Proposal: Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread: Chris Kelly Attending Camp on PTO

[McNuge]

Honestly curious. How come no one says that Pasta is a product of Marchand and Bergeron? How come only Drai is a product of a good player?

 

[bone]

There are comparables for Draisaitl and Pastrnak situations, and there are significant differences. Pastrnak played with Bergeron (the best two-way center in the game) and Marchand (arguably the best two-way winger in the game), who are both signed to contracts around $6-7M/season. He didn't have a strong argument that he could 1) play at an elite level away from them, and 2) deserves to be paid significantly more than them.

That's probably the best point made so far showing the difference in situations.

 

[belair]

Depends. Spaghetti, no, but I'm partial to ravioli stuffed with beef and three cheeses.

 

[McTrashBoat]

There are comparables for Draisaitl and Pastrnak situations, and there are significant differences. Pastrnak played with Bergeron (the best two-way center in the game) and Marchand (arguably the best two-way winger in the game), who are both signed to contracts around $6-7M/season. He didn't have a strong argument that he could 1) play at an elite level away from them, and 2) deserves to be paid significantly more than them.

that makes a lot of sense

spread that to the mains

 

[smokersarejokers]

Honestly curious. How come no one says that Pasta is a product of Marchand and Bergeron? How come only Drai is a product of a good player?

Thank you. Yes. I think some of us still have shell shock from the last 8 years and with good reason.

Talking with a buddy the other day, and we couldn't believe how many terrible, blood boiling games that we actually watched. The Oilers were actually affecting my personal life near the end of the Eakins era. I had to stop watching for a month or two until he was let go.

Sorry, I guess I went off topic a bit haha. I suppose I can admit to a bit of "shell shock".

 

[NeverForget06]

Honestly curious. How come no one says that Pasta is a product of Marchand and Bergeron? How come only Drai is a product of a good player?

Also how come nobody is saying that contract is a risk after only one good season? They say it about Drai and he has at least some record of putting up points before this year.

 

[Gord]

You heard me. I said PEOPLE WORRY TOO MUCH ABOUT PLAYERS SALARIES ON THESE FORUMS.

If the Oilers avoid poor spending throughout the rest of the roster unlike GM Don Sweeney, the Oilers will have no issues absorbing that ~$1.5m of 'misspent' cap space.

love how you say we shouldn't worry about players salaries when your reason why we shouldn't rests on an "IF the oilers can avoid"

there is no proof the oilers can avoid overspending on players. that's why any overpay is concerning, no matter who the player is.

 

[Gord]

Also how come nobody is saying that contract is a risk after only one good season? They say it about Drai and he has at least some record of putting up points before this year.

it's 2 years shorter and about 2 million less per year.
so it's much less of a risk.

 

[onetweasy]

exactly.... 2 million in space allows you to resign maroon and maybe even another lower tier player... it matters a lot actually, especially to a team that will be in "cap hell" like the oilers will be starting next year

chia has proven time and time again that he can't negotiate contracts

Is there ever a time when the sky is not falling in your world?

 

[Frank the Tank]

it's 2 years shorter and about 2 million less per year.
so it's much less of a risk.

If each player's elite production is tied to them playing with their respective linemates, I would rather have Draisaitl dependent on a 20 year old McDavid over Pastrnak dependent on a 32 year old Bergeron and/or 29 year old Marchand.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Probably Talbot for one.

lol. Whatever.

 

[Mr Positive]

love how you say we shouldn't worry about players salaries when your reason why we shouldn't rests on an "IF the oilers can avoid"

there is no proof the oilers can avoid overspending on players. that's why any overpay is concerning, no matter who the player is.

If we're just talking Chiarelli, the contracts he signed are Lucic, Klefbom, Sekera, McDavid, Draisaitl, Kassian, Russell, Talbot and a few others. That is a good mix of spending, and different "overpays" and "steals" and "fair". I put those in quotes because that's just our perception of them, and not what is true behind the scenes. Chiarelli is the same guy in all these situations, so does he sometimes feel like doing a good job and other times feels like doing a bad job? Of course not.

Fans are notoriously uninformed about all the nuance that goes into a contract, and I'm definitely including myself in that group. That's why I don't just assume a contract is good or bad based on my impression, but instead try to figure out why a contract is as high or low as it is.

Believe it or not, there is plenty of reason to believe that the Draisaitl contract is good value for the team, and even better than the Pastrnak's. Imo, the truth is probably that both are fair.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

the problem is that chia has basically done three things with the mcdavid/drai contracts:

1. taken a MASSIVE gamble that drai is a top-10 player in the league, based off the smallest of sample sizes. this is further exasperated by the even smaller "playing on his own line" sample size that shows drai is NOWHERE NEAR an elite player when not playing with another elite player like hall or mcdavid. the size of this gamble, based can't be overstated

2. ensured that we can't win a cup in years 2-4 of drais deal, as we won't have the cap space to compete. we still have enough space this year to compete, so this is our last legitimate kick at the can until likely 2021-22 (the 5th year of drais contract). we'll be competitive during those lean years, but i would be absolutely shocked if we are a dominant team for any of them

3. banked on the cap rising significantly by the back half of the drai/mcdavid contracts. the only way we become dominant from around 20-21 through 24-25 (when drai's contract ends) is if #1 ends up being true, which as noted is already a huge gamble, and the cap limit rising 3-4% a year, which is unlikely in its own right

chia got absolutely bent over on the drai deal, and a little bent over on the mcdavid deal as well. the total "overspend" is likely around 3 million a year between the 2 of them, with the majority of that coming from the ridiculous drai contract

Ya. McDavid is overpaid. Sigh.

 

[belair]

it's 2 years shorter and about 2 million less per year.
so it's much less of a risk.

Good, so it levels out some of that $10m the Bruins dropped on Beleskey and Backes over the past two seasons. They needed to save as much cap space per year as possible because they have a three year window and about $20m to build a defense and shore up the bottom half of their roster.

That's the difference between these discussions. People worry about whether a player 'earns' his salary, which is redundant from a fans' perspective. The Draisaitl contract isn't restrictive towards the Oilers icing a competitive hockey team.

 

[belair]

lol. Whatever.

Depending on how the goalie market looks in two years' time it's not out of the realm of possibility. The Oilers would be wise not to get into Rask-type numbers with Tabot's next contract. That being said a lot can change in two years.

 

[PaPaDee]

Good, so it levels out some of that $10m the Bruins dropped on Beleskey and Backes over the past two seasons. They needed to save as much cap space per year as possible because they have a three year window and about $20m to build a defense and shore up the bottom half of their roster.

That's the difference between these discussions. People worry about whether a player 'earns' his salary, which is redundant from a fans' perspective. The Draisaitl contract isn't restrictive towards the Oilers icing a competitive hockey team.

It is restrictive if you assume Chia could've gotten Draisaitl's cap-hit to a number closer to what Pasta signed for. Adding an additional $2M in cap-usage further handcuffs our options going forward.

 

[McTrashBoat]

It is restrictive if you assume Chia could've gotten Draisaitl's cap-hit to a number closer to what Pasta signed for. Adding an additional $2M in cap-usage further handcuffs our options going forward.

well unfortunately Draisaitl is worth more than 6.5

 

[belair]

It is restrictive if you assume Chia could've gotten Draisaitl's cap-hit to a number closer to what Pasta signed for. Adding an additional $2M in cap-usage further handcuffs our options going forward.

You can also assume he added an additional $2m shedding himself of the Pouliot cap-hit as well. He 'freed' additional cap space by avoiding an albatross deal like Beleskey's. I'd much rather have my cap space tied up in a primary contributing player --even if it means he might be 'overpaid'--than have a bunch of it tied up in problem contracts and ageing and underachieving depth players.

And like Trashboat mentioned, you weren't signing Draisaitl at $6.5m.

 

[Weitz]

Strongly disagree.

Lucic had a good year for LA and was easily going to get 6mill on the market. A 7 year term only takes him to 35. It was rumored he was offered more money for less term but others. Lucic was a UFA as opposed to Conner and Leons RFA status.

Russell easily would have gotten 4 mill 4 years anywhere else. Probably more. Also only takes him 34 or 35.

I can't believe you can say this with a straight face. Guy can't get a contract till October the year before and somehow is going to get more than 4x4 on the market? It's not like everyone around the league thinks he had a great year last year.

 

[Weitz]

If we're just talking Chiarelli, the contracts he signed are Lucic, Klefbom, Sekera, McDavid, Draisaitl, Kassian, Russell, Talbot and a few others. That is a good mix of spending, and different "overpays" and "steals" and "fair". I put those in quotes because that's just our perception of them, and not what is true behind the scenes. Chiarelli is the same guy in all these situations, so does he sometimes feel like doing a good job and other times feels like doing a bad job? Of course not.

Fans are notoriously uninformed about all the nuance that goes into a contract, and I'm definitely including myself in that group. That's why I don't just assume a contract is good or bad based on my impression, but instead try to figure out why a contract is as high or low as it is.

Believe it or not, there is plenty of reason to believe that the Draisaitl contract is good value for the team, and even better than the Pastrnak's. Imo, the truth is probably that both are fair.

You have 1 steal and bunch of meh and overpays. Don't be silly.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

You have 1 steal and bunch of meh and overpays. Don't be silly.

That's a pretty bleak view of things.

 

[Weitz]

That's a pretty bleak view of things.

Care to elaborate?

Lucic - Too much money and term
Klefbom - Tracking to be a steal, probably by next summer, stay in average for now.
Sekera - Overpay
McDavid - Meh.
Draisaitl - Overpay
Kassian - meh
Russell - Overpay
Talbot - Assuming he keeps up last years work its a steal

The players help the team sure, but you can't look at any of the contract and be like "Gee Chia sure did well there.."

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Care to elaborate?

Lucic - Too much money and term
Klefbom - Tracking to be a steal, probably by next summer, stay in average for now.
Sekera - Overpay
McDavid - Meh.
Draisaitl - Overpay
Kassian - meh
Russell - Overpay
Talbot - Assuming he keeps up last years work its a steal

The players help the team sure, but you can't look at any of the contract and be like "Gee Chia sure did well there.."

Again, that's an extremely bleak view on the franchise. I mean if this is how you feel about this, this might not be the team for you.

 

[Weitz]

Again, that's an extremely bleak view on the franchise. I mean if this is how you feel about this, this might not be the team for you.

Heh, so because I have been a fan for 20+ years, and we just had the worst 10 years of pretty much any professional sports franchise ever, I should just be happy with everything?

I don't trust Chia to manage the cap. Nothing he has done here or in Boston has given me that confidence.

 

[Fourier]

Good, so it levels out some of that $10m the Bruins dropped on Beleskey and Backes over the past two seasons. They needed to save as much cap space per year as possible because they have a three year window and about $20m to build a defense and shore up the bottom half of their roster.

That's the difference between these discussions. People worry about whether a player 'earns' his salary, which is redundant from a fans' perspective. The Draisaitl contract isn't restrictive towards the Oilers icing a competitive hockey team.

I think in the short term the Draisaitl deal is a little restrictive. But the deal is signed and long term they should be able to manage quite well if they are smart.

Apples to apples if Pasta's deal was 8 years you would probably be looking at a low $7M figure, maybe $7.2M or so. To me this means that as a comparable Leon would be in the $7.5-7.8M range so I think that strictly on contracts Boston got the better deal. But they are close enough that I am happy that the Oilers have the guy I think is the better player locked up for a long tome.