Value of: Tyler Bozak & James VanRiemsdyk

[Nizdizzle]

Bozak would receive significantly more than a late 1st? We all watch games. He has some alright stats (except for his horrenedous +/-), but he is not the player who drives plays. Bozak as a rental is not getting you more than a late 1st. I think he'd bring back a 2nd.

You can think all you want, but history would suggest otherwise. Proven 50+ point players with excellent faceoff skills aren't ever moved for that little of a return.

 

[Habs Halifax]

This is going to be a story that is talked about more and more as the season goes along if the Leafs keep playing they way they have been. I believe the reason why they are hard to beat is the depth they have in their top 9. You remove JVR and Bozak and how do you fill these holes?

Leafs would have to fall off pretty bad if they are trading these two at the deadline IMO. And any team interested in trading for them will offer picks and prospects. It's a difficult situation and the Leafs management have to balance pleasing the fan base that wants a deep playoff run (and deserves it too) vs building their prospect pool even more and positioning themselves to be a powerhouse for many years to come. Their prospect pool after the graduation of their 3 young guns is decent but adding to this will better situate themselves to be under the cap after they lock up some of the elite level talent.

So it comes down to JVR/Bozak for a deep playoff run vs Additional Prospects/Future Cap relieve. Tough call to make!

As far as value on the trade market:
- JVR: 1st and 2nd or prospect. If Hanzal can get a 1st and 2nd, so can JVR
- Bozak: 2nd and mid level prospect. Could be more. Bozak is hard to predict IMO

 

[biotk]

You remove JVR and Bozak and how do you fill these holes?

Leivo, Kapanen, Aaltonen, Sosh etc.

JVR had his best year last year and managed 62 points. Based on Leivo's career he would produce 52 points in the same number of minutes - but he produced a lot of that playing with 4th line linemates, and minimal PP time. If you look at Leivo's P/60 over the last two years they are higher than JVR's was last year. Leivo will also be lost to UFA this summer unless he plays 39 games this year - which is extremely unlikely - unless they trade to make room.

Toronto has several players who should be in the lineup, but there is no room. They have Brown who should not be on the 4th line. Several Leafs fans are thrilled about this hoarding of players, but it would be better to trade some players for assets that they can use in the future instead of having a glut now and empty cupboards down the road.

I agree with the idea of not trading away good players for future assets if you are contending, but would be a case of trading away players to make room for others who are ready.

Babcock just a couple months ago referred to the logjam that the Leafs have up front and when referring to JVR, Bozak, Komarov and Kadri - basically said that two of them have to go.

>>>

That gets the Leafs to 18 or 19 NHL-calibre forwards, when they really need only 13.
Babcock brought up Tyler Bozak, Nazem Kadri, James van Riemsdyk and Leo Komarov.

“They’re real good players,” the coach said. “And two of them or . . . any way you look at it, we can’t all be on the team as we move ahead. It doesn’t work like that. We have to figure out a way when you have opportunities to do what you can.”

<<<

 

[garyturner3]

This is going to be a story that is talked about more and more as the season goes along if the Leafs keep playing they way they have been. I believe the reason why they are hard to beat is the depth they have in their top 9. You remove JVR and Bozak and how do you fill these holes?

I agree completely. There's very few teams (if any) in the league that can match their depth right now which is why they rack up goals at will. But what is the consensus weakness they have? Defensive play. It's been beaten to death, but too often that defensive problem is simply blamed on the d-men when they're only part of the problem here. If JVR and Bozak are in fact as bad defensively as everyone's saying, then would they improve by replacing them with less offensive, more defensive minded players? Sure our overall scoring my take a hit, but we're more than deep enough to survive that and may end up better as a result.

Personally, I feel the only thing this team needs is top pairing d-man. Nothing else. Adding another middle pairing d-man is not going to make this team any better so I'd much rather just trade both JVR and Bozak for straight up picks than get another d-man that's just gonna fight for minutes on the bottom two pairs while not making us any better overall. At least the picks would have the potential to possibly become elite players at one point. I'm perfectly fine with subbing Leivo and Kapanen in for them because it's going to make us better defensively and probably not hurt as much offensively as people think. We have an answer for Bozak's spot at C already: it's Nylander. We've still got Sosh, Aaltonen, one of Fehr/Moore ready to fill in as depth players when injuries occur as well.

 

[blankall]

You can think all you want, but history would suggest otherwise. Proven 50+ point players with excellent faceoff skills aren't ever moved for that little of a return.

Let's be clear, that Tyler Bozak has had 50 or more points once in his career. Yes, he's been on pace for 50+ more times, but didn't actually reach that level due to injury. When assessing a player for a playoff run, their ability to stay healthy is key.

People throwing around the Hanzal trade, need to realize that Hanzal is 6'6'' , 230lbs, gritty, and can still put up some offense.

The playoffs are generally a grittier game, and teams stock up on big character guys like Hanzal. Hence, the demand for him would be very high. Comparing Bozak and Hanzal is ridiculous, as they have entirely different styles of play.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Anaheim should just go all in and grab em both ^.^
Jvr Getzlaf Eaves
Cogliano Kesler Silfverberg
Rakell Bozak Perry

the things dreams are made of

 

[garyturner3]

Let's be clear, that Tyler Bozak has had 50 or more points once in his career. Yes, he's been on pace for 50+ more times, but didn't actually reach that level due to injury. When assessing a player for a playoff run, their ability to stay healthy is key.

.

I love how the pace police always chime in an attempt to discredit Bozak and JVR. You can argue all day long on these pointless numbers, but you can be sure GM's consider Bozak a 50+ point player and JVR a 30 goal, 60 point player because that's clearly what they've consistently played like for years. They don't waste their time with these petty semantics. And let's be clear, Bozak has missed 0, 9, 2, 24, 0, 25, 4 games over his 7 full seasons in TO. That's exactly two stints on the IR of any significance. Anyone looking to trade for him is not worried about injuries in the least.

 

[GoodbyeLuongo]

Unless the Leafs are out of it at the deadline, there's no reason to deal either. Play the season out, and if you wanna bring them back try and re-sign them.

 

[Leafsmann]

Anaheim should just go all in and grab em both ^.^
Jvr Getzlaf Eaves
Cogliano Kesler Silfverberg
Rakell Bozak Perry

the things dreams are made of

for montour

 

[rent free]

none of 'em will get traded. the leafs will keep 'em for a playoff run

 

[CraigsList]

You need them for your playoff run (assuming you make the playoffs). This isn't NHL18.

 

[TOGuy14]

Let's be clear, that Tyler Bozak has had 50 or more points once in his career. Yes, he's been on pace for 50+ more times, but didn't actually reach that level due to injury. When assessing a player for a playoff run, their ability to stay healthy is key.

People throwing around the Hanzal trade, need to realize that Hanzal is 6'6'' , 230lbs, gritty, and can still put up some offense.

The playoffs are generally a grittier game, and teams stock up on big character guys like Hanzal. Hence, the demand for him would be very high. Comparing Bozak and Hanzal is ridiculous, as they have entirely different styles of play.

I know people look for every angle to argue a Leaf player's value downwards but lets all be reasonable and put this silly discussion to bed with a simple table:

Season	Games	G	A	PTS	PPG	P/82
2009-10	37	8	19	27	0.72	59.83
2010-11	82	15	17	32	0.39	32
2011-12	73	18	29	47	0.64	52.79
2012-13	46	12	16	28	0.60	49.91
2013-14	58	19	30	49	0.84	69.27
2014-15	82	23	26	49	0.59	49
2015-16	57	12	23	35	0.61	50.35
2016-17	78	18	37	55	0.70	57.82
2017-18	5	1	3	4	0.8	65.6
CAREER	518	126	200	326	0.62	51.60

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

for montour

Lol the point would be you guys out of contention, and were loading up for a cup run doubt Montour would be on table.... also you guys have lilgren, I'm guessing your interest would be in Larsson/petterson over Montour.

 

[nickdawg95]

Bozak is a reliable 50 point C who is top 5 in the league at faceoffs.

His value is probably a 1st, especially at the TDL.

Anyway, don't think the Leafs want to move either player, but especially both in a package deal. Takes away our greatest weapon - great offensive depth

he's only broke 50 points once lol

 

[Legion34]

Lol the point would be you guys out of contention, and were loading up for a cup run doubt Montour would be on table.... also you guys have lilgren, I'm guessing your interest would be in Larsson/petterson over Montour.

I would say JVR for Larson. We liked him in 2015 and bozie is needed for the run.

 

[blankall]

I know people look for every angle to argue a Leaf player's value downwards but lets all be reasonable and put this silly discussion to bed with a simple table:

Season	Games	G	A	PTS	PPG	P/82
2009-10	37	8	19	27	0.72	59.83
2010-11	82	15	17	32	0.39	32
2011-12	73	18	29	47	0.64	52.79
2012-13	46	12	16	28	0.60	49.91
2013-14	58	19	30	49	0.84	69.27
2014-15	82	23	26	49	0.59	49
2015-16	57	12	23	35	0.61	50.35
2016-17	78	18	37	55	0.70	57.82
2017-18	5	1	3	4	0.8	65.6
CAREER	518	126	200	326	0.62	51.60

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

There's a big difference between actually getting 50 points and being on pace for it.

Also, Bozak has the 3rd worst cumulative +/- among active players. +/- isn't a perfect stat, but it does show something.

Also, since when is being a 50 point player alone enough to get you a 1st rounder? Players who put up 50 points, but also have physical and 2-way game, get those kinds of return at the deadline.

 

[34]

Agree the Leafs will be one of the contending teams this year, No way Lou is dealing either JVR or Bozak as he will need both of them. Probably both walk away next summer as UFAs

This exactly.

JVR will be extended long term in Toronto anyway. It is where he wants to play... no way he wants to leave now!

I see Bozak being moved for a 1st.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Only

I think both would get a bit more then what you posted:

JVR - Late 1st & ok prospect

Bozak - 2nd & 4th/ok prospect

I agree no one is giving up a single high end piece for those two individuals or them as a package.

But Leafs should keep both for a playoff push.

team I could maybe see doing that is Nashville if they think they can go deep again. Retain 50% on both jvr & Bozak to Nashville for fabbro & 1st/2nd depends on if one or another resigns or how far Nashville goes in the Playoffs

 

[Nizdizzle]

There's a big difference between actually getting 50 points and being on pace for it.

Also, Bozak has the 3rd worst cumulative +/- among active players. +/- isn't a perfect stat, but it does show something.

Also, since when is being a 50 point player alone enough to get you a 1st rounder? Players who put up 50 points, but also have physical and 2-way game, get those kinds of return at the deadline.

Not interested in arguing pointless semantics. Bozak is clearly a 50pt player. If you need to lean on "well, he only got 49 points..." and "he was injured and never really got there that other season" it simply means you have a garbage argument. Take off they blinders, buddy.

 

[Nylanderthal]

This exactly.

JVR will be extended long term in Toronto anyway. It is where he wants to play... no way he wants to leave now!

I see Bozak being moved for a 1st.

I agree with this, I see Bozak going through FA or trade, and Nylander becoming the C on the "sheltered scoring line" along with Kapanen and a newly re-upped JVR. Who think re ups for 8y/36-42m (4.5-5.25) with it heavily front loaded so he gets his cash early, and we keep the best scoring depth in the league. I'm sure he can be moved towards year 5-7 If need be, depends on how you structure it.

 

[Jared Dunn]

Let's be clear, that Tyler Bozak has had 50 or more points once in his career. Yes, he's been on pace for 50+ more times, but didn't actually reach that level due to injury. When assessing a player for a playoff run, their ability to stay healthy is key.

People throwing around the Hanzal trade, need to realize that Hanzal is 6'6'' , 230lbs, gritty, and can still put up some offense.

The playoffs are generally a grittier game, and teams stock up on big character guys like Hanzal. Hence, the demand for him would be very high. Comparing Bozak and Hanzal is ridiculous, as they have entirely different styles of play.

Funny that you put these two sentences one after the other

 

[garyturner3]

There's a big difference between actually getting 50 points and being on pace for it.

Also, Bozak has the 3rd worst cumulative +/- among active players. +/- isn't a perfect stat, but it does show something.

Also, since when is being a 50 point player alone enough to get you a 1st rounder? Players who put up 50 points, but also have physical and 2-way game, get those kinds of return at the deadline.

No, physical players that put up 50+ points return much, much more than a 1st round pick. Nobody's saying Bozak is a physical player, but it's far from a stretch for players like him to return a 1st at the deadline. Vermette isn't a physical guy and he returned a 1st + a prospect while putting up inferior offensive numbers to Bozak. I'm not sure why you're arguing this; this is the standard market price and you have access to google to look up past trades just like everyone else to see for yourself. This isn't a situation of Leaf fans shooting for the moon in a potential return. Your attempt to diminish Bozak by dismissing pace doesn't change the fact Bozak is unquestionably a 50 point player and will be valued that way by GM's.

 

[blankall]

No, physical players that put up 50+ points return much, much more than a 1st round pick. Nobody's saying Bozak is a physical player, but it's far from a stretch for players like him to return a 1st at the deadline. Vermette isn't a physical guy and he returned a 1st + a prospect while putting up inferior offensive numbers to Bozak. I'm not sure why you're arguing this; this is the standard market price and you have access to google to look up past trades just like everyone else to see for yourself. This isn't a situation of Leaf fans shooting for the moon in a potential return. Your attempt to diminish Bozak by dismissing pace doesn't change the fact Bozak is unquestionably a 50 point player.

We're talking about rentals here.

 

[Seras]

Not moving either of them for futures.

 

[garyturner3]

We're talking about rentals here.

Vermette was a rental was he not? Same with Hanzal, same with Ladd. There's examples every year.