Trade Proposals

Discussion in 'OHL' started by LDN, Oct 29, 2017.

  1. youngblood10

    youngblood10 Registered User

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    Such a true statement. No team is going to recoup several years worth of picks with in a season, gutting the team in the process. Maybe in a video game but in reality a team in Windsor's position will move a commodity or two. Get a few picks for this up coming draft, perhaps the next and bank a pick or two for down the road. Collecting a few playoff gates.
    I think Windsor's management recognizes what it takes to win, this going for it talk isn't reality based.
    Now back to fantasy land.
     
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  2. bobber

    bobber Registered User

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    The thing most miss when discussing trades on here is they want an arm and leg for the players on their squad yet want the hypothetical trading partners best young prospects that could be just as valuable. Plus asking for a ton of picks. Some GMs get sucked into these types of games. This is why some franchises spin their wheels for years.
     
  3. cfaub

    cfaub Registered User

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    While most talk on here is pure speculation it is speculation based on the last 14 or so years of what these organizations have done, "values" always going upwards etc.

    Personally, would love to see the league become more focused on development and competition across the board instead of trying to create a couple of "super" teams every year.

    That would require quite a bit of change though that I doubt these organizations would have the stomach for. Fans would probably have a tough time getting used to it as well.
     
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  4. RayzorIsDull

    RayzorIsDull Registered User

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    I don't believe that to be true you can recoup several years of picks if you're truly committed to the process and not just dipping your toes in the water. Put it in perspective there's no guarantee guys like Brown and Day would want to be moved. You can hope they lift their no trade clause but still.. This is a top heavy team with lots of veteran players, oldest team in their division. I don't disagree about hanging onto Vilardi the guy has played in 37 games over the past 1.5 years. Unless a team is willing to take a leap and believe he can stay healthy he has to show it first. In the case of DiPietro people talk about Baier but he's the same age he can't develop at all if DiPietro is here. With an older team the team isn't in a position to make a run with DiPietro around. Their best chance to win a playoff series was last year against London. DiPietro helping a team win a playoff series most likely comes in another uniform. Right now the Spits are closer to being a 7th seed than a top 2 or 3 seed. So yes whoever says going for it is fantasy land talk. It's not like the organization hasn't changed course before eg 2011.
     
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  5. RayzorIsDull

    RayzorIsDull Registered User

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    Every fan overrates their own players that much is true.
     
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  6. youngblood10

    youngblood10 Registered User

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    Have to agree to disagree.
     
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  7. OMG67

    OMG67 Registered User

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    Generally speaking, trade values have been set by the market over the last few seasons. Every year it seems the value goes up, not down.

    A 19 year old impact skater, especially one that represented Canada or the USA at the World Juniors, will normally go for four 2nds and three 3rds OR will go for the 16 year old first round pick and a couple other picks or middling players. This has been well established. If that player is an 18 year old then that is the same but you will need to add an additional couple conditional 2nds.

    So, the Konecny deal with Sarnia where Travis was an 18 year old is a sample. All three of the deals last year involving Windsor, London, and Erie at the deadline show strong examples of pick based compensation.

    The area that doesn’t get touched on as much is goaltending. We saw what Dubai’s paid for a goaltender but since then there has not been a top flight goalie become available. So that compensation is tougher to predict so it then becomes more a situation of a bidding war. You will need a few teams all wanting the player to get the price up.

    We can toss names around as fans and usually the packages discussed here are relatively within the guidelines established. Of course there will always be a handful of players used in these trades that have fans that value them higher or lower but mostly, the proposals are reasonable.

    I know whenever I have made predictions regarding my 67’s I have been pretty much bang on. I called the Konecny deal almost precisely. Same with he Rymsha deal. Same with all the little itty bitty deals. IT really isn’t all that hard to get it right if you are paying attention.
     
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  8. RayzorIsDull

    RayzorIsDull Registered User

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  9. OHLTG

    OHLTG Registered User

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    The difference between DiPietro and Ned is that in 2015-16, Ned was a half-season away from his OA year. DiPietro has a year-and-a-half before his OA season. This should make DiPietro's value that much greater.
     
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  10. RayzorIsDull

    RayzorIsDull Registered User

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    Nedeljkovic never played an OA season in the OHL. Neither will DiPietro. Nedeljkovic playing 30 games, Wesley playing 23 games for that half of the season is probably the same for what DiPietro would fetch. Remember we are talking about a goalie here, goalies can't play every game. If you waited until after the deadline DiPietro probably plays 20-25 games with ????? He returns next year and plays another 20-25 games before that team moves him if they're rebuilding. The value is actually pretty similar. Teams aren't willing to give up a lot of assets for a goalie. DiPietro is a very good goalie. Troy Timpano was the goalie for Erie winning the OHL title. Barrie goes out and acquires Leo Lazarev for a conditional 12th rounder in 2020 and he has been very good for Barrie. This is the exact reason why if you can get assets for a guy like DiPietro you do it now and don't wait. Look how Raaymakers has solidified London for a 2nd in 2019, 2nd in 2023. He quite possibly could return next year. DiPietro is a depreciating asset in Windsor right now, every game he plays for Windsor is a game he doesn't play for a possible contender.
     
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  11. OHLTG

    OHLTG Registered User

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    I realize OA seasons aren't involved but my comment was that DiPietro has a full season more left UNTIL his OA than Ned did. Thus, the value is higher. Who says if Windsor trades him now, he'll be dealt again before the next deadline? For all we know, the team could want him to stick around next season to teach a younger goaltender, similar to what he's done with Baier this season. I'd also argue that DiPietro is a level higher than Raaymakers and Timpano, and certainly higher than Lazarev. If we can deal DiPietro sooner, for a fair value, you do it. However, if you don't get the value you want, you keep him and see what happens.
     
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  12. RayzorIsDull

    RayzorIsDull Registered User

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    You totally missed the point. Why would teams pony up large for DiPietro when there is proof goalies that would cost less can be just as valuable and perform at a high level?
     
  13. Purple Phart

    Purple Phart Registered User

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    There's a bit of danger in Windsor being so reliant on their goalie and playing him so much. There's always that possibility of "burn-out", and should that occur, his game goes into the dumpster, and his value to any contender goes with it. I know that he's your most significant asset, and should be protected against that possibility. That's what back-ups are for. If your back-up is being under utilized, you do run that risk of burning out your most valuable trading chip.

    Some goaltenders do thrive on plenty of minutes, but there's only so much focus they can bring to bear on a sustained basis. Cross that threshhold, and it can be extremely tough to recover and get their game back to where it was. Confidence is very fragile, and overwork without a break or rest can lead to goals being scored that ordinarily would have been routine saves. If that starts happening, the player begins to have doubts, and that feeds a lack of confidence. Slumps are a fact of life among those who stop pucks, with even the pros being suceptable to them.
     
  14. OHLTG

    OHLTG Registered User

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    The goaltenders you mentioned - Timpano, Raaymakers, and Lazarev - aren't on DiPietro's level. Timpano was a good goaltender but he had an outstanding team in front of him. His numbers were average. Raaymakers is good, probably better than Timpano, but not on DiPietro's level. Lazarev is good but certainly not on DiPietro's level. Let's not forget that last year it was widely known that a deal involving McNiven PLUS picks was offered for DiPietro. It's been discussed on here, too. If DiPietro is worth that much before his Memorial Cup experience, which does count for something, what would the price be now? It's greater than Raaymakers, greater than Timpano, and greater than Lazarev. DiPietro is in his own class right now. Yes, you could get other goaltenders for a lesser price that perform admirably. You could also get one of the best in the league, period, who comes with Memorial Cup experience, for the right price. Sometimes, ponying up isn't a bad thing.
     
  15. RayzorIsDull

    RayzorIsDull Registered User

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    You still missed the point again. Bye
     
  16. OHLTG

    OHLTG Registered User

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    I'm kind of waiting for the shoe to drop in Windsor. It feels like it's just a matter of time.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017 at 7:01 PM
  17. LDN

    LDN Registered User

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    To Sarnia: Cliff Pu, Max Jones
    To London: Jamison Rees, three 2nds and two 3rds
     
  18. LDN

    LDN Registered User

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    What teams need OA's??? London has a few to spare
     
  19. count35

    count35 Registered User

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  20. OMG67

    OMG67 Registered User

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    That’s probably pretty accurate based on previous deals but it is tough to cough up for two star players. I can see Sarnia parting with the picks for one player but I think they’d really need to give thought to giving up their first rounder. Usually the first rounder picked in the top 10 is reserved for super stars in return. I don’t see Jones or Pu in that category.
     
  21. LDN

    LDN Registered User

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    Carbonara for a 3rd
     
  22. 4 Bobby ORR

    4 Bobby ORR Registered User

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    Jack Campbell acquired from Windsor – Soo Greyhounds
    "Windsor receives players Mackenzie Braid and Patrick Sieloff along with six draft choices: Kingston’s 3rd in 2012, Windsor’s 2nd in 2013, Erie’s 3rd in 2013, Owen Sound’s 2nd in 2014, Saginaw’s 2nd in 2014, Sault Ste. Marie’s 2nd in 2015 and Sault Ste. Marie’s 15th in 2016 (conditional)."

    If DiPietro is traded :dm:, this is what GM's should start with before WR picks up the phone. Then they can meet somewhere in between. Having watched DiPietro, his greatest asset is his reaction time and that is something that can't be taught- either you have it or you don't and rarely do you see him give up on a play. He is a world class goaltender at this level. His size would be his only knock at the next level but personally I think he will overcome that.
     
  23. road warrior

    road warrior Registered User

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    What all these Windsor fans proposals about DiPietro are forgetting is . . . . you need a trading partner who needs a goalie.

    Baring an injury, only 1 top team needs a starter right now – Owen Sound.
    And they have another very good option available in Helvig who’s going to cost much less than DiPietro.

    With that kind of goalie market, you’re not going to get close to full value for DiPietro.

    Now if there’s a significant injury to Fazio, or Wells etc then the situation changes.
    But until then . . . . keep dreaming.
     
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  24. 4 Bobby ORR

    4 Bobby ORR Registered User

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    With the way Kingston is playing, Helvig may not be available. They are only 3 points from leading their conference. They are riding Helvig now and the BUG needs games if they are looking to trade him. So unless they start dropping drastically, I personally think Helvig stays put. OS needs to address their situation now. DD will get a good look on Thursday.
     
  25. road warrior

    road warrior Registered User

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    Sarnia don't need any more forwards / scoring. They need 2 big tough defensemen. And they don’t have to be major world junior studs – they just need to be solid stay at home defense who can knock kids off the puck, take control and pass / move the biscuit out of their end.

    Someone like DiCarlo in Oshawa would be the prototype for what I mean, and he wouldn’t cost much, the big BUT is he’s an overager and Sarnia already has 3 pretty good 20 yo’s.

    Middleton, Day & Sambrooke are the names that keep coming up for both Sarnia & the Pete’s (who need the same thing) but all 3 might be too expensive for the Sting – especially when they need 2 new D.

    The market for top 19 yo defense may get flooded at the deadline with people like Haugue, Dineen, Candella, Stillman, Moverare all possibly available, depending on how their teams sit. So the Sting are better off waiting until nearer the deadline to get what they need.
     

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