TSN 690 & Other Montreal sports media Thread V

[Runner77]

Here's the third round of the Gallo vs. Rockman fight: https://www.pscp.tv/w/1DXxyEnAdDexM

Includes the announcement of the decision ...

 

[Chili]

Here's the third round of the Gallo vs. Rockman fight: https://www.pscp.tv/w/1DXxyEnAdDexM

Includes the announcement of the decision ...

Passionate pugnacious pillow pugilist prevails!

 

[CHaracter79]

Do you actually have evidence of that? Not saying your wrong, but for your example, there is plenty of statistical evidence to suggest Subban is among the best defensemen in the NHL. Many people well versed in accruing and interpreting the latest tracking data and building stats rank him 2-5 in the NHL among D-men.

I all for analytics... but when theyblind you to the point where you name the games 20 best dmen.... and dont include Shea weber.. is one thing.. but not including shea weber and havign players like

Byfuglien,Niskanen, Kilgnberg,Barrie and Brian Fin Campbell... i tune out immediately.. if he actually published something like this.. then i dont care to listen or even hear the explanation.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/ranking-top-20-defencemen-nhl-numbers/

 

[Captain Mountain]

I all for analytics... but when theyblind you to the point where you name the games 20 best dmen.... and dont include Shea weber.. is one thing.. but not including shea weber and havign players like

Byfuglien,Niskanen, Kilgnberg,Barrie and Brian Fin Campbell... i tune out immediately.. if he actually published something like this.. then i dont care to listen or even hear the explanation.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/ranking-top-20-defencemen-nhl-numbers/

Those are all or were fantastic defensemen. Niskanen, Buff and Klingberg are still amazing defencemen.

And your point is basically, I'm focusing on the arbitrary lost of top 20 D (seriously, there is nothing there showing the difference between 10 and 50) and disagree based on my personal opinion, so I don't care about the methodology and don't want to hear an explanation.

Think of applying that logic to more meaningful debates in life.

 

[CHaracter79]

Those are all or were fantastic defensemen. Niskanen, Buff and Klingberg are still amazing defencemen.

And your point is basically, I'm focusing on the arbitrary lost of top 20 D (seriously, there is nothing there showing the difference between 10 and 50) and disagree based on my personal opinion, so I don't care about the methodology and don't want to hear an explanation.

Think of applying that logic to more meaningful debates in life.

NO, my point is when you want to sound smart or make a point.. you can crunch numbers up until you find the right combination to make it so.

regardless of my opinions, if anyone in their right mind... would remove Shea Weber, and replace him with any of half of the d men on his list.. its speaks volumes. He clearly has an agenda and it sucks that he is a habs fan.

and in what world is Niskanen an amazing Defenceman? Brian Campbell? Jake Muzzin? Tyson Barrie? Kilngberg? Shattenkirk? im sure you call their respective teams up and offer them Weber one for one.... they do it in a hearbeat

 

[Runner77]

Passionate pugnacious pillow pugilist prevails!

Gotta give it to him. He can sleep better on his MyPillow now.

 

[Chili]

Gotta give it to him. He can sleep better on his MyPillow now.

Heard him on air say he was glad it was over so he could back to being friends with Jason Rockman because he`s a good guy.

Sounds like it`s all good,

 

[Runner77]

Heard him on air say he was glad it was over so he could back to being friends with Jason Rockman because he`s a good guy.

Sounds like it`s all good,

Glad it went well for both pugilists. And, as was mentioned in this thread, it was all for a good cause, can't argue with that.

 

[Captain Mountain]

NO, my point is when you want to sound smart or make a point.. you can crunch numbers up until you find the right combination to make it so.

regardless of my opinions, if anyone in their right mind... would remove Shea Weber, and replace him with any of half of the d men on his list.. its speaks volumes. He clearly has an agenda and it sucks that he is a habs fan.

and in what world is Niskanen an amazing Defenceman? Brian Campbell? Jake Muzzin? Tyson Barrie? Kilngberg? Shattenkirk? im sure you call their respective teams up and offer them Weber one for one.... they do it in a hearbeat

1) Not really a Habs fan anymore, he covers the league;
2) This is an article rating years 13-14, 14-15 and 15-16;
3) Niskanen is an incredible defenceman. Try watching Washington games. Ditto with Klingberg and Muzzin.
4) Then attack the methodology. Its not like its that hard to do, he switched it up the next year.

There is no reason to think that there is an agenda just because the findings are contrary to your views.

 

[CHaracter79]

i didnt say they are horrible dmen. all i said is that basing it solely on numbers is crazy. analytics really can help but they can also be used other ways too.

i find it hard to believe that if he is judging 13-14 14-15 and 15-16 he couldnt place a dman that finished 3rd 4rth and 9th respectively in norris trophy voting.

especially when we are talking top 20. all these excercises can be used to prove any point as long as you choose the right situational data.

I have watched my fair share of games given my line of work. i dont need you to assume i havent... epsecially because i disagree with your opinion. which is what you are commenting on my view in the first place.

Based on this article... tradign PK for Muzzin KLingberg or Niskanen would have been a better trade at the time then for Weber. Given their place in the leagues elite D men.

and what does Not really a habs fan any more mean?

How can you leanr to unlove a club you supported your whole life?

Its alright to disagree with decisions. hell i think MB has done a piss poor job running the team. and i love weber but i probably wouldnt have made that trade.. but to stop cheering for a team.. because of management..

It hurts when you lose and it gives you tears when they win.

and the media in this city lacks that love. At least in TO they love their team.

ungrateful peaches they are in this city. but theyll be first on the bandwagon when things go great again.

 

[Captain Mountain]

i didnt say they are horrible dmen. all i said is that basing it solely on numbers is crazy. analytics really can help but they can also be used other ways too.

The article very clearly says its ranking the D-men, by the numbers. That's the whole point.

i find it hard to believe that if he is judging 13-14 14-15 and 15-16 he couldnt place a dman that finished 3rd 4rth and 9th respectively in norris trophy voting.

Norris voting is opinion driven, not number driven.

especially when we are talking top 20. all these excercises can be used to prove any point as long as you choose the right situational data.

So attack the methodology, not the author.

I have watched my fair share of games given my line of work. i dont need you to assume i havent... epsecially because i disagree with your opinion. which is what you are commenting on my view in the first place.

I don't disagree that Weber is better than a bunch of those guys, I disagree that immediately tuning someone out, not caring to listen or even hear the explanation of a statistical analysis based on disagreeing with the outcome is a reasonable response.

Based on this article... tradign PK for Muzzin KLingberg or Niskanen would have been a better trade at the time then for Weber. Given their place in the leagues elite D men.

That article didn't draw that conclusion, you did.

and what does Not really a habs fan any more mean?

How can you leanr to unlove a club you supported your whole life?

Its alright to disagree with decisions. hell i think MB has done a piss poor job running the team. and i love weber but i probably wouldnt have made that trade.. but to stop cheering for a team.. because of management..

It hurts when you lose and it gives you tears when they win.

and the media in this city lacks that love. At least in TO they love their team.

ungrateful peaches they are in this city. but theyll be first on the bandwagon when things go great again.

The same way Bobby Mac, Elliotte Friedman, Marc Denis, Dimitri Filipovic, Pierre Lebrun, Dom Luszczyszyn, etc. did. Its a job, not a fandom. And biases in national sports media are a bad thing. Jerkshire covers the league nationally for Sportsnet and Sporting News.

 

[Mrb1p]

1) Not really a Habs fan anymore, he covers the league;
2) This is an article rating years 13-14, 14-15 and 15-16;
3) Niskanen is an incredible defenceman. Try watching Washington games. Ditto with Klingberg and Muzzin.
4) Then attack the methodology. Its not like its that hard to do, he switched it up the next year.

There is no reason to think that there is an agenda just because the findings are contrary to your views.

LOL

Berkshire is a joke and always will be.

 

[Belial]

Was Jean-Charles Lajoie always such a Habs hater? Geez...

 

[Runner77]

Was Jean-Charles Lajoie always such a Habs hater? Geez...

He loves Therrien, though. Who knows.

Lajoie is kind of a clown-savant, you can't really take him too seriously.

 

[Brainiac]

He loves Therrien, though. Who knows.

Lajoie is kind of a clown-savant, you can't really take him too seriously.

I get the clown part, but I must have missed on the 'savant' part. :p

Joking aside, his show is not that bad. He got better through the years. Just don't take everything too seriously and the show can be enjoyable at times.

 

[Belial]

He loves Therrien, though. Who knows.

Lajoie is kind of a clown-savant, you can't really take him too seriously.

Only Therrien? He loves everything Quebecois... He's pushing it to the extreme.

He was praising Girard the other day like he was Bobby Orr compared to Mete... Biased af.

 

[Runner77]

Only Therrien? He loves everything Quebecois... He's pushing it to the extreme.

He was praising Girard the other day like he was Bobby Orr compared to Mete... Biased af.

That's true. He's got that Mario Langlois default switch. He's a nationalist demagogue to the bone, which is his prerogative -- but there isn't a week that goes by where he doesn't throw it in your face. If he likes linguistic politics so much, there are better avenues than just using your sports show where you'd hope, you could catch a sports conversation without constantly being reminded of his political slant.

 

[CHaracter79]

The article very clearly says its ranking the D-men, by the numbers. That's the whole point.



Norris voting is opinion driven, not number driven.



So attack the methodology, not the author.



I don't disagree that Weber is better than a bunch of those guys, I disagree that immediately tuning someone out, not caring to listen or even hear the explanation of a statistical analysis based on disagreeing with the outcome is a reasonable response.



That article didn't draw that conclusion, you did.



The same way Bobby Mac, Elliotte Friedman, Marc Denis, Dimitri Filipovic, Pierre Lebrun, Dom Luszczyszyn, etc. did. Its a job, not a fandom. And biases in national sports media are a bad thing. Jerkshire covers the league nationally for Sportsnet and Sporting News.

berkshire was a hf board member first then started working for Sportsnet and rds. and my WHOLE argument is that NUMBERS are great but can lead to dumb ideologies like.. weber isnt a top 20 DMAN by the NUMBERS but these guys are....

 

[Captain Mountain]

berkshire was a hf board member first then started working for Sportsnet and rds. and my WHOLE argument is that NUMBERS are great but can lead to dumb ideologies like.. weber isnt a top 20 DMAN by the NUMBERS but these guys are....

So your argument is that a "by the numbers" article is wrong because you don't like the conclusions it draws?

YOU CAN CHALLENGE THE FINDINGS OF THE ARTICLE THROUGH NUMBERS TOO.

You don't need to attack the author or dismiss the entire article to disbute the findings.

 

[Brainiac]

Only Therrien? He loves everything Quebecois... He's pushing it to the extreme.

He was praising Girard the other day like he was Bobby Orr compared to Mete... Biased af.

Sure thing, I agree JC Lajoie is biased af towards 'les p'tits gars de chez nous'. However, I'd like to add:

-He was very critical of Desharnais (and also Therrien) at times. Biased, but not blind either. IIRC, he was on that panel with Marinaro when RDS felt they had to criticize the Habs during their epic collapse, but no one there had the balls to do it.

-Speaking of which: on the overall, RDS is waaaaay worse than a guy like JC Lajoie. RDS is basically the Habs' communication department. Can't be more biased.

 

[Runner77]

Italy won't be going at the World Cup. The World Cup definitely became more interesting.

Didn't stop Marinaro from crying about what was coming, this morning. He even had an Italian pundit on, who had a major rant about the Italian coach that made the rounds on social media.

Another soccer disappointment for Marinaro -- maybe he'll make hockey a priority again. Together with the free food that listeners keep sending to him, during his show.

 

[DXStriker]

Didn't stop Marinaro from crying about what was coming, this morning. He even had an Italian pundit on, who had a major rant about the Italian coach that made the rounds on social media.

Another soccer disappointment for Marinaro -- maybe he'll make hockey a priority again. Together with the free food that listeners keep sending to him, during his show.

He will probably spend a lot of time on it today. I know Soccer is popular but i never seen anyone push it down everyones throat as much as he does

 

[MtlBoxFan]

Gallo and Campbell are the worst offenders in my view. Both of them started out as assistants and push-button guys in the production room and somehow, Melnick took a liking to them and had them progressively appear on his show, if I'm not mistaken. I can't figure out what he sees in them.

You just described Marinaro too. In fact, I don't think he was even working the sound board when he started.

 

[MtlBoxFan]

I'm glad you heard that segment. I literally cringed. Gallo was just doing what he always does, trying to make himself look better than he is.

You correctly point out that him and Campbell are scathing, they don't respect their audience, have no patience or time for any views that go against their own. This is not what hosts are supposed to do. They have it all wrong -- it's not about them trying to prevail at all costs, on all callers.

Just let the callers speak. It's OK if they don't like the way the Habs are run or if they hate how the Habs played in any particular game. These fans have no vested interest, unlike Gallo and Campbell whose station has the Habs's broadcast rights. Gallo and Campbell are not the gatekeepers of the Habs's brand, but you wouldn't know it listening to the rank amateurs that they are.

Thank God no one is giving Gallo the codes to a nuclear arsenal. The guy's finger would be on the buttons, pronto. He's so damn pretentious, it's like he has knowledge from a supreme authority as to when a caller is no longer viable and "that's it, at that point, I knew I had to get rid of him." Too bad the station doesn't know that they should have gotten rid of Gallo a long time ago.

As long as they keep calling, he wont be criticized for how he handles callers. You guys strike me as young because the "legendary" Ted Tevan was absolutely brutal to people to call in. Ted Blackman was even worse...but listening to them manhandle callers was very entertaining.
People call in thinking that suddenly, they were going to have their platform to host their own show. They are lucky if they can finish their thought. The host controls the airwaves and cuts you off whenever they like. It's the same thing on other call in shows...especially those right wing American ones.

Also, admit it, most of the callers are ridiculous...."allo...je...crois que

He will probably spend a lot of time on it today. I know Soccer is popular but i never seen anyone push it down everyones throat as much as he does

I think he considers himself head of PR for the Montreal impact. He puts it on himself to make soccer grow in this city and trust me, he will take credit for it later.

 

[Runner77]

He will probably spend a lot of time on it today. I know Soccer is popular but i never seen anyone push it down everyones throat as much as he does

He did his dejected bit to open the show on the day following the Italian soccer team loss.

And of course, he had some payback this morning for those who took him to task over his soccer excesses -- about how he was going to talk hockey over the rest of the show now and how there would be no Italian team soccer to cover over the next 4 years. Yeah, right.

You just described Marinaro too. In fact, I don't think he was even working the sound board when he started.

Marinaro came from CFMB where he had an evening sports show. He probably paid for his own air time to gain experience. I don't remember him working the board.