Rumor: Trade Rumors/Proposals/Free Agents 2017-2018

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danielpalfredsson

youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
Aug 14, 2013
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How's this if we can't pay Karl "market value" which might be as high as 12M....

Karlsson (extended with NSH)+Ryan to NSH for Subban
Ryan+NSH 2019 1st (Protected) to VAN for VAN 2019 7th
Ryan (50 percent retained) to VGK for VGK 2019 7th
Ryan (50 percent retained) to PHI for PHI 2019 2nd
B Prospect+2019 PHI 7th from PHI to VAN for VGK 2019 7th


Ottawa gets Subban signed at 10/10/8/8 and 30M in cash via dumping Ryan

Nashville gets rid of Subban who some seem to be hinting at there being problems in NSH and upgrade to an extended Karlsson at the cost of a late 1st round pick.

The rebuilding Canucks get a NSH 1st round pick and a B prospect (From PHI) for retaining 3.625M x 4 years

The VGK who continually use their cap space to accrue assets get a 2nd round pick in order to retain 1.8125M x 4 years.

The Flyers get Bobby Ryan signed at 1.8125M for the next four years. The prophecy of him going to PHI is complete, and while he has numerous injury issues, the bar for what Ryan has to be at under 2M is incredibly low.

The only two things I am iffy on in this ridiculous proposal is if a 1st+B Prospect is enough for VAN to retain that much money (probably not), and whether a protected 1st is enough for NSH to have to give up to upgrade Subban to Karlsson. NSH giving up more for the upgrade would fix the VAN issue.....
 

danielpalfredsson

youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
Aug 14, 2013
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Karlsson & Ryan to Canes for #2, Faulk, Rask and Necas

That'd be nice, but I'd rather Pesce since he is cost controlled.

I highly doubt we get that much though if we're including Ryan. While other teams may have told Ottawa they could beat Vegas' offer in the off season or at the draft, their offer was rumoured to be something along the lines of two 1sts, a top prospect, and a conditional pick for Karl+Ryan.

#2 alone would be more valuable than 3 VGK 1sts and their top prospect. So adding Necas who is a very solid prospect, then Faulk and Rask, that'd be a monster offer compared to Vegas' from the deadline.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
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I swear people seem to forget this...I hear a lot of the "If Karlsson is moved, trade everyone else away and start over". You can't. That would literally be handing Colorado the 1st overall pick. If anything you have to hold on to those guys through out 2018-2019, then move them.

First off, at best, Colorado would have an 18.5% chance at 1st OA.

Second, what does it matter; we don't own that pick either way. Either we start now, or we start later. Would we really be any better off finishing out of the playoffs this year, just so that Colorado doesn't get a great pick, only to trade everybody off after the season? If we go scorched earth, we won't just be bad this coming season, and guessing what will happen much further than 2 seasons into the future is pointless, as a lot can change really quickly.

The idea of intentionally tanking doesn't really work; teams have a way of beating the odds when people write them off, so with our luck we'd trade everyone and Condon would play out of his mind pushing us just outside the playoffs. Even if we did manage to finish dead last in the league, the odds are better that we draft 4th than 1st. The best move is not to worry about where you will draft, rather worry about making smart deals that best guarantee future success.
 

Sens of Anarchy

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Jul 9, 2013
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Moving all 3 is not an option with Colorado holding our 2019 pick.
I swear people seem to forget this...I hear a lot of the "If Karlsson is moved, trade everyone else away and start over". You can't. That would literally be handing Colorado the 1st overall pick. If anything you have to hold on to those guys through out 2018-2019, then move them.

We already gave Colorado the pick. We already finished 29th with all 3 players.. Karlsson's health was a factor, but health is not guaranteed on any of them next year. They could be bad enough again to finish bottom 10 and give Colorado a very good pick. 1st overall as we know is far from a sure thing even if they finish last.
With no 2nd, 3rd this year, Our 1st last year gone and no 1st next year, Dorion decides its time to rebuild/retool with a 3-5 year plan towards becoming competitive and he traded his #2c to start that ball rolling at the TDL. He better be able to pull some rabbits out of his hat to convince all these guys to stick around. The pick is gone unless we make a deal with Colorado to get it back... And if I'm Sakic , that would be expensive.

How do the Sens afford all 3 of these guys... They will need to move salary.. Hoffman, Ceci maybe, Smith, maybe Pageau or Dzingel (pay day coming soon) .. and fill in with cheaper players likely further reducing the depth and chance to win for at least a couple of years. How compelling is that to these 3 guys.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
53,145
30,365
How's this if we can't pay Karl "market value" which might be as high as 12M....

Karlsson (extended with NSH)+Ryan to NSH for Subban
Ryan+NSH 2019 1st (Protected) to VAN for VAN 2019 7th
Ryan (50 percent retained) to VGK for VGK 2019 7th
Ryan (50 percent retained) to PHI for PHI 2019 2nd

B Prospect+2019 PHI 7th from PHI to VAN for VGK 2019 7th


Ottawa gets Subban signed at 10/10/8/8 and 30M in cash via dumping Ryan

Nashville gets rid of Subban who some seem to be hinting at there being problems in NSH and upgrade to an extended Karlsson at the cost of a late 1st round pick.

The rebuilding Canucks get a NSH 1st round pick and a B prospect (From PHI) for retaining 3.625M x 4 years

The VGK who continually use their cap space to accrue assets get a 2nd round pick in order to retain 1.8125M x 4 years.

The Flyers get Bobby Ryan signed at 1.8125M for the next four years. The prophecy of him going to PHI is complete, and while he has numerous injury issues, the bar for what Ryan has to be at under 2M is incredibly low.

The only two things I am iffy on in this ridiculous proposal is if a 1st+B Prospect is enough for VAN to retain that much money (probably not), and whether a protected 1st is enough for NSH to have to give up to upgrade Subban to Karlsson. NSH giving up more for the upgrade would fix the VAN issue.....

Pretty sure the max that can be retained by all other teams combined is 50%. Multiple teams can retain salary on the same player, but it can't add up to over 50% of the total contract, at least that's my understanding.
 

danielpalfredsson

youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
Aug 14, 2013
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Pretty sure the max that can be retained by all other teams combined is 50%. Multiple teams can retain salary on the same player, but it can't add up to over 50% of the total contract, at least that's my understanding.

Up to 50 percent can be retained twice. Dubnyk being traded multiple teams is the most recent example I can think of where it has happened.

"Edmonton was already retaining 50% of his salary, and the Predators are retaining 25%, meaning Montreal will only pay 25% of his remaining salary."

Montreal acquires Devan Dubnyk

It would be incredibly convoluted, but I think the most cost effective way to get out of Ryan's contract would be to find one or two teams to retain, and a final team who valued Ryan enough at under 2M that they'd actually give up an asset to acquire him. That asset could be used to help pay off the teams retaining.

Outside of a team wanting to position themselves to acquire Karlsson, nobody is taking 7.25M x 4 without us giving up something massive like the 4th overall pick. There's not even a precedent for a team taking on that kind of salary dump. Even 3.652M x 4 is quite substantial.
 

senators101

Registered User
Jan 17, 2008
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Moving all 3 is not an option with Colorado holding our 2019 pick.
You sort of have to view it as a sunk cost. If we're keeping our pick this year, you don't really think about next year's pick, it doesn't work like that and you don't go into the season trying to ensure Colorado doesn't get a top 5 pick just to trade these guys next season.
 
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Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
53,145
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Up to 50 percent can be retained twice. Dubnyk being traded multiple teams is the most recent example I can think of where it has happened.

"Edmonton was already retaining 50% of his salary, and the Predators are retaining 25%, meaning Montreal will only pay 25% of his remaining salary."

Montreal acquires Devan Dubnyk

It would be incredibly convoluted, but I think the most cost effective way to get out of Ryan's contract would be to find one or two teams to retain, and a final team who valued Ryan enough at under 2M that they'd actually give up an asset to acquire him. That asset could be used to help pay off the teams retaining.

Outside of a team wanting to position themselves to acquire Karlsson, nobody is taking 7.25M x 4 without us giving up something massive like the 4th overall pick. There's not even a precedent for a team taking on that kind of salary dump. Even 3.652M x 4 is quite substantial.


Weird. Seems pointless to restrict the initial team to 50% and allow the second team to flip that contract again, but oh well, I guess that makes Ryan slightly more tradable.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
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You sort of have to view it as a sunk cost. If we're keeping our pick this year, you don't really think about next year's pick, it doesn't work like that and you don't go into the season trying to ensure Colorado doesn't get a top 5 pick just to trade these guys next season.
The only argument I can see is that by trading now, you'll be better in the 19-20 season when we have our pick but still not good enough to make the playoffs than if you trade the players off leading into that season, so you're not so much caring about handing the Avs a great pick (who cares) but rather making our 2020 pick worse for no reason.
 

branch

#GirlBoss #Vibes
Jan 12, 2008
8,837
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We already gave Colorado the pick. We already finished 29th with all 3 players.. Karlsson's health was a factor, but health is not guaranteed on any of them next year. They could be bad enough again to finish bottom 10 and give Colorado a very good pick. 1st overall as we know is far from a sure thing even if they finish last.
With no 2nd, 3rd this year, Our 1st last year gone and no 1st next year, Dorion decides its time to rebuild/retool with a 3-5 year plan towards becoming competitive and he traded his #2c to start that ball rolling at the TDL. He better be able to pull some rabbits out of his hat to convince all these guys to stick around. The pick is gone unless we make a deal with Colorado to get it back... And if I'm Sakic , that would be expensive.

How do the Sens afford all 3 of these guys... They will need to move salary.. Hoffman, Ceci maybe, Smith, maybe Pageau or Dzingel (pay day coming soon) .. and fill in with cheaper players likely further reducing the depth and chance to win for at least a couple of years. How compelling is that to these 3 guys.

I know they own the pick. But at this point I want to mitigate the massive return that COL got for Duchene. I don't think that this franchise can deal with giving them the best shot at #1 overall. I don't know how this team can rebound from that. Hoffman, Ceci, and Smith should all go for picks or people on ELCs and there will be money to afford the core guys. If you get a decent return for them and don't get utterly roasted in trades you should be able to entice them to stay.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
53,145
30,365
I know they own the pick. But at this point I want to mitigate the massive return that COL got for Duchene. I don't think that this franchise can deal with giving them the best shot at #1 overall. I don't know how this team can rebound from that. Hoffman, Ceci, and Smith should all go for picks or people on ELCs and there will be money to afford the core guys. If you get a decent return for them and don't get utterly roasted in trades you should be able to entice them to stay.

Ok, so if we finish just outside of the playoffs next year and our pick wins the lottery for 1st OA, are we any better off than if we finish dead last? What Colorado gets is irrelevant, you make moves that help you going forward. The only real concern is what affect any moves we make will have on the 2020 season; if we make moves that don't make us a playoff team with a strong foundation going forward, but keep us out of contention for a top 3 pick, then that's a problem, but where Colorado drafts with our pick next year is irrelevant to us.
 

JD1

Registered User
Sep 12, 2005
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Would you take a 20% hair cut to stay in Ottawa? Seriously? Ask yourself that question. The organization is in shambles and the owner is a cheap SOB then you want him to take a discount. On top of the weather being brutal, taxes in the top of the league, the team sucks and you're constantly in the spotlight with very privacy.

People need to start looking at this situation realistically.

I agree completely

realistically even god himself, Daniel Alfredsson, has indicated that EK wants to be here

that appears to be what is real

not your rant about the shitty city we live in
 

branch

#GirlBoss #Vibes
Jan 12, 2008
8,837
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Ok, so if we finish just outside of the playoffs next year and our pick wins the lottery for 1st OA, are we any better off than if we finish dead last? What Colorado gets is irrelevant, you make moves that help you going forward. The only real concern is what affect any moves we make will have on the 2020 season; if we make moves that don't make us a playoff team with a strong foundation going forward, but keep us out of contention for a top 3 pick, then that's a problem, but where Colorado drafts with our pick next year is irrelevant to us.

It's not irrelevant though in my opinion. I seriously think that the team and the fanbase is teetering on an unstable foundation right now. In regards to the arena, who will be here, if Eugene sells, attendance, relocation possibilities. I think that could be a catalyst (triggering a rebuild then subsequently losing a shot at 1st overall) where everyone stops going to the games and the team sputters out and dies. Gary says fine Eugene, you know what it's obviously not working here anymore, move the team. I agree it's no guarantee that a lottery pick will even happen but I think it is essential to mitigate that risk.
 

danielpalfredsson

youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
Aug 14, 2013
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It's not irrelevant though in my opinion. I seriously think that the team and the fanbase is teetering on an unstable foundation right now. In regards to the arena, who will be here, if Eugene sells, attendance, relocation possibilities. I think that could be a catalyst (triggering a rebuild then subsequently losing a shot at 1st overall) where everyone stops going to the games and the team sputters out and dies. Gary says fine Eugene, you know what it's obviously not working here anymore, move the team. I agree it's no guarantee that a lottery pick will even happen but I think it is essential to mitigate that risk.

I'm not trying to be rude, but if you have any worries that are predicated on the possibility of the team eventually being moved, you're out to lunch.

There's no chance this team ever gets moved. Either Melnyk puts up with the supposed losses he'd incur if people stopped attending games, or he sells to someone who will.

A move only happens if there is no arena, and no person or group willing to purchase the team in Ottawa. Calling the odds of either of those things slim would be an overstatement. They odds are pretty much non existent. Even if Melnyk blows the downtown move, the CTC is still very young by NHL standards, and while it'd set the franchise back tremendously to have to stay in Kanata, the team could begrudgingly survive there if needed.
 

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#GirlBoss #Vibes
Jan 12, 2008
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I'm not trying to be rude, but if you have any worries that are predicated on the possibility of the team eventually being moved, you're out to lunch.

There's no chance this team ever gets moved. Either Melnyk puts up with the supposed losses he'd incur if people stopped attending games, or he sells to someone who will.

A move only happens if there is no arena, and no person or group willing to purchase the team in Ottawa. Calling the odds of either of those things slim would be an overstatement. They odds are pretty much non existent. Even if Melnyk blows the downtown move, the CTC is still very young by NHL standards, and while it'd set the franchise back tremendously to have to stay in Kanata, the team could begrudgingly survive there if needed.

I don't know man. Obviously it is pure speculation, but stranger things have happened. I don't think they'll move but like you said, if the team goes through that kind of a cataclysmic event it will be a period of very dark years. The NHL has seen the vibrancy that a new (old) market like Winnipeg has brought the league and there's people in a few cities with NHL ready arenas that are ready to buy season tickets.
 

Burrowsaurus

Registered User
Mar 20, 2013
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It's not irrelevant though in my opinion. I seriously think that the team and the fanbase is teetering on an unstable foundation right now. In regards to the arena, who will be here, if Eugene sells, attendance, relocation possibilities. I think that could be a catalyst (triggering a rebuild then subsequently losing a shot at 1st overall) where everyone stops going to the games and the team sputters out and dies. Gary says fine Eugene, you know what it's obviously not working here anymore, move the team. I agree it's no guarantee that a lottery pick will even happen but I think it is essential to mitigate that risk.
there are vitually zero relocation possibilities
 

Burrowsaurus

Registered User
Mar 20, 2013
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Ok. Well even if it weren't a factor it would really, really, really suck and CTC would pull 9,000 people per game and we would have to hear the BS from the other fanbases
i dont think it ever gets to that point. we consistently sell 15-16 a game.. think about how much prices will drop if we start to sell 9 a game.. this will cause a surge in ticket sales from onlien ticket sites.. i think we will always be aaround the 15 mark.. unless we bring in a mcdavid level talent
 

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#GirlBoss #Vibes
Jan 12, 2008
8,837
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i dont think it ever gets to that point. we consistently sell 15-16 a game.. think about how much prices will drop if we start to sell 9 a game.. this will cause a surge in ticket sales from onlien ticket sites.. i think we will always be aaround the 15 mark.. unless we bring in a mcdavid level talent

If the core is gone (EK, Stone, Duchene) I think it's likely that you get close to 10,000. It would be an AHL team.
 

TheBradyBunch

Registered User
Dec 17, 2008
16,316
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Would you guys trade Hoffman (+?) for Kessel?

Hoffman makes 12.3m (5.127m cap hit/year) over the next two years; Kessel makes 12.6m (at a 6.8m cap hit/year). At that point, Hoffman's contract expires and Kessel's salary goes down to 4.8m per year for the next two years.

Pens are apparently looking at dealing Kessel and they are targetting an LW.
 

FolignoQuantumLeap

Don't Hold The Door
Mar 16, 2009
31,084
7,399
Ottawa
Would you guys trade Hoffman (+?) for Kessel?

Hoffman makes 12.3m (5.127m cap hit/year) over the next two years; Kessel makes 12.6m (at a 6.8m cap hit/year). At that point, Hoffman's contract expires and Kessel's salary goes down to 4.8m per year for the next two years.

Pens are apparently looking at dealing Kessel and they are targetting an LW.
He's too old to make sense. We also actually have depth on RW here and virtually none without Hoffman.
 

bert

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Nov 11, 2002
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I agree completely

realistically even god himself, Daniel Alfredsson, has indicated that EK wants to be here

that appears to be what is real

not your rant about the ****ty city we live in

You're dilusional about the situation.
 

TheBradyBunch

Registered User
Dec 17, 2008
16,316
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He's too old to make sense. We also actually have depth on RW here and virtually none without Hoffman.
Yeah, agreed that Kessel isn't really a fit given our organizational depth and the state of our team.

I do think Hoffman could be a really solid fit with Pittsburgh if they are to trade Kessel.
 

Silencio

Registered User
Nov 6, 2006
3,978
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Toronto
Would you guys trade Hoffman (+?) for Kessel?

Hoffman makes 12.3m (5.127m cap hit/year) over the next two years; Kessel makes 12.6m (at a 6.8m cap hit/year). At that point, Hoffman's contract expires and Kessel's salary goes down to 4.8m per year for the next two years.

Pens are apparently looking at dealing Kessel and they are targetting an LW.

I'd do it if only to troll Leafs fans. While he's on the wrong side of 30 he did just post the best numbers of his career.
 
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