Trade Rumours and Proposals Thread Part 17: What does "bold" mean?

[The Perfect Human*]

Get out of here Philli fan! We can't be making up random facts and rumours if you guys are coming in here to debunk them!

Haha that was the best. Chris Hansen-like moment of fact-debunking.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Not like we have a #1C or anything...because that's an easy asset to acquire...

Agreed, I cannot fathom how people are so willing to move RNH, unless the return is Crosby, Stamkos, etc. it makes 0 sense to move him. J. Schultz IMO is another untouchable, he chose us over 29 other teams and while some posters like yourself aren't as thrilled with his potential as posters like myself are, he still brings us something that we lack as a team and in a big way.

I'd also be very hesitant to move Klefbom and to a lesser extent Marincin.

 

[The Perfect Human*]

Chicago is looking for a number two center and doesn't seem too impressed with Bolland and Seabrook. How about this blockbuster:

To Chicago:
7th Overall Pick
Sam Gagner
Martin Marincin

To Edmonton:
Brent Seabrook
Dave Bolland
Andrew Shaw

Why, because he got walked by Nyqvist on one play?

I don't see any reason for them to move Seabrook on that dream contract.

 

[Gret99zky]

Gotta keep the Nuge. Yak, Hall, Ebs, and RNH.

 

[candyman82]

None of those deals are likely to land Johansen

 

[The Perfect Human*]

Man that Logan Couture is unbelievable. He plays with ridiculous heart and desire. He's been battered and destroyed in the SJS series. And he's a C as well.

I'd gladly move Eberle+Gagner in combination for a package centered around Couture, not that SJS would ever consider moving him. Absolute stud. He's like the C version of Hall in what he brings in intangibles.

 

[OnTheBrink]

MDZ>7th overall
JT Miller>Harti+2nd (He's a 15th overall pick and projects to be a top-6 F once he finishes development).

I think it's pretty fair value some Ranger fans agree I would change the Ana 2nd to a Edm 2nd if that sweetened the deal.

And if really necessary add both 2nds addresses 2 needs and leaves us some roster players still to flip for role players.

 

[nexttothemoon]

For the life of me I can't understand the Oilers fanbase. This is the group of fans that for years cried for a rebuild because the foundation was absent and the team was going nowhere.

Now the team is experiencing the growing pains of rebuilding has a tremendous group of top line forwards and a group of young defensemen that look very promising one who not only just played his first pro season but his first full season and not the college length.

So what do these fans do? They turn around and want to fire and trade anyone and everyone on the team for some sort of rebuild shortcut and a sniff at the playoffs regardless of what it does to the looks of the team going forward. It's just puzzling, I have no idea how it seems that this large group of people lost their patience and their sense of perspective on any gains the team has made over the last year.

7 years without playoffs makes any fanbase impatient. It's very understandable that fans want something more to cheer about than a lottery show a few days after the end of yet another mediocre season.

I'm on board for the rebuild (no other logical path to success imo), but I do understand that people want some results.

This season it was very questionable whether this team showed any real improvement. The last two games which they won handily somewhat cushioned the play of how stenchy they played over the last few weeks. Over a full 82 game season they were trending to probably have no more than another low 70 pt result so really progression and improvement was nowhere to be seen. Offense and defense was not really trending upward... and several players had mediocre, regression type years.

I'm still hopeful, but less optimistic than I was last year at this time. I think the team has many fundamental flaws (defense, size, faceoff skills, consistency... on and on) and I don't think that we can expect linear progression and improvement on the team until many areas are addressed outside of just waiting for the young players and prospects to develop some more.

Short answer... yes keep the core... but some major moves need to be made to get this team into a spot where they can realistically challenge for a playoff spot. Next year isn't looking like it will be starting off great...likely with RNH recovering from surgery and a LOT depends on the moves management makes to re-assemble the bottom 6 and add to the defense.... which may or may not be effective.

Just a lot of question marks right now and the chance this team becomes a perpetual "rebuilder of the rebuild" type organization is actually quite high.

 

[Shanahanigans]

Anyone know why Schultz is so skinny? Really hampers his ability to break up a cycle. I'm not expecting him to be Byfuglien, but being a 6'2 185lb 22 year old NHL defenseman is very skinny. Once his body isn't a detriment to him, he'll be much better defensively because of his hockey IQ and stickwork.

 

[Uindicator]

Anyone know why Schultz is so skinny? Really hampers his ability to break up a cycle. I'm not expecting him to be Byfuglien, but being a 6'2 185lb 22 year old NHL defenseman is very skinny. Once his body isn't a detriment to him, he'll be much better defensively because of his hockey IQ and stickwork.

Or any of the kids for that matter, seriously these kids need a better Fitness instructor or Nutritionist, whatever it is they need besides steroids please get it oilers management, they still look like junior players out there.
And i cant believe people are picking apart j.Schultz after half a season in the NHL . He destroyed the AHL as a rookie pro, and then makes the jump to the nhl and puts up top numbers for a defenceman while playing less minutes than the usual minutes for a top D. He would have gotten more if his team wasnt S@$t on 5v5, remember his forwards have to do the scoring not him. And what an idiotic comment this is " I feel age is a bigger factor into their development than what "pro year" they're in." First of all theres a big big difference between College to AHL and then to NHL if you didnt already know that, so jus because he is 22 and probably never played against pro players before he supposed to know how the AHL and NHL game is played, wow. What justin schultz did this year was pretty remarkable.

 

[Uindicator]

Schultz is about the same level of Dougie right now, the reason I'd do that deal 1-for-1 is because of the potential of Hamilton.

As for Voynov, to me he's clearly on another level when compared to Schultz - and both players were taken in the same draft. He's already a #2 defenseman for LAK, playing + hockey and leading their D in ESP. At 22, he's anchoring the 2nd pairing for a contender (as some #2 Dmen are entrusted to do, like Shattenkirk). He also averaged more than a minute more of PP time per game than Schultz. To me, at his age he's a slightly inferior PP player than Schultz, while being a MUCH better ES/PK player. In my mind he's not only the better player now, but projects to be better down the road as well.

John Carlson is already a #2 defenseman for the Capitals - arguably their best 2-way defenseman (ahead of Green and Alzner). He is far and away better than Justin Schultz, and ahead of Voynov as well. Big body, and a great ES player. This a no-brainer 1-for-1 deal in my mind, for a guy that again, was picked in the same draft year as Schutlz

Justin Faulk is nowhere near the PP threat that Justin Schultz is, but again is one of those guys that is a great even-strength player. In my mind his injury was one of the bigger reasons for CAR's late-season meltdown, along with Ward's injuries. He's 2 years younger than Schultz - part of his allure is the potential factor.

I'm going to be honest, I value even-strength efficacy over PP production. The Oilers PP was 3rd in the NHL with Jeff Petry/Cory Potter/Tom Gilbert as their main triggermen. They put Justin Schultz there and feed him heavy, heavy minutes (3:12 for Schultz vs 2:28 for Potter, 2:05 for Gilbert, and 1:15 for Petry) so he can accumulate PP points, and they slip to 8th place with Schultz. This is with essentially the same group of players on the top unit to play with. Schultz's contribution to our PP's success is minimal compared to lesser-heralded players in the same position/role.

To have a complete player like Voynov/Carlson manning the point at ES coming at the expense of a bit of PP efficacy is well worth it for me.

this right here , wow. I'm sure you would say the same thing if Karlsson was on our team lol, ur crazy dude. Schultz is gonna put up Karlsson numbers or close to. Shattenkirk? u gotta be kidding me Carlson? FAULK ! jeez man, seriously what u smoking?

 

[Up the Irons]

Fixed, in my book everyone is available for the right price but the three I keep over everyone are Yak, Hall, and Eb's.

so trade the puck distributing, 1C and the puck moving, top pairing D, but keep all three wingers because they have highend talent?

 

[McDoused]

Why, because he got walked by Nyqvist on one play?

I don't see any reason for them to move Seabrook on that dream contract.

Check out the main board. He's really getting ripped on by hawks fans. They even have a thread in the trade proposal thread. I honestly think my offer is pretty good.

 

[joestevens29]

Chicago is looking for a number two center and doesn't seem too impressed with Bolland and Seabrook. How about this blockbuster:

To Chicago:
7th Overall Pick
Sam Gagner
Martin Marincin

To Edmonton:
Brent Seabrook
Dave Bolland
Andrew Shaw

CHI can't afford to trade Seabrook. They might as well just go after Weiss.

Lowetide mentioned problems in CLB with Ryan Johansen today on his show....

http://www.jacketscannon.com/2013/5...season-is-ryan-johansen-going-to-be-a-problem

With Howson in Edm and the Oilers past interest in him, I would see if we could swing a trade for RyJo and R. Murray:

Gagner, Hemsky (1/2 salary), 1st rd pick 2013

for

Murray an RyJo

I don't see why we'd target Johansen unless it was for dirt cheap. Guy has a lot of issues at this point.

The problem with that analogy is that after trading away Nash the BJ's really didn't have the same talent pool left over like the Oilers would.

Trading away one or two pieces of the youth movement to fill out the roster with some functional size is going to have to happen at some point.

Where else do you think it's going to come from? Draft picks and FA signings?



With what exactly? Do you really think that trading the current bottom six along with draft picks is going to fill out the rest of the roster with better players? Who in their right mind is going to give us these players for nothing?

I'd love to hear the trade proposals and FA signings that are going to bring in 6-8 new players that will make this a contending team without giving anything of value away, because we only have 6-7 pieces that have any value to other teams.

Who said anything about being a contender? Isn't the goal to take the next step? And no it's not hard to have 6-8 new faces. Bottom 6 players can be acquired via free agency very easily as well as bottom pairing d-men.

In 11-12 we added Potter, Belanger, Sutton, Petreell, Lander, Hodri and Barker to the lineup. I suspect something similar to that, along with a big move or two.

 

[joestevens29]

Anyone know why Schultz is so skinny? Really hampers his ability to break up a cycle. I'm not expecting him to be Byfuglien, but being a 6'2 185lb 22 year old NHL defenseman is very skinny. Once his body isn't a detriment to him, he'll be much better defensively because of his hockey IQ and stickwork.

Wasn't he only 165 not that long ago? Like within a year?

 

[CornKicker]

schultz is a phenominal skater and has excelent hockey sense, there is no reason to believe he wont be able to round out his game and be effective in both ends of the rink.

 

[joestevens29]

schultz is a phenominal skater and has excelent hockey sense, there is no reason to believe he wont be able to round out his game and be effective in both ends of the rink.

I don't even know that I'd be mad if he didn't. If he turns out to be a Lubo or Brian Campbell that isn't a bad thing.

 

[joestevens29]

Looking on the main board there are a couple trades I would love to see this offseason.

Trading our #1 pick this year for Edler seemed to be agreed upon for the most part, but obviously tinkering can be had.

Acquiring Johnny Boychuk for a 2nd round pick + a B level prospect is what most Boston fans find appropriate because they are trying to dump salary.

Those two acquisition immediately make our defence one of the best in the league.

Edler-Boychuk
Smid-Petry
Schultz/Klefbom-Schultz

Be interesting to see what they do, but a lot will depend on what these young kids can show. I think the B's sooner move Kelly or Peverley or just let Ference walk.

 

[joestevens29]

As much as I'd love for the team to buy out Horcoff, none of the 2nd/3rd guys you listed really fit. Weiss is going to a Horcoffian contract to play a top 6 role, Roy and Bozak are Gagner-lite, and MacDonald is more of a top 6 player. The rest of them are downgrades. Cheaper, but still downgrades.

Aside from Steckel, who's probably going to get a massive pay raise, I'd be interested in pretty much everyone you listed in the 3rd/4th category over Belanger.

Steckel a massive raise? He's a 4th line center making 1.1mil already. He hasn't gotten better since he got that 3 year deal.

 

[joestevens29]

Article in Winnipeg Freepress stating Burmistrov wants out. Asked for trade at past deadline and now says will not play with the Jets (but will not sign in KHL according to agent)

Interesting target. Young forward played PK, hits and as improved on the dot up to 47% now.

Cost is the question. He's a top 10 pick from 3 years ago.

 

[dustrock]

Article in Winnipeg Freepress stating Burmistrov wants out. Asked for trade at past deadline and now says will not play with the Jets (but will not sign in KHL according to agent)

Oh rrrrrrrrrrreally? Hmmm. Want.

 

[joestevens29]

Could something be worked out around our 7th for Burmistov, 13th and Stuart?

I know Belanger would just love it there

 

[OilerFan4Life]

I don't see why Vancouver trades us Edler when there will be 4-5 eastern conference times lining up with better offers.

Will the Flyers flip Coututier for Edler?
Will the Red Wings flip one of their young forwards for him?
Will the Lightnin flip Connolly in a package for him?

All very possible.

 

[OilerFan4Life]

Burmistrov has size and intangibles. Would be a perfect set up man for a trigger guy like Yakupov.

Jets have zero center depth. Little is an okay #2, Jokinen is done, Antropov is a free agent.

Gagner for Burmi +

 

[OilerFan4Life]

Is anyone else as confused as to why people continue to suggest that Couturier is available out of Philly as I am?

Because outside of Matt Read, who is a UFA next year, they don't have any other available trade chips to bring in a top defenseman.

Couts is a 3rd line C on Philly who has 2nd line C upside.

What confuses me is why this guy is touted as the next coming of Forsberg when at best he looks like a Patrik Berglund.