Discussion in 'International Tournaments' started by smileymcadam, Dec 6, 2004.
Here's the list. Let the debates begin.
Great list, can't wait till the games begin
Just noticed no Brule ... i'm not that surprised he didn't make the team as there is a great deal of experienced players coming back but he should be atleast invited IMO to give him experience for next years training camp (unless he's in the NHL).
Pretty good list, kinda suprised that Boyd is there over guys like Bernier, Brule or Picard. Also a little suprised at all 4 goalies being from out west. I thought Munce or Shantz would be there ahead of Dubnyk.
There is going to be one UNHAPPY province when the team is made...
Only question now is: Will it be worth it?
I am surprised that Boyd is there too.(Sutter draft pick for Calgary, Sutter coaching Team Canada)
I would think that Alexandre Picard would have been a better And Colin Fraser? Well, Sutter knows him since he is a Red Deer Rebel. Maybe he sees something that I don't.
But it is a good position to be in when some of the guys you don't take could be first liners in other countries.
Honestly, why don't we just send the WHL All Star team and see how it goes? It'll save the handful of OHL and QMJHL teams the hassle of losing their players for a week of fruitless (see: no gold) hockey.
Canada probably won't win with this team. I don't think we'll ever learn that we can't play our style in international play and keep powerplay goals from being scored. My guess is that we'll be the most penalized team in the tournament and will have another middle of the pack PK to go along with it.
I love the WHL style above all in the CHL. It won't win gold in an international tournament.
Personally I think it's a joke that Steve Bernier or Alexandre Picard didn't get an invite, and I'm not one who usually defends the Q, so it's not like I'm some angry Q fan or anything.
Bernier, to me, was the most impressive player of the entire Canada/Russia challenge, not to mention he's had a great year.
Colin Fraser making this list is a joke, he can't skate, he isn't going to help on a scoring line and I can think of 10 guys off the top of my head right now I'd rather have at that camp over him.
Bernier being left off and Fraser is my only serious beef, but it's a huge beef.
To me, it looks like some people's concern with Sutter coaching the team might be true. With this roster of invited players, it appears we are going to try and grind the other teams at the WJC into submission, rather then try and outscore them.
While the list is more or less as I expected it to be, although Boyd over Bernier is a joke up front, the four goalies being from the WHL is quite surprising to me. As much as I like Jeff Glass a Senators prospect, I would rather Shantz over him without a doubt.
That pretty much sums up my thoughts.
Go Upper Canada Go!
Sorry but isn't this just a "guess" list by TSN....the real list hasn't been released yet has it??
I can't say I agree with anything you said.(Edit: except that I could have easily found more OHL and QMJHL players to go....) Let's see your 32.
I would tend to agree with most of the above beefs... particularly in the partisan selection of Fraser, who I thought was one of the weakest players in the Can/Russia Challenge.
Boyd at least showed a lot in his one game, and if that is indicative of the level he normally plays at, then he's looking like a good bet for an energy line role next year, which this invitation prepares him for.
As for the goalies, I'm not a big fan of either Dubnyk or Nastiuk, but you certainly can't argue the draft position of the one or the numbers of the other. I would have like to see David Shantz there too, but again, goaltending should be basically an afterthought for this team, and any of the options are as good as any of the others heading in, IMO.
True, so I'll tweak my opinions in that this appears to be the list that Sutter will release. If the TSN list is wrong, I owe Sutter an apology. If it's right, then I'll tighten my stance that it has some critical errors.
There are a lot of bitter Easterners here and I don't understand it. Hockey Canada selects the best players it can for this tournament and it just so happens this year the western part of the country is stacked with tremendous talent. It's not a knock against the other leagues, it's just an abnormality.
And how many checkers and grinders do you see on that list? It's made up mostly of high end forwars with high end skill. To say the team won't win because of the western style is a much too simple statement to make. It's going to be a powerhouse team and I'm confident they'll win gold.
According to this list, then, the camp competitions perhaps break down as (with locks in bold, and near-locks in italic/bold):
Nastiuk vs. Beauchemin
Glass vs. Dubnyk
In any normal year, I would like Quincey and Picard, but I can't see them making it. Ditto MacArthur. I would like to say ditto Fraser, but if he's really Sutter's guy, who knows. To me, those are the invites that are first on the bubble. I would take Alex Picard (F version) and Steve Bernier in the camp before some of those guys too. Stone is the guy who is growing on me the most right now. And I have Bolland and Boyd down for my pet competition as the guys to holdover in the spare spot for next year's tourney.
I'm not bitter about how many QMJHL guys were chosen. That sort of thing is almost a given with these teams. We know that we'll be represented by one or two goaltenders, a defenseman and a few forwards. That's just the way it is. No problems.
But when you see a team made up just like last year, you think to yourself that they'll have the same troubles all over. It's going to happen. This team will take penalties that would not be called here and it's going to frustrate them. I guarantee it.
It's because there are simply better hockey players out there and if you try to deny that, you truly are blind. I'm going to admit, I follow the OHL the most, but my arguments aren't even for the OHL, I'm happy with every OHL player invited, I wouldnt have added anyone else (except maybe Shantz in goal). I'm arguing as a subjective fan of the CHL and Canadian hockey in general.
Steve Bernier, Alexandre Picard, Travis Zajac are better hockey players than guys like Colin Fraser, or Dustin Boyd. NHL scouts certainly agree because otherwise those players wouldn't have been first rounders.
I don't want our fourth line to be a physical, mostly checking line. I want three scoring lines and the one defensive line. Guys like Boyd, Fraser, or hell even David Bolland, while they are solid offensively, are not guys who are going to create loads of offense by themselves, nor are they known as offensive dynamo's. My main beef with the list is the number of checkers, rather then pure scorers, signifying the fact that Sutter seems to intend to play a seriously defensive style, with so many two-way threats, rather then pure goal scorers.
The official selection camp roster hasn't been released yet. It is expected at some point this morning, but the official WJC Team Canada website shows nothing yet.
Edit: the official list is now up on the site
I wasn't too happy with last year's team, and I'm not thrilled with this camp roster. But they steamrolled through the tournament last year, before finally losing on a freak goal.
Last year's team showed me not to worry until I have to.
I'm incredibly frustrated by the lack of Steve Bernier being named to this camp. He is a much better player than 3-4 of the forwards who were awarded spots.
I think it's tempting, but a bit facile to make this argument in terms of East vs. West. Yes, the West definitely is the best league right now, with the best talent. And it shows in terms of the assumed incumbents for Team Canada. But I think Easterners would have a valid beef when looking at some of the other invites.
For example, you can't tell me that those goalies are unarguably the best four in Canada. There is nothing really to separate the pack that we as outside observers could point to. Hence, it is fair to wonder why all four are from the West.
Up front, I don't buy that Ladd is much better or different than Bernier, or that you couldn't choose Alex Picard before/in the same breath as Fehr or MacArthur, etc. And I would submit that there are Colin Fraser types scattered throughout all the leagues, it's just that this one is the one who happens to be in the Sutter's own backyard. Guys who aren't even worthy of consideration for the team (just picking, say Max Lapierre's name out of my own familiar backyard hat) compare favourably, and there are tons of others.
It cuts a little bit both ways, of course, in that I'm not convinced that Dixon is a truly the best player for the team either, if indeed they give him a pass on veteran status. But that's one rather isolated counter-example in a sea of pro-West bias.
At the end of the day, however, I'm not personally the least bit bothered, because I agree that this team will be very strong regardless of how they fill out those few remaining open spots. And I can also sympathise entirely with the coaching staff wanting to pick the guys they are most familiar with from their own personal experiences. I'd probably do the same thing. So I'm not saying it's wrong that there's a Western bias, but I wouldn't go around denying it either.
Yup, completely agree. The Steve Bernier of this year deserves a spot on this team without a doubt. He's twice the player Fraser or Boyd is, among others.
Is anyone really surprised by the list of players? Haven't we been hearing for weeks that Sutter is doing this his way, and that a lot of WHLers were going to be on this list, and only 3 Quebec-born players were expected in the final team. Of course people will be disappointed with one or two names left out each time, but usually we hold off on the bashing until after the tournament.
Of course, if there is no gold, it will be a lot of "I told you so's".
It's great that we're all coaches and judges of talent, but sometimes the "pros" do get it right.
I guess TSN is pretty sure this is the list.
I'm guessing that Crosby and Dixon shouldn't really be counted as "Quebec-born".