Sportsnet: Treliving: It will cost a really good young player to get a 1st rounder

super6646

Registered User
Apr 16, 2018
17,765
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Calgary
Trade Stone for a 2nd or 3rd and 5th or something like that. He gives us picks, and he's replaceable in our system.
 

HugginThePost

Flames Suck
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Dec 28, 2006
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Back to the Sweat Box
Just what it states, he’s either not playing or he’s 2nd or third line and it was reference another post, maybe scroll through and get the entire story first

So you managed to watch the two flames games in the last two years he wasn’t playing?

Got it. Makes perfect sense. Thanks for clearing things up.

Oooooorrrrrr.......you actually don’t watch him.

Occums Razor seems fitting in this case.
 

Volica

Papa Shango
May 15, 2012
21,391
11,074
That's exactly what they'll do. There's absolutely no reason to keep Rasmus Andersson in Stockton any longer.

Completely agreed.
Stone is a very valid trade option. A team needing a RHD; here's your guy. Can play the 4-6D position pretty easily. PK1 if needed. PP if you need a clapper.
 

Shanejones

Registered User
Jun 12, 2018
191
31
Eastern passage
So you managed to watch the two flames games in the last two years he wasn’t playing?

Got it. Makes perfect sense. Thanks for clearing things up.

Oooooorrrrrr.......you actually don’t watch him.

Occums Razor seems fitting in this case.
First of all, he has missed more then two games in two years and I said he’s EITHER not playing or is on 2nd or 3rd line. You just keep cherry picking what points you want bitch about, pick up your purse and move along
 

HugginThePost

Flames Suck
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Dec 28, 2006
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First of all, he has missed more then two games in two years and I said he’s EITHER not playing or is on 2nd or 3rd line. You just keep cherry picking what points you want ***** about, pick up your purse and move along

He has missed two games in the last two seasons.

That’s not cherry picking.....that’s facts.

Leave out the first part of your statement, and all is good. It’s the first part that is false. Just made up shit.

Edit: Shit I lied!! He’s missed 1 game. My bad.
 
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Shanejones

Registered User
Jun 12, 2018
191
31
Eastern passage
He has missed two games in the last two seasons.

That’s not cherry picking.....that’s facts.

Leave out the first part of your statement, and all is good. It’s the first part that is false. Just made up ****.

Edit: **** I lied!! He’s missed 1 game. My bad.
You are in fact correct in how many games he has missed in the last two years, I stand corrected on that part, my bad
 

Lunatik

Normal is an illusion.
Oct 12, 2012
56,185
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Padded Room
Agreed. I'd love to see Tkachuk traded for a 1st but it would never(and shouldn't) happen anytime in the near future. Bennett and Jankowski I guess we'll have to agree to disagree
How can you doubt there would be any GMs that would be willing to give up a 1st for Bennett, when your own GM gave up the 16th and 33rd overall picks for Griffin Reinhart.
 

Lunatik

Normal is an illusion.
Oct 12, 2012
56,185
8,337
Padded Room
First of all, he has missed more then two games in two years and I said he’s EITHER not playing or is on 2nd or 3rd line. You just keep cherry picking what points you want ***** about, pick up your purse and move along
Bennett has been on the 3rd line most of the last 2 years, every knows that.
 

blankall

Registered User
Jul 4, 2007
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Klatt (Isles scout), has said this draft is deep into the 2nd round, so I will disagree that this draft is not deep.

Random representatives of teams will always say that a draft is deep prior to a situation when potential trades are going to be made. The NYI have 4 picks in the first 2 rounds. Of course they will try to pump them up.

Most scouts are in agreement that there is a significant drop off in talent after 9. I see all sorts of rumblings of teams looking to trade 1st round picks for multiple 2nds. That's usually a pretty good sign that there's nothing special about the mid to late 1st round.

At the end of the day the NYI got a 12th overall, which was expected to be closer to the 20th overall. They got a good deal. However, it's hardly some major blunder by a GM. Hamonic looks likes a solid top 4, who will contribute to the Flames for years to come. Whenever you trade picks, the unpredictability of the situation is going to lead to situations where a team will get a bargain. The Flames won big on the Hamilton trade, which was very similar. You don't win them all.
 

CodeE

step on snek
Dec 20, 2007
9,938
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Los Angeles, CA
Random representatives of teams will always say that a draft is deep prior to a situation when potential trades are going to be made. The NYI have 4 picks in the first 2 rounds. Of course they will try to pump them up.

Most scouts are in agreement that there is a significant drop off in talent after 9. I see all sorts of rumblings of teams looking to trade 1st round picks for multiple 2nds. That's usually a pretty good sign that there's nothing special about the mid to late 1st round.

At the end of the day the NYI got a 12th overall, which was expected to be closer to the 20th overall. They got a good deal. However, it's hardly some major blunder by a GM. Hamonic looks likes a solid top 4, who will contribute to the Flames for years to come. Whenever you trade picks, the unpredictability of the situation is going to lead to situations where a team will get a bargain. The Flames won big on the Hamilton trade, which was very similar. You don't win them all.

Do you have a source for this? I've seen teams try to claim this draft is only 9-10 players deep to try and, as you've said, pump up the value of their own picks compared to ours. To justify why the Islanders need to package 11th + 12th together to get 7th or 8th overall.

McKenzie's list was released today and had Adam Boqvist at #10, when he's been considered one of the "top guys" this entire time. Is he considered the player after the "significant drop off in talent", or is it Tkachuk, Kotkaniemi, Wahlstrom, Dobson, Bouchard, or Hughes?

Either way, I'll take my chances on this mythical "significant drop off in talent" that just so happens to coincide with when the Islanders pick. It only seems to serve fans trying to devalue our 1st rounders so we're more willing to trade them for LWers or backup goaltenders.
 

LamorielloAndSon

Registered User
May 28, 2018
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Klatt (Isles scout), has said this draft is deep into the 2nd round, so I will disagree that this draft is not deep.
I thought it was common knowledge that this draft was very deep, I'm sure the flames and blue regret their trades and every other traded first round pick I think is like 23 or later
 

blankall

Registered User
Jul 4, 2007
14,935
5,263
Do you have a source for this? I've seen teams try to claim this draft is only 9-10 players deep to try and, as you've said, pump up the value of their own picks compared to ours. To justify why the Islanders need to package 11th + 12th together to get 7th or 8th overall.

McKenzie's list was released today and had Adam Boqvist at #10, when he's been considered one of the "top guys" this entire time. Is he considered the player after the "significant drop off in talent", or is it Tkachuk, Kotkaniemi, Wahlstrom, Dobson, Bouchard, or Hughes?

Either way, I'll take my chances on this mythical "significant drop off in talent" that just so happens to coincide with when the Islanders pick. It only seems to serve fans trying to devalue our 1st rounders so we're more willing to trade them for LWers or backup goaltenders.
Devil's considering trading down from 17:

Devils open to trading down at 2018 Draft

Analysis on why Colorado should trade down from 16:

2018 NHL Draft: An argument for the Colorado Avalanche to trade down in the first round

"With this year’s draft class, the 16th pick is really in no-man’s land. It’s right in the middle of a cluster of third-tier prospects. As a result, there is a very good chance that the Avs could target a player that would still be available in the mid-20s."

It's not some personal knock against the Isle, but this year is hardly some ultra deep year. It seems as though the #1 is potentially a franchise D-man. You've got solid depth going into the top 9 or so, and then it's a free for all with no real top end talent.

Once again, the Flames had to trade a 1st for Hamonic. That was the asking price, and there were many other teams asking. If they'd somehow managed to convince the Isles to take their 2019 pick, it wouldn't have made some franchise changing difference. Picks in the top round are always descent. There's nothing this year around 12 that is mind blowing though. Odds are you end up with worst than a solid 2nd pairing defender, which is what Hamonic is.
 

CodeE

step on snek
Dec 20, 2007
9,938
4,996
Los Angeles, CA
Devil's considering trading down from 17:

Devils open to trading down at 2018 Draft

Analysis on why Colorado should trade down from 16:

2018 NHL Draft: An argument for the Colorado Avalanche to trade down in the first round

"With this year’s draft class, the 16th pick is really in no-man’s land. It’s right in the middle of a cluster of third-tier prospects. As a result, there is a very good chance that the Avs could target a player that would still be available in the mid-20s."

It's not some personal knock against the Isle, but this year is hardly some ultra deep year. It seems as though the #1 is potentially a franchise D-man. You've got solid depth going into the top 9 or so, and then it's a free for all with no real top end talent.

Once again, the Flames had to trade a 1st for Hamonic. That was the asking price, and there were many other teams asking. If they'd somehow managed to convince the Isles to take their 2019 pick, it wouldn't have made some franchise changing difference. Picks in the top round are always descent. There's nothing this year around 12 that is mind blowing though. Odds are you end up with worst than a solid 2nd pairing defender, which is what Hamonic is.

But you're using articles about 16th and 17th overall to argue that there's a dropoff at 9th, and 11th and 12th don't have much value because they're after the dropoff?

Read McKenzie's draft rankings which were released today:

https://www.tsn.ca/kc-1.1115400

What’s interesting about the players ranked six through 10 is that every one of them got consideration as a potential top-five pick. For much of the year, when it was Dahlin and the three wingers (Svechnikov, Zadina and Tkachuk), there appeared to be only one top five slot available. But things have blown a lot more wide open.

As mentioned, four scouts have Dobson in their top five. Hughes is as high as No. 3 on one list, as low as 11 on another. Ditto for Boqvist, whose range was from five to 14.

And it doesn’t end with the top 10.

Centre Barrett Hayton of the Soo Greyhounds, at No. 11, and Russian winger Vitali Kravtsov, at No. 12, were the only other players to get a vote in the top five.

If a top-10 team is looking for a centre, and Kotkaniemi is gone, Hayton could easily crash the top 10.

This draft was always going to be wildly unpredictable outside of the top 10 but what has become evident is how much potential variance there is from what we thought we knew earlier in the season.

McKenzie is, in my opinion, the #1 hockey insider guy working in the sport. He's now saying, in an article literally published today, that scout boards are wildly inconsistent with each other, with some having Hayton and Kratsov in their top 5 while others have Hughes & Boqvist outside the top 10.

In this case it seems you, a Flames fan, are operating with the mindset of wanting to convince yourself that there is this mythical dropoff after 9, where all the "good" players will be gone by the time Edmonton hits the podium. Experts are arguing that isn't the case, and articles about the 17th or 18th overall selections are pretty weak compared to Bob McKenzie reporting "how much potential variance" there is in how teams are valuable the top 13-14 players once Dahlin & Svech are taken.

Hamonic is great defenseman on a great contract. There's no reason for any sour grapes no matter who falls to 12th overall.
 

blankall

Registered User
Jul 4, 2007
14,935
5,263
But you're using articles about 16th and 17th overall to argue that there's a dropoff at 9th, and 11th and 12th don't have much value because they're after the dropoff?

Read McKenzie's draft rankings which were released today:

https://www.tsn.ca/kc-1.1115400



McKenzie is, in my opinion, the #1 hockey insider guy working in the sport. He's now saying, in an article literally published today, that scout boards are wildly inconsistent with each other, with some having Hayton and Kratsov in their top 5 while others have Hughes & Boqvist outside the top 10.

In this case it seems you, a Flames fan, are operating with the mindset of wanting to convince yourself that there is this mythical dropoff after 9, where all the "good" players will be gone by the time Edmonton hits the podium. Experts are arguing that isn't the case, and articles about the 17th or 18th overall selections are pretty weak compared to Bob McKenzie reporting "how much potential variance" there is in how teams are valuable the top 13-14 players once Dahlin & Svech are taken.

Hamonic is great defenseman on a great contract. There's no reason for any sour grapes no matter who falls to 12th overall.

I'm wondering which prospect at #12 is available that's so much better than a mid-first round from a typical year? I was responding to a poster stating the Flames had made some huge mistake by trading this year's 1st overall, instead of the option for the 2019.
 

CREW99AW

Registered User
Mar 12, 2002
40,928
3,389
Random representatives of teams will always say that a draft is deep prior to a situation when potential trades are going to be made. The NYI have 4 picks in the first 2 rounds. Of course they will try to pump them up.

Most scouts are in agreement that there is a significant drop off in talent after 9. I see all sorts of rumblings of teams looking to trade 1st round picks for multiple 2nds. That's usually a pretty good sign that there's nothing special about the mid to late 1st round.

At the end of the day the NYI got a 12th overall, which was expected to be closer to the 20th overall. They got a good deal. However, it's hardly some major blunder by a GM. Hamonic looks likes a solid top 4, who will contribute to the Flames for years to come. Whenever you trade picks, the unpredictability of the situation is going to lead to situations where a team will get a bargain. The Flames won big on the Hamilton trade, which was very similar. You don't win them all.
Klatt made his statement the night of the draft lottery, well before Lou replaced Snow . Garth was a much more conservative GM/trader, much more likely to keep and use his draft picks then trade them.
 

CREW99AW

Registered User
Mar 12, 2002
40,928
3,389
But you're using articles about 16th and 17th overall to argue that there's a dropoff at 9th, and 11th and 12th don't have much value because they're after the dropoff?

Read McKenzie's draft rankings which were released today:

https://www.tsn.ca/kc-1.1115400



McKenzie is, in my opinion, the #1 hockey insider guy working in the sport. He's now saying, in an article literally published today, that scout boards are wildly inconsistent with each other, with some having Hayton and Kratsov in their top 5 while others have Hughes & Boqvist outside the top 10.

In this case it seems you, a Flames fan, are operating with the mindset of wanting to convince yourself that there is this mythical dropoff after 9, where all the "good" players will be gone by the time Edmonton hits the podium. Experts are arguing that isn't the case, and articles about the 17th or 18th overall selections are pretty weak compared to Bob McKenzie reporting "how much potential variance" there is in how teams are valuable the top 13-14 players once Dahlin & Svech are taken.

Hamonic is great defenseman on a great contract. There's no reason for any sour grapes no matter who falls to 12th overall.
Thanks for posting this. A really interesting article. There are some intriguing prospects who will be still on the board at 11 and 12. I love how scouts are all over the board.
 

Kranix

Deranged Homer
Jun 27, 2012
18,122
16,154
Brad has to stand pat and wait for July 1, when he should sign some high priced forwards who can score some goals.
 

madmike77

Registered User
Jan 9, 2009
6,586
570
Brad has to stand pat and wait for July 1, when he should sign some high priced forwards who can score some goals.

Like Brouwer? Just joking, but I really don't trust the FA market. The Flames have done a decent job developing talent internally, but their FA forays have been mostly disappointing.
 

Haatley

haatley
Jun 9, 2011
6,986
1,862
Toronto
Makes sense. On defense, Hamilton is probably the target, and he’s definitely worth more than a non-top 5ish pick.

If the Islanders are looking at Brodie, I’d rather just re-sign de Haan for free.
Hamilton is worth more than a top 5 pick+++
 

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