilardi play other than in highlights, but it feels as if he had ANY realistic potential to be Draisatl-good he would have gone higher.

He was ranked as highly as third in a lot of the rating services, despite missing considerable time with injury.
 

Redder Winger

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He might not be, but I don't think you can definitively say that at this point. People had very similar concerns with Draisaitl at the same age.

I think Vilardi will be something between Galchenyuk and Draisaitl, FWIW. You and TZE may be right, Necas may have been the worst guy to have passed on. Those were my 2 highest guys on my board when we were picking though. Being in a cluster with Mittelstadt before, and Necas/Vilardi immediately after puts some pressure on us IMO.

I think passing on Lilkegren is the other big one.

The other guy I had at 9 was Robert Thomas, even though I knew it was much higher than the conventional ratings for him.
Right now, Thomas is looking like #9 would have been pretty good.

On a blog I do, I did two draftwire exercises:

On the first one, I did a lot of trading down.
14th, Cody Glass, C, Portland
38th, Michael Rasmussen, C, Tri-City
48th, Ian Mitchell, RD, Spruce Grove
66th, Luke Martin, RD, Michigan
72nd, Cale Fluery, RD, Kootenay
71st, Jesper Boqvist, C, Timra
72nd, Cale Fleury, RD, Kootenay
83rd, Tommy Miller, RD, Michigan State
88th, Kiril Slepets, LW, Lokomotiv

On the second, I just straight drafted:.
9th, Glass
38th, Robert Thomas, C, London
71st, Luke Martin, RD, Michigan
83rd, Tommy Miller, RD, MSU
88th, Gustav Lindstrom, RD, Altumna

Both times I got lucky.
As I noted after the second draft: I'll take it! I'd consider taking Thomas at 9. He and Glass at center for the next 15 years? Yes please.
 
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Frk It

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For sure. Same applies to Rasmussen.

Agree.. and that's why I hate those re-draft threads people are already making. It's way too early to even have a meaningful conversation on where people should be ranked. That's like debating who is cooking the best pizza when they have been in the oven for 10 seconds.

Rasmussen wasn't my preferred pick, but he could still exceed everyone's expectations. Right now I'd have the same people ahead of him I did 6 months ago, and same people behind him I did. But he could absolutely change that, for sure.
 
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Redder Winger

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Agree.. and that's why I hate those re-draft threads people are already making. It's way too early to even have a meaningful conversation on where people should be ranked. That's like debating who is cooking the best pizza when they have been in the oven for 10 seconds.

Rasmussen wasn't my preferred pick, but he could still exceed everyone's expectations. Right now I'd have the same people ahead of him I did 6 months ago, and same people behind him I did. But he could absolutely change that, for sure.

I hated the Rasmussen pick. But he did well enough in camp to make me feel better about it.
 

Rzombo4 prez

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He might not be, but I don't think you can definitively say that at this point. People had very similar concerns with Draisaitl at the same age.

I think Vilardi will be something between Galchenyuk and Draisaitl, FWIW. You and TZE may be right, Necas may have been the worst guy to have passed on. Those were my 2 highest guys on my board when we were picking though. Being in a cluster with Mittelstadt before, and Necas/Vilardi immediately after puts some pressure on us IMO.

You are correct to question an absolutist statement, but I feel very comfortable with my evaluation. I also think the fact that he fell as far as he did suggests that a lot of other teams felt the same way. Again, I wouldn't have been unhappy with him as a pick. I just would not be viewing him as a center prospect.

Drastically improving your skating is not nearly as easy as this board makes it out to be and creates a natural ceiling for a lot of players. Draisatil is more of the exception than the norm in that regard. In the case of Vilardi I don't think it will prevent him from playing in the NHL. I do, however, think it will prevent him from playing in the middle. As you correctly point out, however, only time will tell.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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He's 18 years old. His development could go a lot of different ways. They both had question marks on their skating. Draisaitl improved his a lot, remains to be seen if Vilardi can.

Draisaitl always had the correct stride though, something you can see building out. I guess maybe that is just me, but I had Draisaitl as the #1 forward in his draft year, I felt a lot better about him than Vilardi. There was also very much even with Draisaitl's fathers pro hockey status that I wondered if he had access to the kind of conditioning and power skating coaches before he came to the WHL.

Vilardi has some magnificent gifts, I think he can overcome his skating problems and be a very relevant winger in the NHL. But I absolutely buy if the reason the Wings passed on him was they wanted a center. I had the same real concerns when I watched him even during some of his bigger highlights like the Memorial Cup those questions were there to be asked.
 
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Henkka

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The stakes are high for Tyler Wright, and the Red Wings

It's time to bump this thread up.


But it's hard to look at the Red Wings 2017 draft class and say it fits that identity of skill and speed, the foundation on which the Red Wings championship teams were built. There was a lot of size, character and players who compete. Wright explained the reason why.

“When the Penguins come in and go small, with speed and no one can catch them, everyone tries to play catch up,” Wright said, defending the 2017 draft. “Where is the NHL going? We're on the other side of that. We're trying to be trend setters.”

Discussion started based on this comment.

Now many succesful GMs in NHL are throwing big money for Ryan Reaveses and Tom Wilsons. First Pittsburgh, then Vegas traded/signed him. Now Tom Wilson. HF Boards are laughing for these contracts, but GMs are dead serious.

Best GMs from last summers, SC winner Pittsburgh, SC Finalist Las Vegas, SC Winner Washington.

They are setting a trend.

They are throwing money for players, who are not based on any kind of statistic, except a physical element. Wilson killed many opposite players on last playoffs and his element had a huge impact for their win.

NHL is not gonna just speed and skill in the future. Physicality will come back. That sells. That bumps your ass of from the seat, when a boring game is going. NHL trends are a circle, which goes around and around. Force will face a counterforce.

This is same Tyler Wright talked a year ago.

Times are changing.
 
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Frk It

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NHL is not gonna just speed and skill in the future. Physicality will come back. That sells. That bumps your ass of from the seat, when a boring game is going. NHL trends are a circle, which goes around and around. Force will face a counterforce.

This is same Tyler Wright talked a year ago.

Times are changing.

Except the NHL wants that, and if you had to deal with all the liability that goes along with concussions and CTE, you would too.

Also don’t know why you brought up Pittsburgh when they won the Cup with no physical presence then dumped Reaves after not even having him a full season.

You’re really reaching with this particular rant. If we get good again, it’s going to be because of the skilled players we just drafted (Zadina, Berggren) and the ones we add from here (Hughes, whoever). I’m fine with mixing in some physical guys with them, but someone else will be driving the bus.
 
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Henkka

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Except the NHL wants that, and if you had to deal with all the liability that goes along with concussions and CTE, you would too.

Also don’t know why you brought up Pittsburgh when they won the Cup with no physical presence then dumped Reaves after not even having him a full season.

You’re really reaching with this particular rant. If we get good again, it’s going to be because of the skilled players we just drafted (Zadina, Berggren) and the ones we add from here (Hughes, whoever). I’m fine with mixing in some physical guys with them, but someone else will be driving the bus.

Did I say that skill won't be in the mix?

What was Yzerman between Probert and Kocur? What was Lemieux between Stevens and Tocchet? What was Gretzky with Semenko, McSorley or Tikkanen.

Of course skill will drive the play always. But many GMs are now doing things, throwing money on certain directions, and at same time these are also smart winning GMs. Not sudden idiots. they know where the game is heading, before any of us. The actions and talks go hand-in-hand. you can make pedictions based on what is happening. I know this is early, maybe I'm wrong, but there's no smoke without a fire.

I don't know nothing by myself, but I just read and hear things and collect them together. Management people are talking about this. They create the game.

Too many of fans are just watching what is happening now. It's like a stock market. See the future. What happens now, it's already late.

If you hear what the managent and players are saying, there's really a big love against physical play era. They want to add it back on the sport, with skill and speed, not just taking something away.

NHL is a big marketing machine. Winning sells most. Everybody can't win. Physicality + adding fights more possible again is what sells second most, imo.

NHL will want to sell their product, be more of action-based like NFL than MLB, which is dead boring currently.

When I watched the IceGuardians document, it changed a bit of my thinking. Players from 80's era are managing things, they want to spark the sport with the element which was with them.
 

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