Turncoats in International Hockey

jekoh

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Jun 8, 2004
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But requirement (c) looks a problem.
To me it reads like he'd have to play 4 years in RSL first.
Actually, he did play 4 years in the RSL, but then he doesn't meet requirement (d).
 

TheMoreYouKnow

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May 3, 2007
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Den said:
From here on, it tells me that you never lived in the USSR.

Of course, personal anecdotes always trump general historical knowledge as we all know. Because you know the problems between Russians and ethnic Balts for example are totally imaginary. It's also a total myth that Russian culture was favored over non-Russian cultures in the Soviet Union. Riiiiight.
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
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The identity of Germany is generally traced back to the treaty of Verdun that split the Frankish realm into a Western, Central and Eastern part. The Western part pretty continuously developed into France and the Eastern part developed pretty continuously into Germany. This was around 900 AD if my memory does not betray me.

Isn't it "Les Serments de Strasbourg" (don't know what it actually is in english), 848 AD?
 

Mr Kanadensisk

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May 13, 2005
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The question is rather would anyone from Ã…land actually apply for a swedish citizenship? I've always had the feeling that they're quite proud of being what they are.

As in Ã…landers first and foremost and ethnicly swedish finnish citizens after that.

Yes, but if forced to choose between representing Finland or Sweden, I'm sure many would prefer the latter.
 

Canuck21t

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Feb 4, 2004
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Montreal, QC
I'm definitely no expert when it comes to Eastern European geography, but Kamenogorski, Kazachstan sounds like it's in Kazakhstan and not Russia. His family may be Russian, but that would make him a Kazakh, no? Canadians ought to hope that's how it works or Chris Simon may become the new poster boy for Canadian hockey.
In that case, why is Dany Heatley Canadian and not German?
 

Wisent

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Nov 15, 2003
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Well, usually being born in a country equates to being from that country, no? I was born in Canada, but my heritage is Ukrainian, but I consider myself more of a Canadian than a Ukrainian since I was born in Canada. It was posted that Nabokov is actually Russian, and since he was born in Kazakhstan I would assume he was Kazakh. I mean Joe Sakic's parents are from the former Republic of Yugoslavia, his parents just happened to be in Canada at the time. I don't expect to see him heading over to Belgrade for training camp anytime soon.

I would welcome Heatley on the German national team. ;)
 

hdw

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Jul 9, 2006
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Stockholm
Keep in mind that Kariya is only half Japanese; his mother is of Scottish descent.

And that both his father and mother was born in Canada, and possibly even one more generation back.

You can't just look at peoples names or looks, nor can you just look at where they where born.

A persons nationality is much more complex than that.

And when a person is born outside of his/her 'home land' you also need to look at the circumstances.

Take the difference between Alexander Steen and Paul Stastny.
Both born in NA because their fathers wanted to play in NHL.

But while Alexander got an automatic swedish citizenship, went back every summer and chose to play junior hockey in Sweden.

The Stastny's lost their citizenship from day one, and Peter was labeled traitor to Czechoslovakian hockey (by the authorities that is) and couldn't visit Czechoslovakia ever more (unless they managed to make a trip between the fall of the communists and the velvet revolution).

It doesn't look that wierd to me that Alex is playing for Sweden, while Paul is playing for USA.

And neither is a turncoat.
 

Wisent

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Isn't it "Les Serments de Strasbourg" (don't know what it actually is in english), 848 AD?

It was the treaty of Verdun in 843AD.
But in the " Serments de Strasbourg" (Oaths of Strasbourg in English) it is already seen that the country was split in regions with different cultures and customs (that might be surprise to historians but hardly to linguists). so the serments were oficially one of teh first written papers that gave us proof of these proto countries.
 

ziggo66

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Mar 1, 2006
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Franconia
Isn't it "Les Serments de Strasbourg" (don't know what it actually is in english), 848 AD?
No, the Frankish Empire was divided in the Treaty of Verdun in 843. Louis The German became king of East Francia, which soon was known as "regnun teutonicum" and would become The Holy Roman Empire (later THRE Of German Nation).
 

Mr Kanadensisk

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May 13, 2005
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I don't think so.
I think the great majority would chose Finland.

Ã…landers are more likely to speak English as a second language than Finnish. What makes a stronger bond, language and culture, or nationality?
 

hdw

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Jul 9, 2006
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Stockholm
Ã…landers are more likely to speak English as a second language than Finnish. What makes a stronger bond, language and culture, or nationality?

Every ålander that I've met roots for finland when forced to chose.

With regards to finland they are an autonomus region, with regards to sweden they're some quirky part of the eastern stockholm archipelago.

The language and culture is shared just as much with the swedish speaking finns as the swedish speaking swedes.

100 years ago it would have been different, but not now.
 

Mr Kanadensisk

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May 13, 2005
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Every ålander that I've met roots for finland when forced to chose.

With regards to finland they are an autonomus region, with regards to sweden they're some quirky part of the eastern stockholm archipelago.

The language and culture is shared just as much with the swedish speaking finns as the swedish speaking swedes.

100 years ago it would have been different, but not now.

Yeah, but lets face it, Swedish speakers on the Finish mainland for the most part will soon be a thing of the past.
Through tax breaks, etc. the people of åland benefit economically from their autonomous status in Finland. If they were to reunite with Sweden they would have no reason to be autonomous anymore, and would probably be hurt economically to some degree. But make no mistake they are much more Swedish than Finish.
 

hdw

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Jul 9, 2006
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Stockholm
Yeah, but lets face it, Swedish speakers on the Finish mainland for the most part will soon be a thing of the past.
Through tax breaks, etc. the people of åland benefit economically from their autonomous status in Finland. If they were to reunite with Sweden they would have no reason to be autonomous anymore, and would probably be hurt economically to some degree. But make no mistake they are much more Swedish than Finish.

Possible, but I don't think so.
But it's the wrong place to argue about it.
So let's leave it with having different opinions.
 

boredmale

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i think Dave Ellett was the ultimate turncoat. In lower level turnaments like the world cup he would play with Canada, and in tournaments like the Canada Cup he would play with the US. Dave had duel citizenship so could play for either team.
 

hdw

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Jul 9, 2006
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Stockholm
i think Dave Ellett was the ultimate turncoat. In lower level turnaments like the world cup he would play with Canada, and in tournaments like the Canada Cup he would play with the US. Dave had duel citizenship so could play for either team.

Dual citizenship is irrellevant.
It's about having played for earlier.
Wikipedia
In 1989 Ellett was the subject of controversy when he decided to play for Team Canada in the World Championships. Bob Johnson, coach of the American team, complained that Ellett had to play for the United States because of his birthplace and because he attended Team USA's training camp for the 1987 Canada Cup. But in actuality, Ellett was allowed to play for Team Canada because he never actually played for the USA internationally.

And if I understand it correctly, Canada/World Cup is an "IIHF sanctioned tournament", and then the IIHF bylaw 204 stands.

But as stated, he didn't actually play for USA internationally.
 

Zen Arcade

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Sep 21, 2004
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Well how about " I'm from USA", I think everybody knows what USA means. I know lot of people who calls them yankees (including my self). I'm not sure is that an offending word in english but in Finland saying "jenkki" its quite common.

Southern people refer to people from the North as yankees at times, because of the Civil War. So, such people wouldn't enjoy being called yankees.
 

Levizk

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Feb 12, 2007
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Well how about " I'm from USA", I think everybody knows what USA means. I know lot of people who calls them yankees (including my self). I'm not sure is that an offending word in english but in Finland saying "jenkki" its quite common.

Everybody knows what "I'm from America" means too so I fail to see the point. Perhaps you need to stop being over-sensitive to commonly used naming conventions.
 

hdw

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Jul 9, 2006
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Stockholm
Everybody knows what "I'm from America" means too so I fail to see the point. Perhaps you need to stop being over-sensitive to commonly used naming conventions.

Nah, it's just that most europeans love to tease americans about that.

Like pointing out that 'american football' is played with the ball in your hands :)

Live with it, everyone loves to tease the big dog on the block, it won't ever stop. Just lick it up and accept.
 

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