Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread (Sir John Tavares.. please save us edition)

Uncle Gary

Registered User
Apr 12, 2014
5,206
2,583
No doubt. Tavares is the superior player.

That said, his trade value is not as high as some think. He has one year left on his contract.

Some posters are suggesting some lunatic packages involving Galchenyuk ++ ... there is no precedent for that in the salary cap era. UFA rentals max out at a young roster player, a decent prospect, and a late 1st.

Agreed. I think Galchenyuk straight up is probably the best offer they would get. Of course discussion with JT about an extension would have to take place before hand.
 

Mercury10

Registered User
Feb 9, 2012
154
1
Vernon, BC
The Habs only have one centerman (Chucky) to fill a role on the top 2 lines. Trading him for Tavares leaves us in the same predicament with only having one, top 2 centerman.
You simply can't fill one hole while creating another similar size hole.
Those of you that don't realize that are the same ones that think Bergy effed up and think he should have made a trade just for the sake of making a trade.
I'm sure he looked at many more trade scenarios than all of us have considered and he used some simple theories to guide him. One theory is 'Don't fill one hole while creating another hole'. Another one I'm sure he uses is 'Don't TOTALLY mortgage the future (prospects and picks) on one trade'.
Thank God Bergy is the Habs GM and not some of you.
Mark my words, Bergy and his minions are keenly aware of where the team weakness is and he will fill it when the cost and price are aligned more closely.
Personally, I expect something big this offseason.
 
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DAChampion

Registered User
May 28, 2011
29,782
20,934
The Habs only have one centerman (Chucky) to fill a role on the top 2 lines. Trading him for Tavares leaves us in the same predicament with only having one, top 2 centerman.
You simply can't fill one hole while creating another similar size hole.
Those of you that don't realize that are the same ones that think Bergy effed up and think he should have made a trade just for the sake of making a trade.
I'm sure he looked at many more trade scenarios than all of us have considered and he used some simple theories to guide him. One theory is 'Don't fill one hole while creating another hole'. Another one I'm sure he uses is 'Don't TOTALLY mortgage the future (prospects and picks) on one trade'.
Thank God Bergy is the Habs GM and not some of you.
Mark my words, Bergy and his minions are keenly aware of where the team weakness is and he will fill it when the cost and price are aligned more closely.
Personally, I expect something big this offseason.

We're still missing a top-six centre if we trade Galchenyuk got Tavares, but the team is very much improved. Tavares is better at both ends of the ice. The job of the 2nd line centre becomes much easier.
 

Sterling Archer

Registered User
Sep 26, 2006
22,949
13,414
You shouldn't give a player more value just because he's been on cup-winning teams.

If Toews had been drafted by the Islanders, he would have won nothing. Kopitar was going to win nothing until the Kings traded for Jeff Carter.

I remember when Gainey acquired Gomez and Gionta "They've won cups, they will restore a culture of winning to heal us from Koivu's culture of losing !!!!!"

Players with pedigree and proven success in the playoffs have more value. Don't blame me for pointing that out. It's the way it is. There's a premium you pay for certainty. As Bergevin said, there are players who get you to the playoffs and players that get you through the payoffs.

Look no further than Shaw on our own team and how badly Chicago wanted to keep him.
 
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DAChampion

Registered User
May 28, 2011
29,782
20,934
Players with pedigree and proven success in the playoffs have more value. Don't blame me for pointing that out. It's the way it is. There's a premium you pay for certainty. As Bergevin said, there are players who get you to the playoffs and players that get you through the payoffs.

Look no further than Shaw on our own team and how badly Chicago wanted to keep him.

Chicago traded Shaw for very little value.

If other teams want to pay more money for something that's not worth it, then let them. For the Habs to overpay is to put the team at a strategic disadvantage.
 

Riggins

Registered User
Jul 12, 2002
7,766
4,452
Vancouver, BC
No doubt. Tavares is the superior player.

That said, his trade value is not as high as some think. He has one year left on his contract.

Some posters are suggesting some lunatic packages involving Galchenyuk ++ ... there is no precedent for that in the salary cap era. UFA rentals max out at a young roster player, a decent prospect, and a late 1st.

Players traded in June or July are not UFA rentals. If you deal for Tavares in the summer you have him for a full year minimum and a better chance at re-signing him. It is not the same as renting a guy at the trade deadline for 20 games.

It will certainly take Galchenyuk ++. The only way the value drops is if the Islanders hold onto him for too long and realize he's going to leave, then trade him next year at the deadline. Then maybe it's only a young player, top prospect and a 1st.
 

DAChampion

Registered User
May 28, 2011
29,782
20,934
Players traded in June or July are not UFA rentals. If you deal for Tavares in the summer you have him for a full year minimum and a better chance at re-signing him. It is not the same as renting a guy at the trade deadline for 20 games.

It will certainly take Galchenyuk ++. The only way the value drops is if the Islanders hold onto him for too long and realize he's going to leave, then trade him next year at the deadline. Then maybe it's only a young player, top prospect and a 1st.

It will not, unless Bergevin overpays.
 

Sterling Archer

Registered User
Sep 26, 2006
22,949
13,414
Chicago traded Shaw for very little value.

If other teams want to pay more money for something that's not worth it, then let them. For the Habs to overpay is to put the team at a strategic disadvantage.

Two 2nds for a 5'10" utility player is cheap? Nah.
 

crazyd

Canada is hockey
Jul 2, 2006
1,453
2
1 year remaining for Tavares....

1 year remaining for Plekanec...

Let's use Plekanec as the basis of the trade. In Plekanec they get a veteran center to take tough minutes to allow Strome to pursue his development. They can re-sign Plekanec quite cheaper than Tavares while keeping a quality player.

The question becomes what do we add to Plekanec?

I could envision something in the likes of:

Tavares + 3e round conditional pick if Plekanec re-signed (otherwise 4th round)

for

Plekanec + 1st round conditional pick if Tavares re-signed (otherwise 2nd) + ....
Galchenuyk?
Gallagher + other prospect?
McCarron + other prospect?
Scherbak + other draft pick (3e round)?

In the end we can simply end up with a 4th, so it is a gamble. And we are taking the bigger burden of this gamble since NYI can easily end up with a 2nd rounder + roster player + prospect or even better.

I'm even starting to think of packaging (possibly to much): Plekanec + 1st conditional + Gallagher + Scherbak.
 

DAChampion

Registered User
May 28, 2011
29,782
20,934
Ok, what's a package from the Habs that you consider fair value for Tavares in a trade at the draft?

The Habs can't resign Tavares until July 1st, so acquiring him earlier than that is high risk.

If the Habs sign Tavares, Galchenyuk alone.

If Tavares is a rental, two consecutive 1st round draft picks.
 

417

BBQ Chicken Alert!
Feb 20, 2003
51,255
27,464
Ottawa
1 year remaining for Tavares....

1 year remaining for Plekanec...

Let's use Plekanec as the basis of the trade. In Plekanec they get a veteran center to take tough minutes to allow Strome to pursue his development. They can re-sign Plekanec quite cheaper than Tavares while keeping a quality player.

The question becomes what do we add to Plekanec?

I could envision something in the likes of:

Tavares + 3e round conditional pick if Plekanec re-signed (otherwise 4th round)

for

Plekanec + 1st round conditional pick if Tavares re-signed (otherwise 2nd) + ....
Galchenuyk?
Gallagher + other prospect?
McCarron + other prospect?
Scherbak + other draft pick (3e round)?

In the end we can simply end up with a 4th, so it is a gamble. And we are taking the bigger burden of this gamble since NYI can easily end up with a 2nd rounder + roster player + prospect or even better.

I'm even starting to think of packaging (possibly to much): Plekanec + 1st conditional + Gallagher + Scherbak.

No offense but after reading

"Let's use Plekanec as the basis for a trade" for a trade involving John Tavares

I stopped reading after that
 

DAChampion

Registered User
May 28, 2011
29,782
20,934
No offense but after reading

"Let's use Plekanec as the basis for a trade" for a trade involving John Tavares

I stopped reading after that

Plekanec probably needs to be included for salary cap and roster purposes.

In which case the Habs have to pay for more than Tavares legitimate trade value, as they're throwing in a negative-value asset.

So my offer would be:
1sy rounder 2017
1st rounder 2018
2nd rounder 2017
2nd rounder 2018
Tomas Plekanec

The two 2nd rounders compensate for the inclusion of Plekanec.
 

sandviper

No Ragrets
Jan 26, 2016
13,364
24,191
Toronto
We're still missing a top-six centre if we trade Galchenyuk got Tavares, but the team is very much improved. Tavares is better at both ends of the ice. The job of the 2nd line centre becomes much easier.

Agreed. I love Chuck but JT is elite and would make us better. Sure, Chuck may re-breakout and be a beast defensively and score 70pts, but JT is there now. He's not ancient either, nor has he been in playoff wars. Sure, he doesn't have the experience of Kopitar or Toews but he doesn't have the mileage on his body either.

He doesn't solve all our problems but he's a step forward. Shame though he likely will never come here since I don't think he really is being shopped around.
 

Belial

Registered User
Oct 22, 2014
26,142
14,323
Montreal
Plekanec probably needs to be included for salary cap and roster purposes.

In which case the Habs have to pay for more than Tavares legitimate trade value, as they're throwing in a negative-value asset.

So my offer would be:
1sy rounder 2017
1st rounder 2018
2nd rounder 2017
2nd rounder 2018
Tomas Plekanec

The two 2nd rounders compensate for the inclusion of Plekanec.

You're not getting Tavares for draft picks! Come on man...
 

DAChampion

Registered User
May 28, 2011
29,782
20,934
You're not getting Tavares for draft picks! Come on man...

If the Islanders want to hold out for the best trade value of any trade in twenty years, then let them end up with nothing.

Tavares is a rental, rentals don't fetch that much.

Rick Nash, Jeff Carter, Mike Richards, Phil Kessel, Tyler Seguin, PK Subban, Taylor Hall, etc were not rentals when they were traded. They earned more value.

And even Tyler Seguin and Taylor Hall didn't fetch Galchenyuk++.
 

angry pirate

Registered User
Feb 9, 2009
2,144
266
We're still missing a top-six centre if we trade Galchenyuk got Tavares, but the team is very much improved. Tavares is better at both ends of the ice. The job of the 2nd line centre becomes much easier.

I'd actually be completely okay with Danault as a 2C to start the season if we had Tavares as a 1C.

Lehkonen - Tavares - Radulov
Pacioretty - Danault - Gallagher

That is a top 6 that should be hard to shutdown. Byron and Shaw would provide good scoring depth on a 3rd line. Maybe even McCarron could center.
 

Uncle Gary

Registered User
Apr 12, 2014
5,206
2,583
I'd actually be completely okay with Danault as a 2C to start the season if we had Tavares as a 1C.

Lehkonen - Tavares - Radulov
Pacioretty - Danault - Gallagher

That is a top 6 that should be hard to shutdown. Byron and Shaw would provide good scoring depth on a 3rd line. Maybe even McCarron could center.

That is a good lineup. Then at the deadline maybe you add a good rental forward.
 

Sterling Archer

Registered User
Sep 26, 2006
22,949
13,414
Define utility?

16 playoff goals, 35 playoff pts, all while being 24yrs old.......does this fall under the utility catergory?

It falls under the category of a playoff performer and as such...

Players with pedigree and proven success in the playoffs have more value. Don't blame me for pointing that out. It's the way it is. There's a premium you pay for certainty. As Bergevin said, there are players who get you to the playoffs and players that get you through the payoffs.

Look no further than Shaw on our own team and how badly Chicago wanted to keep him.
 

The Great Weal

Phil's Pizza
Jan 15, 2015
52,017
64,400
I think next year would be our best chance for a serious run.
Galchenyuk, Scherbak, McCarron, 1st for Tavares.
Both 2nds, Emelin for Scandella.
Sign Schipachev and Dadonov.

Pacioretty-Tavares-Gallagher
Dadonov-Schipachev-Radulov
Lekhonen-Danault-Shaw
Byron-Mitchell-Carr

Scandella-Weber
Markov-Petry
Beaulieu-Benn
 

G0bias

Registered User
Oct 4, 2007
7,745
5,980
MTL
I think next year would be our best chance for a serious run.
Galchenyuk, Scherbak, McCarron, 1st for Tavares.
Both 2nds, Emelin for Scandella.
Sign Schipachev and Dadonov.

Pacioretty-Tavares-Gallagher
Dadonov-Schipachev-Radulov
Lekhonen-Danault-Shaw
Byron-Mitchell-Carr

Scandella-Weber
Markov-Petry
Beaulieu-Benn

That's alot of improvements to hope from MB in one summer when he has done 1 maybe 2 in 5 years. Prepare to be disappointed.
 

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