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Ghost of jas
Unsatisfied
Hunter Gathers
The Crown
Brooklyn Rangers Fan
Change is good.
haveandare
Registered User
This seems to be a common problem on this board. People saying "make no mistake about it" or "I'm sure that.." or whatever variation, as if they're opinion is fact and mine is fiction because...why exactly? I'm always open to changing my mind, but saying "this is fact" before your opinion doesn't make it a fact, and it surely doesn't convince me that it's a fact.
irishlaxburger2
Registered User
It's not a numbers-to-numbers comparison though. I'm not comparing the monetary terms of each deal. Though if you really want to go that route, Drury deserved a larger percentage of the cap than Callahan ever did because Drury was a 65+ point scorer in three of his seasons in the NHL. He was also a 30+ goal scorer on two separate occasions. Callahan has NEVER done either.
But again, it's not a numbers-to-numbers comparison. It's about the principle of it. Chris Drury got a contract he didn't deserve because of "intangibles". The money he got was way more than he deserved compared to similar point scorers in the league. He got it because of intangibles. It ended up being a massive waste of money. There were also major concerns about his health given the way he played the game. He had injury concerns. Yet he got more years than most other teams would have been willing to give. He got more money than he deserved and he got more years than he deserved. Why? Supposed intangibles. It blew up in our faces.
The Callahan situation is extremely similar. He doesn't put up enough points to validate the money he wants - or even the money we've already offered. He's a $5 to $5.5M player. And just because Toronto overpaid for David Clarkson doesn't mean Callahan deserves the same from NY. That's not a contract that's pushing the market. That's a contract that's already a mistake and shouldn't be used as a bearing for other grinder contracts. But I digress. 7 years is way too many for Callahan due to his injury concerns. He's already missing double digit games per season. How many will he be missing 4+ years from now? Not to mention, his playoff performances in the past have been marred by nagging injuries he puts his body thru every year. This actually makes his situation *worse* than the Drury one. At least Drury had a few solid playoff performances to push his "intangible" narrative. Lastly, I think his type of game is getting less and less important in today's NHL. The Blackhawks have already proven that hits are perhaps the most overrated stats in the league.
I don't care if Callahan has Messier intangibles (he doesn't, but for argument's sake). He's not worth the money or years he wants. He's not even worth the money or years we've already offered. This would be a contract that would cripple us in the coming years, ala Drury.
At this point, I'd rather let him walk for no return than re-sign him.
Samuel Culper III
Mr. Woodhull...
NoQuitInNewMexico
Registered User
It has to be misdirection. We're not spending $36 million on Ryan Callahan...right? Please tell me we're not 
nyrpassion
Vetted.
jerseyjinx94
I jinx players.
How is a contract that would be 1/14 of the Cap on a 23 man roster a "crippling" contract?
I'm not seeing the logic. Drury's contract crippled our financial maneuverability because it was a higher percentage. Callahan's... in a $75-85 million cap, is not a crippling deal (at $6M).
I'm not saying he should get it, but it's apples and oranges. The rest of your post I agree, he would be getting paid for intangibles.
NYR Sting
Heart and Soul
And all of these are written in stone? Or could it have more to do with a new coach feeling more comfortable for now with the guys who weren't injured for parts of his first season with the team. I've seen enough hockey, and I know you have, to know that these units are modified all the time. Statistically, for example, Pouliot is no better on the PP this season than Callahan.
BP: 6 PP goals, 7 PP points, 103 PP minutes
RC: 4 PP goals, 7 PP points, 75 PP minutes
-Callahan is second behind Richards in even strength time on ice among forwards per game.
-Dom Moore is the #2 penalty killer, killing all of 30 seconds more per game than Callahan.
-He averages pretty much just as many points per game this season as Kreider, Stepan, and Brassard.
-He leads all forwards on the team in blocked shots despite missing 17 games.
-He leads all forwards on the team in hits despite missing 17 games.
-Only MZA and Stepan have better takeaway/giveaway ratios than Callahan, and just barely.
This talk of a diminished role is, IMO, largely overblown.
Samuel Culper III
Mr. Woodhull...
May be somewhat overblown now, but it will inevitably continue to diminish in the immediate seasons as Miller/Fasth develop and Cally ages. He has not had a particularly strong season and is simply no longer an irreplaceable player, especially not at the price he's asking. Giving him 6x6 is simply a mistake.
NoQuitInNewMexico
Registered User
Even great teams overpay guys who bring them value so that's whatever, but with Callahan and Richards locked up on super-volatile deals, the prospect pipeline looking really weak and Zuccarello getting fair value, the balance of overpayment to underpayment can put us in a bad place.
jerseyjinx94
I jinx players.
DudMan28
Registered User
- Jan 30, 2013
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Amazing Kreiderman
Registered User
- Apr 11, 2011
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It is still way to much for a 3rd line winger. Captain or not, it's too much money. We have other players to represent the team as the captain (Girardi, McDonagh, Staal) and I would prefer to spend that money on Stastny if we have to spend it on a player. Just trade him plus extra assets for MSL. We can trade MSL later on if we want to get rid of him
NoQuitInNewMexico
Registered User
We'd have to bring in a sidegrade like Paul Stastny for even more money (but on a safer deal). I want that to happen anyway, I don't think we have a lot of choice. However, if we're committing huge money and term into Ryan Callahan so that he can be marginally better than JT Miller and no one will want to trade for him after we sign that deal (they won't), we'll have less room to fit in more important players.
irishlaxburger2
Registered User
This is what I was getting at with the "crippling" comment. Perhaps that was a bit dramatic on my part. That contract alone won't cripple us. But when added to other bad contracts, things get hairy. And it will likely be the one of the worst, if not the worst, contracts in that group.
Again, "crippling" may have been a bad word for it. "Hampering" is probably better.
Still do not want Callahan at 6 x 6. Too much money and term for a player whose play will seemingly degrade quicker than the average player (and isn't elite to begin with).
irishlaxburger2
Registered User
Exactly. As much as I dislike Richards' contract, he's still currently one point away from being our leading scorer. And he plays a position that gets a premium in this league. If we buy him out, where do we go from there? How do we replace him? That uncertainty scares me. Mostly due to Sather's UFA past. There's no guarantee the next guy's contract to production ratio is any better.
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