Value of: Tyler Bozak & James VanRiemsdyk

[sansabri]

Vermette got a solid return because there were several bids on him. This would also apply to Bozak if several teams were competing for his services - which no one could really know on here.

 

[blankall]

Vermette was a rental was he not? Same with Hanzal, same with Ladd. There's examples every year.

All of those players bring far more intangibles than Bozak. All were also considered bad deals. You don't think a 29 year old Andrew Ladd is more desirable of a player than Bozak?

Basically you are saying that players who are better than Bozak get traded for 1st round picks, in deals that are widely seen as overpayments, yet Bozak is also worth a 1st rounder..just because.

 

[garyturner3]

Vermette got a solid return because there were several bids on him. This would also apply to Bozak if several teams were competing for his services - which no one could really know on here.

Ya, that's what happens at the trade deadline every year. The teams buying bid on the players being sold. Vermette wasn't in some unique situation Bozak won't be in so I'm not sure what your point is here.

 

[firstemperor]

Management likely won't move either, they are riding both of them out into the sunset- given they are extremely productive offensive players- and they are sheltered in a 3rd line role anyways + we are competing this year, as is. You don't sell in that situation.

But if we're talking idealistically, I'd consider moving one of the two for the best futures we can get. If we're not getting at minimum, a 1st for either, there's no incentive for us to do a deal. It might have made more sense if we were still a rebuilding team.

 

[garyturner3]

All of those players bring far more intangibles than Bozak. All were also considered bad deals. You don't think a 29 year old Andrew Ladd is more desirable of a player than Bozak?

Basically you are saying that players who are better than Bozak get traded for 1st round picks, in deals that are widely seen as overpayments, yet Bozak is also worth a 1st rounder..just because.

Yes those trades may have been considered bad trades, but they weren't out of the ordinary. That's what it takes to get a player at the deadline the majority of the time. Teams overpay because they want to win; it happens every single year and it'll happen again this year. I'm not stating Bozak > Ladd. I'm saying those players I mentioned all returned MORE than a 1st round pick even though Bozak had better offensive numbers. I'm also not saying Bozak would return more than them. But a 1st round pick is most certainly in the range of the typical market value for a player like him. Seriously guys, just do some research for yourself. This isn't my crazy opinion on the matter; it's just comparing the situation to the majority of past deadline trades. Fourth liners and bottom pairing D-men return more than a 2nd round pick on a regular basis (see Winnik and Polak as perfect examples) and Bozak has much more value than both of them. I'm done explaining this you.

 

[sansabri]

Ya, that's what happens at the trade deadline every year. The teams buying bid on the players being sold. Vermette wasn't in some unique situation Bozak won't be in so I'm not sure what your point is here.

What? Players like Vermette always get a solid return. Hell, even Dale Wiese got a solid return. Bozak simply has more value to the Leafs.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Unless the Leafs are out of it at the deadline, there's no reason to deal either. Play the season out, and if you wanna bring them back try and re-sign them.

This is a reason... It's called not losing them for nothing. Bringing them back at team friendly deals won't be easy and they have to watch their cap for when the 3 young guns have to be re-signed. It really is a tough call to make for a team so young and talented. The only reason not to trade them is if the management feels they can win a cup. However, if they feel they are not quite at the cup contender status yet, the smart move is to trade them for 1st / 2nd round picks (deep draft) and prospects. This would help them stay under the cap for several years in the future with various prospects on ELC contracts.

 

[topshelf15]

I think keeping them for a playoff and hopefully more. Has more value than what they would likely return.Playing for draft picks should be over now

 

[Sypher04]

49+ points 3 of the last 4 seasons, and on pace to put up 50+ in all 4, but isn't a 50 point center.

Some of you are ridiculous sometimes.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Bozak would receive significantly more than a late 1st? We all watch games. He has some alright stats (except for his horrenedous +/-), but he is not the player who drives plays. Bozak as a rental is not getting you more than a late 1st. I think he'd bring back a 2nd.

Err, Bozak is a jack of all trades. Put him on any line, and he will produce at a 50 point pace. He plays both PK and PP, and is a top faceoff guy in the NHL. If a guy like Hanzal returns a first, Bozak is at least a first + prospect.

As per the thread, there isn't a deal that makes sense. If these two move, it is to allow room for guys like Kapanen and Leivo to make the roster. There is no room on defense unless they return a #1 which will not happen. Only thing that makes any sense is first rounders, which again, they are competing. Both will stay for a cup run. I am glad HF does not run the team. 4-1 and Leaf fans in sky is falling mode.

 

[Kamiccolo]

This exactly.

JVR will be extended long term in Toronto anyway. It is where he wants to play... no way he wants to leave now!

I see Bozak being moved for a 1st.

I will puke if this happens. Bozak should be the one to stay either way. Strong on faceoffs and good on special teams. JVR should never step foot on the ice as a Leaf again after this season.

 

[Steveei]

Its no sense in trading these two unless its an upgrade for a D that can help the roster this year. We are not trading JVR and Bozak for futures, that will only happen if we are completely out of the playoff picture by the deadline. We are in a position to win, not build.

 

[blankall]

Err, Bozak is a jack of all trades. Put him on any line, and he will produce at a 50 point pace. He plays both PK and PP, and is a top faceoff guy in the NHL. If a guy like Hanzal returns a first, Bozak is at least a first + prospect.

As per the thread, there isn't a deal that makes sense. If these two move, it is to allow room for guys like Kapanen and Leivo to make the roster. There is no room on defense unless they return a #1 which will not happen. Only thing that makes any sense is first rounders, which again, they are competing. Both will stay for a cup run. I am glad HF does not run the team. 4-1 and Leaf fans in sky is falling mode.

Bozak is most certainly not a jack of all trades. He has the 3rd lowest +/- among active players in the NHL. Bozak has averaged 2 seconds per game on the PK this year, and 5 seconds per game last year. He averaged 12 seconds in 2015/16.

Bozak is good at faceoffs. He's the kind of player you start in the offensive zone and use as a complimentary player to actual high end offensive threats. Bozak is a poor skater. Is poor in the defensive zone. He has poor physical game.

He is the exact opposite of a "jack of all trades" player, and is bordering on an offensive zone/pp specialist.

Hanzal is an entirely different kind of player. Hanzal is 6'6'' and pounds face while putting up similar numbers to Bozak. Hanzal is the physical threat people want for the playoffs. Hanzal's value was dramatically inflated by his size and physical game. No one sought him purely for his offence. Bozak is like Hanzal without the physcial game. Do the math.

 

[TMLeafs18]

I wouldn't move Bozak due to our lack of centre depth. If he only grabs a second round pick then he means more to the leafs for their playoff push.

JVR I hope is dumped. We have other young wingers that could jump in his spot. They may not add all the offense but they may improve other areas which mitigates some of the lose. JVR would probably fetch a decent amount. He's a first line LW on a lot of teams on a cheap contract that a lot of teams could fit into their roster. A 1st and a good prospect would make sense to me.

 

[LeafGrief]

Hanzal is an entirely different kind of player. Hanzal is 6'6'' and pounds face while putting up similar numbers to Bozak. Hanzal is the physical threat people want for the playoffs. Hanzal's value was dramatically inflated by his size and physical game. No one sought him purely for his offence. Bozak is like Hanzal without the physcial game. Do the math.

Hanzal has hit 40 points twice, their numbers are not the same at all. It's great than Hanzal plays physical, but it's pretty clear that teams are looking for different things when trading for either player. Bozak puts up more points than Hanzal. Hanzal has better grit/60 and better defense. A team that needs a gritty 3c goes with Hanzal, but do you really think a team like the Ducks would pay more for less points when they already have Getzlaf and Kesler as their #1 and 2c's?

And Bozak is not a poor skater at all.

 

[TorontoTrades]

Bozak we keep, make a run and he can walk.

JVR I hate to get nothing in return for him..

 

[5150]

Rangers will take a look at Bozak

 

[Man Bear Pig]

The Leafs greatest strength is the ability to roll 3 good scoring lines. In other words, depth. Trading that depth away would be silly. As much as I'd like to see a guy like Kapanen get a chance, he's unproven. We also currently dont have any one to replace Bozak. Nylander is taking draws but the plan seems to be that he'll be a center next year, not this year. JVR and Bozak will walk this summer after, hopefully, a good playoff push.

 

[blankall]

Hanzal has hit 40 points twice, their numbers are not the same at all. It's great than Hanzal plays physical, but it's pretty clear that teams are looking for different things when trading for either player. Bozak puts up more points than Hanzal. Hanzal has better grit/60 and better defense. A team that needs a gritty 3c goes with Hanzal, but do you really think a team like the Ducks would pay more for less points when they already have Getzlaf and Kesler as their #1 and 2c's?

And Bozak is not a poor skater at all.

I love how Hanzal hitting 40 points only twice is proof that he's not a 40 point player, yet Bozak, who has only hit 50 points once is definitely a 50 point player.

Hanzal has been on pace for 40 or more points every year for the last 6 years. Tyler Bozak is also a year older than Hanzal, yet has one less career point than Hanzal. Hanzal has been more injury prone lately, but he was healthy at the time he was traded.

So once again, Hanzal is a similar player offensively to Bozak, but has a much higher upside physically.

 

[gabeliscious]

leafs arent in a position to move bozak yet. they can and should think about moving jvr if they can get fair value for him.

 

[The Assclown]

leafs arent in a position to move bozak yet. they can and should think about moving jvr if they can get fair value for him.

Agree regarding Bozak- he's needed strictly for his faceoff ability if nothing else, especially in the playoffs.

The depth on wing can allow for the Leafs to get some assets back for JVR, but the optics of it would not be favourable to management, IMO, if they are in a solid position come the TDL.

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

I love how Hanzal hitting 40 points only twice is proof that he's not a 40 point player, yet Bozak, who has only hit 50 points once is definitely a 50 point player.

Hanzal has been on pace for 40 or more points every year for the last 6 years. Tyler Bozak is also a year older than Hanzal, yet has one less career point than Hanzal. Hanzal has been more injury prone lately, but he was healthy at the time he was traded.

So once again, Hanzal is a similar player offensively to Bozak, but has a much higher upside physically.

Hanzal 633 games, 327 points
Bozak 518 games, 326 points.

So Bozak has earned one less point while playing 115 fewer games.
Hanzal is not a similar player offensively.

 

[LeafGrief]

I love how Hanzal hitting 40 points only twice is proof that he's not a 40 point player, yet Bozak, who has only hit 50 points once is definitely a 50 point player.

Hanzal has been on pace for 40 or more points every year for the last 6 years. Tyler Bozak is also a year older than Hanzal, yet has one less career point than Hanzal. Hanzal has been more injury prone lately, but he was healthy at the time he was traded.

So once again, Hanzal is a similar player offensively to Bozak, but has a much higher upside physically.

I didn't say anything about what we call him. You're the one arguing on previous pages about labels. Bozak scores about 20% more points every ear than Hanzal does, no matter how much you twist it or apply semantics, their numbers are not the same. It makes way more sense to argue about their other attributes than to just be wrong about their numbers and the offense they bring.

 

[blankall]

Hanzal 633 games, 327 points
Bozak 518 games, 326 points.

So Bozak has earned one less point while playing 115 fewer games.
Hanzal is not a similar player offensively.

Hanzel entered the league much earlier. He's also 1 year younger. You would expect a player to score more if they'd had more time to develop.