JayMan82
Registered User
Seen enough of the Avs this year... If he continues his upswing, he'll be just like Shattenkirk...
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Seen enough of the Avs this year... If he continues his upswing, he'll be just like Shattenkirk...
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
Your entire argument is predicated on "he may not develop". Ignoring that he currently is.
There are 4 defensemen with more games and points in his draft class. All of them were taken in the first round, in the top 20. Barrie, a 3rd round selection, is about to have a season in the NHL in which he scores double digits in goals. And he is improving his play in his own end.
"Top 3 worst trade" is a little sensationalist.
I'll reiterate. Dan Girardi may not sign. He may go to free agency. We would be lucky to land a player with Barrie's potential. Ottawa isn't trading Zibanejad. And it's highly doubtful Colorado would move Barrie for Girardi, anyway.
Any player you get for Girardi and Callahan will be "a project".
Hire Sather
He Is Our Star
A top pairing shut down defenseman?
Because if the team that is trading for Girardi had a younger Girardi, why would they trade said player for Girardi?
That's not the issue. The issue is he and his agent may take it to free agency where he can get 7 years and 49 million.
Its a very real possibility.
Agree. If he continues the way he is developing, he's going to be a revered offensive defenseman in the NHL. 10+ goal, 40+ point player.
Brooklyn Rangers Fan
Change is good.
McGinn is the bigger issue I had with the offer you suggested. Why do we need him? What does he bring that we don't get from Dorsett when he comes back?
I understand the interest in Barrie's upside, but I'd prefer a pick over McGinn - and there should be some serious contingent value as well. How about Barrie and a 2014 1st, plus a contingent 2015 1st & 3rd if Girardi re-signs?
Jabroni
The People's Champ
- Jun 1, 2008
- 7,522
- 168
If Girardi goes, I don't know if Stralman can take 20-25 minuted on the 1st pairing. We'd have no "true" 1st pair RHD. If Stralman goes, we'd have:
Girardi
Klein
McIlrath (assuming he's reading)
on the right side. How would management feel with Klein on the 2nd pair?
Girardi
Klein
McIlrath (assuming he's reading)
on the right side. How would management feel with Klein on the 2nd pair?
There is just no way we can keep Callahan for what he is asking. Dustin Brown and David Backes are both players I think of when I think of Callahan and they will be making less than that. Dustin Brown took a discount to help the Kings build with him in their core. If Callahan can't do that then he needs to go.
Hopefully we can sign Girardi for 5 years at 5.5. MZA for 4 years at 4 and Stralman for 4 at 3.5. Amnesty Richards and we are left with $22,704,167 to fill out ten final spots.
Kreider(?)-Stepan (3.075)-Nash(7.8)
MZA(4)-X-X
Hagelin (2.25)-Brassard(?)-X
X-X-Dorsett(1.633)
McDonagh(4.7)-Girardi(5.5)
Staal(3.975)-Stralman(3.5)
Moore(?)-Klein(2.9)
Hank (8.5)
Talbot (.562)
Hopefully we can sign Girardi for 5 years at 5.5. MZA for 4 years at 4 and Stralman for 4 at 3.5. Amnesty Richards and we are left with $22,704,167 to fill out ten final spots.
Kreider(?)-Stepan (3.075)-Nash(7.8)
MZA(4)-X-X
Hagelin (2.25)-Brassard(?)-X
X-X-Dorsett(1.633)
McDonagh(4.7)-Girardi(5.5)
Staal(3.975)-Stralman(3.5)
Moore(?)-Klein(2.9)
Hank (8.5)
Talbot (.562)
Roo Returns
Skjeikspeare No More
Stasny is good but he's not that good and not even worth $5 million. He'll get that because it's the equivalent of a decent looking girl at a prom full of ugly girls. It's gonna be the same situation as Richards.
Stepan and Brassard can play top two. Between Boyle/Moore and Lindberg someone will play 4th line and PK.
Look for value. Derek Roy can be had for much cheaper and much less $$$. Mikhail Grabovski. Saku Koivu. Heck, even Daniel Alfredson. It's not about the $$$ up front but the years of the contract too. I'd rather pay Alfredson $4 million or Roy $4.8 then have Stasny for a seven year deal.
Stepan and Brassard can play top two. Between Boyle/Moore and Lindberg someone will play 4th line and PK.
Look for value. Derek Roy can be had for much cheaper and much less $$$. Mikhail Grabovski. Saku Koivu. Heck, even Daniel Alfredson. It's not about the $$$ up front but the years of the contract too. I'd rather pay Alfredson $4 million or Roy $4.8 then have Stasny for a seven year deal.
Bacon Artemi Bravo
Registered User
- Sep 20, 2007
- 7,079
- 9,721
I don't dislike McIlrath; I think he has upside. But you have 3 RHD who are veterans, none over 30 yet and are solid, steady defensemen. I think you can get Stralman re-signed on a good deal. Re-sign G. McIlrath is now blocked. I understand what McIlrath brings is unique in that we really dont have that over the top nastiness but how valuable is that in the new, faster, and more skilled NHL? Is a guy like Klein enough? Over the past couple weeks we have seen Staal, G, and McDonagh become more protective and physical in front of the net.
Looking at it at this moment, I wish we had taken Tarasenko over McI. I can't see where McI fits on this roster unless Klein gets moved (which is very doable with his contract, and could very well happen).
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
I doubt Klein gets moved. The McIlrath thing has been beaten to death. Most of us disagree with the pick, understand why it was made though, and would change it if we could.
McGinn can fill just about any role he's asked. He plays with grit and determination. He can score. He would add much needed size, grit, tenacity, and more scoring depth.
I think folks get too hung up on redundancy. Its not redundancy, its depth. Championship caliber teams are deep. They come at you in waves. 4 lines. From the back end, as well.
If Callahan gets dealt, getting McGinn, who is a handful of years younger, would fill his vacant role. He is a solid player to add.
The draft pick isn't going to do anything for this club. As long as we keep our own picks, we can still add quality players to the system through the draft. If we were looking to rebuild I would support adding a handful of draft picks. We aren't at that stage. We are looking to add and contend. Its just the reality of the situation. They can trade Girardi and Callahan and still contend if the pieces they add contribute at the NHL level now.
Callahan for Stewart and Schmaltz would add a quality prospect as well.
If G doesn't sign and can bring back two quality pieces that fit the identity Vigneault is seeking, then you do it. Same impact of the Gaborik trade. Add depth and a young piece with substantial upside.
Kreider - Stepan - Nash
McGinn - Stastny - Stewart
Pouliot - Brassard - Zuccarello
Hagelin - Miller - Fast
McDonagh - Barrie
Staal - Stralman
Moore - Klein
That lineup would come at its opposition non stop. 4 lines deep. Size and speed on the wings. Mobile defense.
The loss of G's defensive prowess is made up by the teams deeper and stronger transition and forecheck. Also, you still have McDonagh, Staal, Stralman, and Klein as defense-first guys. You need a balanced attack. We don't have a single legit offensive defenseman. McDonagh is putting up points, but a guy who can rush the puck and shoot it with authority is missing. Barrie has those traits.
This is all hypothetical, anyway.
If G signs, as a fan of his I'd be thrilled. Same with Callahan. But, you have to consider if the right move for the club going forward is to get multiple pieces for them and move forward.
I think you've said this to me before but having a young player come up and force out a veteran is a good problem to have. If he forces the team to play him, trade one of the vets.
Klein and Stralman, to me, are one and the same. Don't add offense, sound defensively - Klein albeit slightly more physical; Stralman albeit smarter and better with the puck. I wouldn't trade a guy who can add an entirely new element to this team when we have 2 guys that essentially do the same thing.
If Stralman signs a 5 year 2.9 Mill contract - i.e. Klein's contract, and Staal resigns... I think moving Klein in the offseason, or early in the season (if McIlrath needs slightly longer in Hartford), is the better alternative than trading McIlrath prematurely.
I understand that McIlrath doesn't address the need for a point shot on the blue line, or the need for a puck mover. But that's just the defensive corps we have to deal with. No FA's that fit the bill this year, really. AV will have to make due with what he's got for at least another year.
We are in a precarious situation in several regards... but in this particular case, I'd rather have a guy that adds the physical element than a guy who's skill set is more or less matched by another player on the team.
As for a newer, faster, NHL. A good player is a good player. Can McIlrath become that? Remains to be seen. But I think he's realistically looking at a projection of Douglas Murray, in this league.
So let's project...Girardi & Stralman sing new agreements, Klein is here and McIlrath is on the way. 4 Right Handed Defensemen.. What a terrible problem! What are we going to do???
Oh, yes. Slats would have people lined up at his door. That's exactly how Nashville got such good value for Klein.
Currency is a good thing.
Oh, yes. Slats would have people lined up at his door. That's exactly how Nashville got such good value for Klein.
Currency is a good thing.
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
It doesn't mean they will like how he has progressed. I don't have the time I used to and don't watch wolf pack games any more. I am curious as to how McIlrath is progressing.
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
It's interesting, it seems like any time NYR are strong at a position, people immediately want to "rectify" it, i.e. trade Talbot.
I agree with you for sure on what us required from a blueline nowadays.
One thing I want to add though is that one solid defensive D still enables his partner to be more offensive. IE, you don have to have 6 Ds that are good at moving the puck. If we like had Cam Fowler Id want him to be paired with Klein and not Rafa Diaz for example if you get what I mean.
Overall, we currently lack offense on the blueline. For sure. A little X-factor, if paired with a defensive D -- how much more offensive approach could Staal take?
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