Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread

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Ohashi_Jouzu*

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Apr 2, 2007
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Oh please...

The poster said that Weber was 6th in Norris voting, which is a fact. At no point did he make any comparisons between Weber and Burns.

If I pointed out that Brad Marchand was 6th in scoring this past year, would you ridicule me for comparing him to Connor McDavid?

Of course he would. :laugh:

Placing in the top 10 of any category/list/award vote is significant, unless there's an agenda at hand, and then it's the magical Ricky Bobby treatment where all of a sudden if you're not first you're last. Consistently inconsistently applied logic. :laugh:
 

CauZuki

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Feb 19, 2008
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Of course he would. :laugh:

Placing in the top 10 of any category/list/award vote is significant, unless there's an agenda at hand, and then it's the magical Ricky Bobby treatment where all of a sudden if you're not first you're last. Consistently inconsistently applied logic. :laugh:

So now that it fits our narrative , award voting is important?

I seem to remember the fact that our beloved GM had 0 votes for best GM and David Poile winning the award was completely dismissed as inconsequential.

Weber is a fine D-man either way , my major concern is that the team will never be good enough to compete within the good years he has left. I've yet to see a convincing argument that demonstrates what our plan will be to replace Price/Weber/Pacioretty if we don't win within the next 3-5 years.
I don't hate a core of Galchenyuk/Drouin/Lekhonen/Gallagher/Danault but those are some glaring holes when discussing long term vision.
 

Ohashi_Jouzu*

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Apr 2, 2007
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So now that it fits our narrative , award voting is important?

"Now"? Top 10 goal scoring seasons, top 10 point scoring seasons, top 10 award voting seasons, etc... these have always been relevant in assessing the success of a player's career. Always. Especially when a pattern of consistency/repeated excellence is evident. Except when agendas selectively call for ignoring them, of course.
 

BaseballCoach

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Dec 15, 2006
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So now that it fits our narrative , award voting is important?

I seem to remember the fact that our beloved GM had 0 votes for best GM and David Poile winning the award was completely dismissed as inconsequential.

Weber is a fine D-man either way , my major concern is that the team will never be good enough to compete within the good years he has left. I've yet to see a convincing argument that demonstrates what our plan will be to replace Price/Weber/Pacioretty if we don't win within the next 3-5 years.
I don't hate a core of Galchenyuk/Drouin/Lekhonen/Gallagher/Danault but those are some glaring holes when discussing long term vision.

The Weber trade was not bad per se, but we have holes in the roster and a GM that is badly flawed and should probably be replaced.
 

BaseballCoach

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So now that it fits our narrative , award voting is important?

I seem to remember the fact that our beloved GM had 0 votes for best GM and David Poile winning the award was completely dismissed as inconsequential.

I do think voting for a player at a position is more reliable on an ongoing basis than GM voting, but even having said that, I would still say that it makes sense that the Habs GM got no votes for GM of the Year, He's not very good!
 

CauZuki

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Feb 19, 2008
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The Weber trade was not bad per se, but we have holes in the roster and a GM that is badly flawed and should probably be replaced.

I have little to no issues with the trade at face value. While there is no denying we gave up the younger asset with a playing style that suits the new NHL better(imo), however the player we got back is also good and has many intangibles (I know it's a cliche but it rings true) and can help us compete (in the short term). What really puzzles me is that this move was obviously made to win now. As nobody will convince me that we will be competing for the next 10 years with Weber well into his late 30's. If the idea is to win now , how can we afford to let strong UFA's walk away while making trades for plugs at the trade deadline. The vision is murky , it's almost a hybrid of rebuilding through the draft (apparently not with our top 10 picks :sarcasm: ) and keeping the team competitive enough to make the playoffs but never get those top picks that are needed for success. We are about to end up like San Jose where we are very competitive for many years , never end up winning anything only to end up with a mediocre prospect pool , not an enviable situation to be in. Hopefully I end up being pleasantly surprised and the Habs make a decent playoff run due to chemistry and young guns stepping up. Our team is not bad by any means but I just don't see how we can contend knowing that the likes of Toronto/Philly/Carolina are trending up and we have nothing in the system to match their star depth.
 
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LaP

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I have little to no issues with the trade at face value. While there is no denying we gave up the younger asset with a playing style that suits the new NHL better(imo), however the player we got back has many intangibles (I know it's a cliche but it rings true) and can help us compete. What really puzzles me is that this move was made to win now. As nobody will convince me that we will be competing for the next 10 years with Weber well into his late 30's. If the idea is to win now , how can we afford to let strong UFA's walk away while making trades for plugs at the trade deadline. The vision is murky , it's almost a hybrid of rebuilding through the draft (apparently not with our top 10 picks :sarcasm: ) and keeping the team competitive enough to never rebuild properly through the draft. We are about to end up like San Jose where we are very competitive for many years , never end up winning anything only to end up with a mediocre prospect pool. Not an enviable situation to be in. Hopefully I end up being pleasantly surprised and the Habs make a decent playoff run due to chemistry and young guns stepping up.

Chemistry can't save us. We have played this card for way too long with DD and Patch.

But young players could save us. Drouin and AG remains 3rd overall picks who have shown great flashes. They could both blossom into elite players (C and W) this season. It's in the realm of possibilities. If they do then our top 6 is good and we are only missing a LHD to compete. I don't think it's wishful thinking. The habs being the habs it will not happen (we simply can't catch a break) but who knows?
 

Habs Halifax

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Oilers Trade:
- RNH (C)
- Nurse (LD)

Habs Trade:
- Gallagher (RW depth needed and on a great AAV)
- Juulsen (RD)
- 2018 2nd (Deep Draft)
- Davidson (Helps the Oilers this season with the lost of Nurse)
- Pleky (Perfect #3C for the Oilers and no risk with one year left)

Address Both the Oilers and Habs needs IMO.

New Line-up:
Patch / Galchenyuk / Hemsky
Lehkonen / RNH / Drouin
Hudon / Danault / Byron
Holland / Mitchell / Shaw

Martinsen, DLR

Nurse / Weber
Alzner / Petry
Schlemko / Benn

Davidson / Streit

$10M+ in cap space too!
 
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BaseballCoach

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Dec 15, 2006
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Oilers Trade:
- RNH (C)
- Nurse (LD)

Habs Trade:
- Gallagher (RW depth needed and on a great AAV)
- Juulsen (RD)
- 2018 2nd (Deep Draft)
- Davidson (Helps the Oilers this season with the lost of Nurse)
- Pleky (Perfect #3C for the Oilers and no risk with one year left)

Address Both the Oilers and Habs needs IMO.

Patch / Galchenyuk / Hemsky
Lehkonen / RNH / Drouin
Hudon / Danault / Byron
Holland / Mitchell / Shaw

Martinsen, DLR

Nurse / Weber
Alzner / Petry
Schlemko / Benn

Davidson / Streit

Habs may have to take Fayne for the year. No biggie.
 

CauZuki

Registered User
Feb 19, 2008
12,289
12,110
Oilers Trade:
- RNH (C)
- Nurse (LD)

Habs Trade:
- Gallagher (RW depth needed and on a great AAV)
- Juulsen (RD)
- 2018 2nd (Deep Draft)
- Davidson (Helps the Oilers this season with the lost of Nurse)
- Pleky (Perfect #3C for the Oilers and no risk with one year left)

Address Both the Oilers and Habs needs IMO.

New Line-up:
Patch / Galchenyuk / Hemsky
Lehkonen / RNH / Drouin
Hudon / Danault / Byron
Holland / Mitchell / Shaw

Martinsen, DLR

Nurse / Weber
Alzner / Petry
Schlemko / Benn

Davidson / Streit

$10M+ in cap space too!

Over-complicated trades rarely happen.

1 for 1 deals with a small add-on for value seem to be the new standard.

I would be happy with :

Gallagher
Mete
2nd 2018

for

RNH

Also there is no way we are getting Nurse , he is one of their best defensive pieces.
 

Frozenice

No Reverse Gear
Jan 1, 2010
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Oilers Trade:
- RNH (C)
- Nurse (LD)

Habs Trade:
- Gallagher (RW depth needed and on a great AAV)
- Juulsen (RD)
- 2018 2nd (Deep Draft)
- Davidson (Helps the Oilers this season with the lost of Nurse)
- Pleky (Perfect #3C for the Oilers and no risk with one year left)

Address Both the Oilers and Habs needs IMO.

I can't see the Oilers going for that, not nearly enough going back, imo.
 

lamp9post

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Jan 28, 2007
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I'd say you're doing a good job yourself. :sarcasm: I kid, I kid.

Saying Weber was 6th as if it meant something meaningful is pretty silly. It doesn't hold weight when the winner has 1337 more votes than him. That's an exponentially larger gap than the 15 points separating Marchand from McDavid. To put it in perspective he's closer to 1 vote Dimitry Orlov than the guy just 5 spots ahead. He's not even close to half the votes of 4th place Keith. The comparison doesn't work here.

The winner didn't have 1337 more votes than Weber, he had 1337 more points based on votes. Each voter nominates who they believe to be the top performing defensemen over the course of the season in ranked order. The fact that Weber finished 6th in voting means that a number of voters considered him to be a top 5 defenseman - 45 as a matter of fact. That is what it means to be 6th in Norris voting - no more, no less.

It has nothing to do with how close he was to the winner - I don't understand understand why this is repeatedly brought up. Burns clearly had a better season than Weber, of course he's going to get a bunch of 1st place votes which are worth exponentially more points than top-5 votes. That is the feature of Norris voting - of course there will be a huge gap in points between 1st and 6th. Bringing up the fact that Orlov somehow managed a single top-5 vote is meaningless.

The fact that you think there is bigger difference between Burns and Weber than there is between McDavid and Marchand says a lot.
 

Milhouse40

Registered User
Aug 19, 2010
22,058
24,580
Oilers Trade:
- RNH (C)
- Nurse (LD)

Habs Trade:
- Gallagher (RW depth needed and on a great AAV)
- Juulsen (RD)
- 2018 2nd (Deep Draft)
- Davidson (Helps the Oilers this season with the lost of Nurse)
- Pleky (Perfect #3C for the Oilers and no risk with one year left)

Address Both the Oilers and Habs needs IMO.

New Line-up:
Patch / Galchenyuk / Hemsky
Lehkonen / RNH / Drouin
Hudon / Danault / Byron
Holland / Mitchell / Shaw

Martinsen, DLR

Nurse / Weber
Alzner / Petry
Schlemko / Benn

Davidson / Streit

$10M+ in cap space too!

I actually thought a lot about getting both RNH and Nurse together.
But your offer is way way way too low, Gallagher and a bunch of spare parts + a cap dump won't cut it.
 

Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
Jul 11, 2016
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I can't see the Oilers going for that, not nearly enough going back, imo.

You must remember, the Oilers need cap space for next year when they have to re-sign Nurse, Strome and others when McDavid's contract kicks in. This trade address their needs today and in the future. Evaluate it further. It's on the main board and it was perceived well by some Oilers Fans.

- RNH = Gallagher, Pleky

- Nurse = Juulsen, Davidson, 2nd
 

Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
Jul 11, 2016
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I actually thought a lot about getting both RNH and Nurse together.
But your offer is way way way too low, Gallagher and a bunch of spare parts + a cap dump won't cut it.

Juulsen, 2018 2nd, Davidson, Pleky for one year as their 3C are not spare parts. Oilers need cap space and depth on RD. This would work for them today and in the future.
 

lamp9post

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Jan 28, 2007
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Here is a list of players who finished exactly 6th in Norris voting over the past ten years:

Weber
Klingberg
Giordano
Doughty
Kieth
Girardi (lol)
Kris Letang
Dan Boyle
Kieth/Markov (tie)
Markov

Yup, just a crapshoot of average defensemen on that list.
 

Ohashi_Jouzu*

Registered User
Apr 2, 2007
30,332
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Halifax
Here is a list of players who finished exactly 6th in Norris voting over the past ten years:

Weber
Klingberg
Giordano
Doughty
Kieth
Girardi (lol)
Kris Letang
Dan Boyle
Kieth/Markov (tie)
Markov

Yup, just a crapshoot of average defensemen on that list.

I know, right? :laugh:
 

LaP

Registered User
Jun 27, 2012
24,281
17,382
Quebec City, Canada
Here is a list of players who finished exactly 6th in Norris voting over the past ten years:

Weber
Klingberg
Giordano
Doughty
Kieth
Girardi (lol)
Kris Letang
Dan Boyle
Kieth/Markov (tie)
Markov

Yup, just a crapshoot of average defensemen on that list.

Wait what Dan m***** f***** Girardi finished 6th in norris voting? God i knew his reputation was overrated but that is something.

Those type of big defensive dmen are so overrated that's not even funny anymore. I remember once a journalist pretended Hall Gill was top 30 in the league ...
 

Milhouse40

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Aug 19, 2010
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Juulsen, 2018 2nd, Davidson, Pleky for one year as their 3C are not spare parts. Oilers need cap space and depth on RD. This would work for them today and in the future.

2018 2nd = Nothing to them....they did their drafts.
Juulsen = Not a bluechip prospect, not even sure to make the NHL
Plekanec = They could help them next year, but nothing after.

Gallagher
Danault
Byron
Davidson

For

RNH
Nurse


That's an offer that would make them think a lot about it.
 

WhiskeySeven*

Expect the expected
Jun 17, 2007
25,154
770
Here is a list of players who finished exactly 6th in Norris voting over the past ten years:

Weber
Klingberg
Giordano
Doughty
Kieth
Girardi (lol)
Kris Letang
Dan Boyle
Kieth/Markov (tie)
Markov

Yup, just a crapshoot of average defensemen on that list.
I didn't call him average. And if that's your standard, average, I suggest you quit shadow boxing and propose your own arguments.

Weber had his lowest point totals in a decade. He was tired and needed rest before the playoffs, he was visibly exhausted in the later games of the FIRST round.

He's declining.

And that's fine to admit and move on from. He's still a top-pairing d-man. He's still very good defensively (when he plays in front of the best goalie in the NHL). He's still gonna be called man-mountain from sycophants.

We just need a good "#2" to carry him but have no assets to acquire one.
 

lamp9post

Registered User
Jan 28, 2007
4,402
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Wait what Dan m***** f***** Girardi finished 6th in norris voting? God i knew his reputation was overrated but that is something.

Those type of big defensive dmen are so overrated that's not even funny anymore. I remember once a journalist pretended Hall Gill was top 30 in the league ...

No kidding. He somehow received 2 first place votes that year. He was the only player outside the top-3 (Karlsson, Weber, Chara) to receive a #1 vote.
 

Scriptor

Registered User
Jan 1, 2014
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I can't see the Oilers going for that, not nearly enough going back, imo.

I agree, one-sided for MTL when you add Nurse.

Another poster was right by saying that these complicated deals with tons of players going one way or either way rarely happen.

I personally have a lot of hope that Mete pans out for MTL, but I see his suggestion of adding Mete to the deal and giving a 2nd rounder in 2018 instead of a 1st rounder as plausible.
 

Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
Jul 11, 2016
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2018 2nd = Nothing to them....they did their drafts.
Juulsen = Not a bluechip prospect, not even sure to make the NHL
Plekanec = They could help them next year, but nothing after.

Gallagher
Danault
Byron
Davidson

For

RNH
Nurse


That's an offer that would make them think a lot about it.


2018 2nd:
Nothing to them? You don't think a very good prospect in a deep draft helps them with cap space moving forward in 3 years ish?

Juulsen (RD):
Considering nobody is giving up premier right handed defenseman, Juulsen is a very good young defensive prospect and every NHL GM would love to have him in their prospect pool. Saying he might not make the NHL is a very negative approach for what he has done so far as a prospect. He's no Tinordi but you are evaluating him like he is.

Pleky: Your not being serious if you think the Oilers are not interested in having him for the upcoming season as their #3C.

You want to offer them Danault & Byron who need new contracts in 1 and 2 seasons. That just complicates their cap situation. You clearly are not seeing why they would trade RNH and Nurse in the first place. They need cap room!
 

Scriptor

Registered User
Jan 1, 2014
7,776
4,747
You must remember, the Oilers need cap space for next year when they have to re-sign Nurse, Strome and others when McDavid's contract kicks in. This trade address their needs today and in the future. Evaluate it further. It's on the main board and it was perceived well by some Oilers Fans.

- RNH = Gallagher, Pleky

- Nurse = Juulsen, Davidson, 2nd

This trade addresses more your desire than their need. They already have Strome who can play 3rd line C and don't need our Plekanec, IMO.

Wishful thinking, but, of course I'd love for Chiarelli to be that type of idiot and agree to the deal. Solves Montreal's problems at C and at D in one easy scoop and Gallagher is the only thing we lose of value!? They even take Davidson back!?
 
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