Trade Proposals and Free Agency Thread - 2017 Edition Pt. IV

[darrylsittler27]

If Mathews is 100 percent, then adding Karlsson or Doughty at no cost to the lineup other than a Gardiner gives us a chance to win the cup , if our goaltending is stellar. Can't see it, next year we get closer. Asset management unless you smell a cup.

 

[dubplatepressure]

If Mathews is 100 percent, then adding Karlsson or Doughty at no cost to the lineup other than a Gardiner gives us a chance to win the cup , if our goaltending is stellar. Can't see it, next year we get closer. Asset management unless you smell a cup.

So much this. Always thought until you get to the final-4, you should still be in asset management mode. Exceptions are if you reached the quarters or something and go out in 7, and carry the same team forward, but that's basically the bar I'm circling around.

 

[Trapper]

So much this. Always thought until you get to the final-4, you should still be in asset management mode. Exceptions are if you reached the quarters or something and go out in 7, and carry the same team forward, but that's basically the bar I'm circling around.

I think at the very least you need to establish a sample size.
What is this current teams sample size to indicate contender?
Top 10 in the league every year?
Making the playoffs every year?
A team that has accumulated playoff experience? Battles through some hard fought rounds?

 

[ToneDog]

Komarov isn't a agitator anymore either, he is just going through the motions now

I hear you. I thought Leo was done before the season started but some argued that we was elite defensively. If he still is, that warrants being in the line up over Kappy. Given he will be gone next year I personally would go with Kappy.

 

[ToneDog]

As Walshy said, Komarov isn't an agitator anymore. And Polak's PK ability is easily offset by the guaranteed 2+ PIM he gets every game.

Although I agree with you on trading JVR, isn't getting a top 2 dman = past semi's only one player away from it?

I'll agree that Leo is not the agitator that he once was but who else other than Kadri or Martin is better ? He plays cause he fills a hole but that hole is closing on him.

 

[Barilko14]

I found something Ken Holland said on Leafs Lunch today interesting.

Said Datsyuk and Zetterberg didn't become dominate players until they were around 25. Said they weren't those guys at 20 or 21. He was comparing them to Larkin, but the same could be applied to Marner and Nylander.
Everyone in here overreacting to this "nylander/babcock" fued has to realize this is going to be a long road.
One 10 game stretch doesn't signal the end of what will hopefully be a great 10+ year relationship.
There is going to be a lot more molding and lessons along the way, these guys are not finished products.
I think they both have it in them to be great 200 ft players, and I'm hoping our coaching staff can mold them into that.

 

[meefer]

I found something Ken Holland said on Leafs Lunch today interesting.

Said Datsyuk and Zetterberg didn't become dominate players until they were around 25. Said they weren't those guys at 20 or 21. He was comparing them to Larkin, but the same could be applied to Marner and Nylander.
Everyone in here overreacting to this "nylander/babcock" fued has to realize this is going to be a long road.
One 10 game stretch doesn't signal the end of what will hopefully be a great 10+ year relationship.
There is going to be a lot more molding and lessons along the way, these guys are not finished products.
I think they both have it in them to be great 200 ft players, and I'm hoping our coaching staff can mold them into that.

How many players are the same at 21 as who they become at 25? It's a very small group and you're very correct in believing there is more for these two to learn. We've seen how talented they are, and they are very talented. Now we're seeing them going through the process of playing against teams who also know what they can do, are playing them much 'harder'. As well, Babs is asking them to be more accountable and they are struggling a bit because of these changes. Give them time, they'll work it out.

As to JVR, Bozak and Komorav...get me a 1st, 2 2nds and a 3rd or a quality D prospect, 2 2nds and a 3rd and it's bye bye fellas, thanks for everything. Not to crap on any of them, but we know who they are, what their ages are and we have an idea as to their chances of re-engineering their games at this stage of their careers. I wouldn't resign one of them and good luck to them all.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

How many players are the same at 21 as who they become at 25? It's a very small group and you're very correct in believing there is more for these two to learn. We've seen how talented they are, and they are very talented. Now we're seeing them going through the process of playing against teams who also know what they can do, are playing them much 'harder'. As well, Babs is asking them to be more accountable and they are struggling a bit because of these changes. Give them time, they'll work it out.

As to JVR, Bozak and Komorav...get me a 1st, 2 2nds and a 3rd or a quality D prospect, 2 2nds and a 3rd and it's bye bye fellas, thanks for everything. Not to crap on any of them, but we know who they are, what their ages are and we have an idea as to their chances of re-engineering their games at this stage of their careers. I wouldn't resign one of them and good luck to them all.

There is still time to move JvR, Bozak and Komarov, even if this team is competing. All depends on the return of course, but I can see us going hybrid.

 

[Kiwi]

There is still time to move JvR, Bozak and Komarov, even if this team is competing. All depends on the return of course, but I can see us going hybrid.

There's time but unless we completely fall apart were not going to sell at the TDL

I think it's the wrong thing to do but it looks like they believe they can win this season

 

[showtime8]

There is still time to move JvR, Bozak and Komarov, even if this team is competing. All depends on the return of course, but I can see us going hybrid.

Do you mean going hybrid with getting back guys that are of similar ability, but different contract status?
As an example (and no this is not a true trade proposal) trade Bozak to Colorado for Colin Wilson? Relatively close in age and contract cap.

 

[realgoodleafs]

That Hannifin for Nylander proposal on the trade boards makes a lot of sense for both teams. Our offense doesn't look as nice but it's a lot easier to draft a scoring winger later in the first than a stud defenceman.

 

[SprDaVE]

That Hannifin for Nylander proposal on the trade boards makes a lot of sense for both teams. Our offense doesn't look as nice but it's a lot easier to draft a scoring winger later in the first than a stud defenceman.

Problem here is that Hanifin hasn't exactly been that great. Not exactly shinning defensively with no short-handed time played either. His offensive game has been pretty solid though.

Nylander is struggling as well but let's not forget his shooting percentage, his usage on the fourth line for awhile. Just a few months ago he was named WC MVP and dominated. Nylander also can shift to center, which is a big bonus for your lineup versatility, no matter if he ends up as a winger for the majority of his career.

We should be adding to our core of players, not going sideways. I'm not liking what I see from Hanifin enough to trade him for a top line forward and could very well be a bad trade that doesn't really fix anything.

 

[MR4]

That Hannifin for Nylander proposal on the trade boards makes a lot of sense for both teams. Our offense doesn't look as nice but it's a lot easier to draft a scoring winger later in the first than a stud defenceman.

Hanifin is a level or two below Nylander. A lot easier to draft a dman in the late first/2nd than a top notch centre btw.

 

[New Liskeard]

Teams way too Jekyll and Hyde. I think it's foolish to try and win this year while losing on assets like JVR/Komarov/Bozak. The only big loss in those 3 players is JVR. It's hefty but we may be surprised by Kappy or Leivo, if even that means 45pts pace.

Be smart Lou!

Not sure why posters bring up loosing assets. For every asset they "lost" they signed Rosen, Borgman Zaitsev and looks like another right handed Russian D next year, all that cost nothing but a contract spot. Strange why this is omitted.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Funny but all those assets are 4 to 8 Dmen
We still have holes and none of those are worth a Jvr. We may have Liljegren and Dermott as top 4 Dmen but upfront nothing to replace Jvr. In this draft I'm looking at a mid first from the West for him. Some firsts are ready quickly.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Not sure why posters bring up loosing assets. For every asset they "lost" they signed Rosen, Borgman Zaitsev and looks like another right handed Russian D next year, all that cost nothing but a contract spot. Strange why this is omitted.

That's great but outside of Borg and Zaitsev, you may have something, you may have nothing. Doesn't justify letting guys walk for nothing because they somehow think this is a go for it year. Maybe they don't....I hope they don't

 

[Menzinger]

That's great but outside of Borg and Zaitsev, you may have something, you may have nothing. Doesn't justify letting guys walk for nothing because they somehow think this is a go for it year. Maybe they don't....I hope they don't

Fair point.

Definitely good to add free assets like Zaitsev but just because you do that doesn’t suddenly mean it’s fine to lose all UFAs for nothing. There are always costs to every decision

 

[ShaneFalco]

If you think about it too, Babcock wouldn't be trying to teach the young guys to play better defensively (if that's in fact what he's doing) if this was a 'go for it' year. Doesn't make any sense

 

[MR4]

Not sure why posters bring up loosing assets. For every asset they "lost" they signed Rosen, Borgman Zaitsev and looks like another right handed Russian D next year, all that cost nothing but a contract spot. Strange why this is omitted.

Because they're independent decisions. If you won 25k on a scratch, and knew your car worth 30k is gonna blow up in a year and be worth nothing, are you just gonna let the car die out or sell it and get another car that's gonna be there for the next 10 years?

JVR would definitely get a 1st +, Komarov & Bozak combined gets us at least 2 2nds. Here's a list from 16-60 in the 2010 draft that turned into top 6/4 NHLers (so it's excluded even depth 3rd line/pair types that are still important so you don't have to play guys like Polak) : Tarasenko, Bjudstad, Coyle, Nelson, Kuznetzov, Pysyk, Faulk, Toffoli. So we have a small chance at getting a big core piece for the next 7 years, while having a probable chance of getting good 3rd line/pair cheap guys to replace our guys that will price them out of our team. I think that having those chances on 3 draft picks in that range will help us win a Cup in the next 10 years, more than keeping our UFAs this year will in the same timeline. And that ignores probably getting another decent prospect or 2 in the trades.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Marleau may have been signed to help lessen the loss of Jvr and Bozak. That leaves only one spot to fill with a UFA I.e Neal, Nash. The media wants us to sell the farm prematurely, not most fans who would welcome 2 rounds. In my mind this is the last yr of the build, making us sellers. No way Komorov gets a 2nd in this draft but Bozak could. We won't sell all 3.

 

[Menzinger]

Considering they tri d to trade JVR in the summer, and the fact that their biggest move in free agency was signing a vet Lw, I’d say management is probably comfortable moving JVR though not sure they’d want futures in return (for better or for worse)

 

[Trapper]

If you think about it too, Babcock wouldn't be trying to teach the young guys to play better defensively (if that's in fact what he's doing) if this was a 'go for it' year. Doesn't make any sense

It's black and white for a lot of people here.
We have Matthews,Marner,Nylander, we are contenders. There's isn't anything else. The team loses some games, we suck, Babcock sucks, Hyman sucks.
It's ok to be in the middle and not finished yet. I bet 3 years ago if we had Barkov,Huberdeau,Ekblad, we'd be called contenders here. Florida probably isn't even making the playoffs. It takes time to build a team. It's more than but hey, we have Marner,Nylander. Well so do other teams. You have to build chemistry and fight the battles together. You have to learn to play playoff hockey. You need balance between skill and heavy. Same with the notion that if we don't win on the ELCs we are done. Why? Good cap management and strong prospects at all positions on the horizon are required.
We need to put the future in their proper positions and keep drafting players that can support.

 

[hockeynorth]

I tend to believe that Babs would not hesitate to replace Polak and Leo if he had suitable replacements.

...he does though, carrick is still around and kappy is too

 

[darrylsittler27]

Except we have support galore if you but look.We still need one or two high quality prospects. Depth can always be traded for.

 

[MR4]

...he does though, carrick is still around and kappy is too

Yep. It's literally just them being real gud vets that he has this moral code that you can't demote vets.