Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread

[Link67]

Exactly
Any hf boards poster could have done these trades

Got fleeced on The first one
The Drouin trade We ll see ,,,,

View attachment 96537


Fleeced is a strong word for a 6th in Norris Voting Dman wouldn't you say?

Drouin is one of the leagues premier young forwards, and we got him for a non roster player and then proceeded to sign him long term to a very nice caphit.

I am not sure where you are going with this nonsense but it is way too early in both fronts to be calling either move a Fleecing.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Exactly
Any hf boards poster could have done these trades

Got fleeced on The first one
The Drouin trade We ll see ,,,,

Really don't want to debate the merits for the 14,844,825 time but we certainly did not get "fleeced" on the Weber trade and we traded a potential young talent for a realized young talent. So I don't see how we lost either trade.

It pains me that Hab fans are the whiniest, belly achering fans in the NHL. Nothing anyone ever does is right and nothing anyone does can be unless it's been vetted on HF boards first.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Sergachev shouldn't be in the NHL next year. Absolutely terrible defensive awareness and I saw no improvements in his game. What really irks me the most is that everybody claimed that Sergachev was untouchable and that he will be something really special in the future, and as soon as he got traded he is guaranteed to be a bust.

The same BargainBinster partisans did the same to Subban, and to any other player the Habs missed out on or lost.

I'm not saying Sergachev would be ideal or a #1 d-man, but that he was highly touted across the league and played a position that was in demand and for which we have a gaping hole.

So in context of our poor off-season, the Drouin trade isn't all that impressive all things considered.

It pains me that Hab fans are the whiniest, belly achering fans in the NHL. Nothing anyone ever does is right and nothing anyone does can be unless it's been vetted on HF boards first.

Having horrible management does that to a fanbase. Quit blaming the fans.

View attachment 96537
Fleeced is a strong word for a 6th in Norris Voting Dman wouldn't you say?

Weber was closer to 0 points than to being within 972 points of winning the Norris. There was a HUGE gap between 3rd and the rest.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

The same BargainBinster partisans did the same to Subban, and to any other player the Habs missed out on or lost.

I'm not saying Sergachev would be ideal or a #1 d-man, but that he was highly touted across the league and played a position that was in demand and for which we have a gaping hole.

So in context of our poor off-season, the Drouin trade isn't all that impressive all things considered.


Having horrible management does that to a fanbase. Quit blaming the fans.


Weber was closer to 0 points than to being within 972 points of winning the Norris. There was a HUGE gap between 3rd and the rest.

Weber won the Norris in October, though.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Weber won the Norris in October, though.

Modern Habs fans count their successes in Division wins and the team's record in October.

I've previously said we should dig out the statues to the Habs legends and rip down the Stanley Cup banners if these are the standards we will be operating by during the current regime's tenure.

 

[Scriptor]

Modern Habs fans count their successes in Division wins and the team's record in October.

I've previously said we should dig out the statues to the Habs legends and rip down the Stanley Cup banners if these are the standards we will be operating by during the current regime's tenure.

Also during the previous regimes' tenure if you consider that we haven't sniffed a Cup in 25 years! It's not anything new or limited to this regime.

doesn't make it better, but it's not locked in time to the last 6 years, either.

May actually have been worse, at more than a few moments during the 19 years prior to this regime, to be fair.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Modern Habs fans count their successes in Division wins and the team's record in October.

I've previously said we should dig out the statues to the Habs legends and rip down the Stanley Cup banners if these are the standards we will be operating by during the current regime's tenure.

No team, ever, and I mean ever, will live up to the highest standards that our team has set in the past. Not one. Ever. Never. It's an unfair and unreasonable benchmark.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

May actually have been worse, at more than a few moments during the 19 years prior to this regime, to be fair.

"May" have been? Aside from a brief distraction while the Artiste was in town, most/all of the post-Cup '90s and 2000s have been worse than the past 4 or 5 years.

 

[Scriptor]

"May" have been? Aside from a brief distraction while the Artiste was in town, most/all of the post-Cup '90s and 2000s have been worse than the past 4 or 5 years.

Just being reserved so that other posters wouldn't automatically tune out the possibility

 

[Link67]

The same BargainBinster partisans did the same to Subban, and to any other player the Habs missed out on or lost.

I'm not saying Sergachev would be ideal or a #1 d-man, but that he was highly touted across the league and played a position that was in demand and for which we have a gaping hole.

So in context of our poor off-season, the Drouin trade isn't all that impressive all things considered.


Having horrible management does that to a fanbase. Quit blaming the fans.


Weber was closer to 0 points than to being within 972 points of winning the Norris. There was a HUGE gap between 3rd and the rest.

Oh I somehow knew you would be the one to spin the fact he was 6th in Norris voting into some nonsense like this. But that is still the fact, he was 6th, in a league full of dozens of top pair Dmen, he was voted 6th, get it through your head, let it sink in and appreciate it a little for crying out loud. Complaining about everything Bergevin does is one thing but trying to downplay and knockdown the quality of a Dman like Weber only makes you look foolish.

I mean Hockey Canada gets it wrong when they pick the guy as a top Dman, Babcock is wrong for thinking he is one of the absolute best, the Award voters are wrong for thinking he was the 6th best Dman. What the hell are you doing here? humbly posting on a fan forum, clearly with your profound insight on a guy like Weber, and your unmatched ability to see things no one else who matters can. Shouldn't you be running your own team and leading them to multiple championships in a row?

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Oh I somehow knew you would be the one to spin the fact he was 6th in Norris voting into some nonsense like this. But that is still the fact, he was 6th, in a league full of dozens of top pair Dmen, he was voted 6th, get it through your head, let it sink in and appreciate it a little for crying out loud. Complaining about everything Bergevin does is one thing but trying to downplay and knockdown the quality of a Dman like Weber only makes you look foolish.

I mean Hockey Canada gets it wrong when they pick the guy as a top Dman, Babcock is wrong for thinking he is one of the absolute best, the Award voters are wrong for thinking he was the 6th best Dman. What the hell are you doing here? humbly posting on a fan forum, clearly with your profound insight on a guy like Weber, and your unmatched ability to see things no one else who matters can. Shouldn't you be running your own team and leading them to multiple championships in a row?

The only foolish one here is the one implying that 100 Norris votes (Weber) is remotely comparable to 1437 Norris votes (Brent Burns).

How Weber does with Hockey Canada reflects the needs and quality of Hockey Canada. They don't need points from the back-end, they have points from every end. They need quality defensive play and Weber is probably the best defensive d-man in the league. It doesn't make him the best d-man in the league overall, and it certainly doesn't make him or his hideous contract remotely worth what our horrible GM paid to get him.

What am I doing here? I'm bringing some critical thinking to a forum full of sycophants and doe-eyed hopefuls. Raise your standards.

No team, ever, and I mean ever, will live up to the highest standards that our team has set in the past. Not one. Ever. Never. It's an unfair and unreasonable benchmark.

Thanks for that insight.

The point is: not many other teams celebrate division finishes quite like how some hyper-Binsters seem to do. I doubt our own lame organisation celebrates these division finishes like their partisans.

I want to see a Stanley Cup win during my adult life. I want to be there in person for the (inevitable) riot. I want to be there for the parade. I want to see and breathe that. I support other teams in other sports, and they have all been successful in recent times, but I have been cursed to be born a Habs fan and they're the club that has given me the most agony. And it's different being a Montrealer and a Habs fan - if I could turn it off I would. Believe me.

It's unreasonable to expect sustained dominance, but if it is also unreasonable to expect our team to compete for the Cup (which every Canadian team other than the Leafs and Habs have done) then I say we should tear down the statues and the banners because that is just disgracing the legacy these losers have been pimping.

Also during the previous regimes' tenure if you consider that we haven't sniffed a Cup in 25 years! It's not anything new or limited to this regime.

doesn't make it better, but it's not locked in time to the last 6 years, either.

May actually have been worse, at more than a few moments during the 19 years prior to this regime, to be fair.

I saw incremental growth under Gainey until his Summer of Free Agency. Then I saw some more professionalism and structure under Martin's stewardship but the team was limited severely. Then the Bin era came around and I saw plateauing. No progress whatsoever.

The inexorable march of time being what you and I know, that means depreciation. That means I'm seeing a club that is getting worse. No prospects, no talent, no nothing.

Carey Price is tremendous, a modern day Brodeur. Aside from him we have some question marks in Drouin and Chucky and that's it.

 

[Link67]

The only foolish one here is the one implying that 100 Norris votes (Weber) is remotely comparable to 1173 Norris votes (Brent Burns).

How Weber does with Hockey Canada reflects the needs and quality of Hockey Canada. They don't need points from the back-end, they have points from every end. They need quality defensive play and Weber is probably the best defensive d-man in the league. It doesn't make him the best d-man in the league overall, and it certainly doesn't make him or his hideous contract remotely worth what our horrible GM paid to get him.

What am I doing here? I'm bringing some critical thinking to a forum full of sycophants and doe-eyed hopefuls. Raise your standards.

Oh yes my Standards are so low, We have a top 3 - 7 Dman in the league, depending who you ask, and that is clearly not good enough, shame on me. He is indeed one of, if not the best Defensively, he also happens to be one of the most impactful on any PP. You should go compare our PP from 2 years ago and last year, tell me if you notice anything different statistically, and with the personnel. Weber has also been a consistent point producer over his career so I really don't know where you are going with that one. Are you talking about Spin-O-Ramas and the style points you get for them? or actually NHL points produced? I'm confused.

But please do continue with the critical thinking, if that is what were going to call it. I am just going to go ahead and continue to call it what i have been calling it for months now, Biased thinking. The anguish you feel about losing a certain player has clouded your ability to appreciate the quality player we have now to every degree. Except you are able to admit he can play Defense really well, which is great, because he is a Defenseman..

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Oh yes my Standards are so low, We have a top 3 - 7 Dman in the league, depending who you ask, and that is clearly not good enough, shame on me. He is indeed one of, if not the best Defensively, he also happens to be one of the most impactful on any PP. You should go compare our PP from 2 years ago and last year, tell me if you notice anything different statistically, and with the personnel. Weber has also been a consistent point producer over his career so I really don't know where you are going with that one. Are you talking about Spin-O-Ramas and the style points you get for them? or actually NHL points produced? I'm confused.

Subban has a higher PPG than Weber and it isn't even close. Last season, the one before, in the playoffs, all throughout their careers. Real points too, not just style point (that actually help you gain the zone and make your offense dynamic.) So much for your unbiased take.

And trades aren't done in vacuums, only one person in this discussion signed the richest offersheet in NHL history and is signed until he's 41. It's a bad contract and the Habs should've never touched it.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Subban has a higher PPG than Weber and it isn't even close.

Over the past 5 years it certainly is. Only 0.1 PPG separates them. Same (or less) when you do it for 2, 3, or even 4 years. But if you're trying to say that PK put up a higher PPG last year in a much smaller sample, then you're certainly not wrong. Not the most pertinent of points, but thanks for THAT insight.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Over the past 5 years it certainly is. Only 0.1 PPG separates them. Same (or less) when you do it for 2, 3, or even 4 years. But if you're trying to say that PK put up a higher PPG last year in a much smaller sample, then you're certainly not wrong. Not the most pertinent of points, but thanks for THAT insight.

In 16-17, Subban's PPG was much higher than Weber's. It wasn't even close: 0.6 vs 0.538.

I know I'm not wrong, it's simply the facts. Subban always puts up a higher PPG than Weber. It should go without saying.

But that's a secondary or tertiary argument. In terms of asset management The Trade was poor for many reasons, PPG being of import but rather low on the list.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

In 16-17, Subban's PPG was much higher than Weber's. It wasn't even close: 0.6 vs 0.538.

I know I'm not wrong, it's simply the facts. Subban always puts up a higher PPG than Weber. It should go without saying.

But that's a secondary or tertiary argument. In terms of asset management The Trade was poor for many reasons, PPG being of import but rather low on the list.

What you WERE wrong about, was not even being close. Aside from the smallest individual sample in the comparison (you probably think Crosby's 1.61 PPG "season" was the best of his career, lol), it's almost always close. Unless you define 0.1 PPG (or less) as "not even close", which I submit is unreasonable.

 

[HOPE]

cant believe some people can still believe Weber is a better overall Dman than Subban as we speak. it's laughable at this point.

Whiskey we probably share 99% of same opinions. i feel the exact same as you that i was so glab with the Drouin trade, because we were adding on top of radulov. You guys can check my post. been defending and saying was 100% the type of player the habs needed talent wise and attitude wise more than a year before we signed him. YES attitude wise because i have been sick of seeing these losers dont give a **** when they lost games. Radulov is the kind of guy who will shake a locker room when his angry about losing. Yes the Drouin trade colded me off a bit after they didnt sign radulov, I know our defense was gonna suck but you know what i was like ok... we got price. A pretty damn good top 6 dispite not having a real 1C and a average defense. but was still optimistic riding with that next season but i knew we would make the playoffs, have a much funner team to watch because they would be little more Offensived oriented, and maybe land a good missing piece at the deadline and make a cenderilla run ( this is all we can hope with how this team is built)! Bergevin crushed that with his ego playing poker with the second most exited player we had in years, oh... the first is Subban. i wont make a reminder of what happened.

My point, Bergevin is a ****ing idiot, I still LOVE the fact that he went for Drouin because i've been saying since day 1 that sergachev was overrated and Mete would be better than him overall, because he was the more dynamic player with a good stick work and better hockey IQ. to me sergachev as a Bomb of a shot, good at covering the puck WHEN his gone with it... but his acceleration is realy Mehhh and his descision time is realy realy bad wich will get worse in the NHL. i realy never seen anything special in him. Thats the 1% Whiskey! lol

Second point.

Bergevin isnt smart:

Radulov signing was a no brainer.

Drouin was a circonstances trade that was giving on a gold plate. ( he did pull the trigger, But honestly who woulnt have?)

Bergevin is a cocky ego guy that praise for player like who he was back in his NHL days to make himself feel good thinking he would still have his places in todays NHL.

I will Definitely be hated for saying such a thing but yep. **** the habs history i could care less. They're was like 5 teams when the habs dominated the league, whats there to be proud of, like honestely?? Its time to make our damn new history and stop sitting in the past, Stop living in the past, stop with the old minded recycled coaches. Bring the best available players, staffs, coaches etc. **** cultural ****.

 

[HOPE]

In 16-17, Subban's PPG was much higher than Weber's. It wasn't even close: 0.6 vs 0.538.

I know I'm not wrong, it's simply the facts. Subban always puts up a higher PPG than Weber. It should go without saying.

But that's a secondary or tertiary argument. In terms of asset management The Trade was poor for many reasons, PPG being of import but rather low on the list.

yep. and you know what? alzners signing woulnt even look that bad if it was Alzner - Subban. thats how bad it is when little things like this can change everything

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

What you WERE wrong about, was not even being close. Aside from the smallest individual sample in the comparison (you probably think Crosby's 1.61 PPG "season" was the best of his career, lol), it's almost always close. Unless you define 0.1 PPG (or less) as "not even close", which I submit is unreasonable.

"Subban has a higher PPG than Weber and it isn't even close." could mean two things:

1) This past season being used in the present tense. Subban's PPG was higher than Weber's, and it wasn't close.

or

2) Overall, throughout their careers. Subban has always had a higher PPG (iirc) than Weber season-by-season and overall it is 0.636 vs 0.587 which is again not even close if you take context into account (Weber's been in his prime for longer than PK, the gap should widen over the next half-decade as PK's earlier seasons lose prominence and Weber continues his sad decline).

We're talking about an elite player and a very good one, both getting elite player money. Those differences are the differences between finishing 1st in the Norris race with over a thousand points and finishing 6th with a hundred points, or being a 50+ point d-man or not. Or being reliable two ways or just defensively.

If you think I'm nitpicking, okay. I don't think it's unreasonable to (correctly) point out that Subban has a higher PPG against an argument that suggests he is an inferior point producer.

yep. and you know what? alzners signing woulnt even look that bad if it was Alzner - Subban. thats how bad it is when little things like this can change everything

Subban made anyone he played with look alright. Weber has to be carried because he's not a puck mover - he was a disaster with Emelin. If this season goes like the pessimists fear, we're in for some pain.

 

[HOPE]

"Subban has a higher PPG than Weber and it isn't even close." could mean two things:

1) This past season being used in the present tense. Subban's PPG was higher than Weber's, and it wasn't close.

or

2) Overall, throughout their careers. Subban has always had a higher PPG (iirc) than Weber season-by-season and overall it is 0.636 vs 0.587 which is again not even close if you take context into account (Weber's been in his prime for longer than PK, the gap should widen over the next half-decade as PK's earlier seasons lose prominence and Weber continues his sad decline).

We're talking about an elite player and a very good one, both getting elite player money. Those differences are the differences between finishing 1st in the Norris race with over a thousand points and finishing 6th with a hundred points, or being a 50+ point d-man or not. Or being reliable two ways or just defensively.

If you think I'm nitpicking, okay. I don't think it's unreasonable to (correctly) point out that Subban has a higher PPG against an argument that suggests he is an inferior point producer.


Subban made anyone he played with look alright. Weber has to be carried because he's not a puck mover - he was a disaster with Emelin. If this season goes like the pessimists fear, we're in for some pain.

wich is my point... Subban is a good puck carryer+mover. Alzner is a Defensive first type of D.

Alzner simply doesnt fit with Weber, not even close

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

wich is my point... Subban is a good puck carryer+mover. Alzner is a Defensive first type of D.

Alzner simply doesnt fit with Weber, not even close

Alzner will play with Petry. Weber it looks like will play with prized off-season acquisition Cap Space.

I will Definitely be hated for saying such a thing but yep. **** the habs history i could care less. They're was like 5 teams when the habs dominated the league, whats there to be proud of, like honestely?? Its time to make our damn new history and stop sitting in the past, Stop living in the past, stop with the old minded recycled coaches. Bring the best available players, staffs, coaches etc. **** cultural ****.

I'm sick of this current club pimping out the heritage and past they had no hand in building. It's an insult as far as I'm concerned.

Either stop living off the past or start contributing to it.

 

[DangerDave]

"Subban has a higher PPG than Weber and it isn't even close." could mean two things:

1) This past season being used in the present tense. Subban's PPG was higher than Weber's, and it wasn't close.

or

2) Overall, throughout their careers. Subban has always had a higher PPG (iirc) than Weber season-by-season and overall it is 0.636 vs 0.587 which is again not even close if you take context into account (Weber's been in his prime for longer than PK, the gap should widen over the next half-decade as PK's earlier seasons lose prominence and Weber continues his sad decline).

We're talking about an elite player and a very good one, both getting elite player money. Those differences are the differences between finishing 1st in the Norris race with over a thousand points and finishing 6th with a hundred points, or being a 50+ point d-man or not. Or being reliable two ways or just defensively.

If you think I'm nitpicking, okay. I don't think it's unreasonable to (correctly) point out that Subban has a higher PPG against an argument that suggests he is an inferior point producer.


Subban made anyone he played with look alright. Weber has to be carried because he's not a puck mover - he was a disaster with Emelin. If this season goes like the pessimists fear, we're in for some pain.

Actually, the difference between. 587 and. 636 is about 3 points over the course of a season.

 

[lamp9post]

The only foolish one here is the one implying that 100 Norris votes (Weber) is remotely comparable to 1437 Norris votes (Brent Burns).

Oh please...

The poster said that Weber was 6th in Norris voting, which is a fact. At no point did he make any comparisons between Weber and Burns.

If I pointed out that Brad Marchand was 6th in scoring this past year, would you ridicule me for comparing him to Connor McDavid?

 

[CauZuki]

I have a feeling RNH will be on Bergevin's Radar.

Habs trade Gallagher, Juulsen(or Mete) and 1st 2018.

for

RNH

New top 9 becomes (In this scenario Plekanec is traded):

Drouin - Galchenyuk - Lekhonen
Pacioretty - RNH - Byron
Hemsky - Danault - Shaw

I must say I like it , it gives our team a certain je ne sais quoi.

 

[G0bias]

Oh please...

The poster said that Weber was 6th in Norris voting, which is a fact. At no point did he make any comparisons between Weber and Burns.

If I pointed out that Brad Marchand was 6th in scoring this past year, would you ridicule me for comparing him to Connor McDavid?

I'd say you're doing a good job yourself. I kid, I kid.

Saying Weber was 6th as if it meant something meaningful is pretty silly. It doesn't hold weight when the winner has 1337 more votes than him. That's an exponentially larger gap than the 15 points separating Marchand from McDavid. To put it in perspective he's closer to 1 vote Dimitry Orlov than the guy just 5 spots ahead. He's not even close to half the votes of 4th place Keith. The comparison doesn't work here.