Speculation: Toronto & the Islanders

[DarkHorse2]

Obviously the Occam's Razor explanation for why we've heard nothing is that Snow is staying and we are doomed.

But...

I was listening to talk about what Toronto is doing, and a theory started percolating:
What if Toronto and the Islanders are holding each other hostage in terms of the GM position?

Some time after Lamoriello's announcement to step aside (which has been the plan all along, so Toronto hasn't been blindsided in any way) the Leafs still haven't announced a new GM.
Some time after Ledecky's announcement of an evaluation of the organization, nothing has happened.

If Toronto announces either Kyle Dubas or Mark Hunter as GM, the other is likely to want a new job. The only potential openings at the moment are in Minnesota (who are believed to be in on Paul Felton) and Long Island.
If the Islanders don't announce what's happening, that possible opening is a threat to Toronto as a potential landung spot for Dubas or Hunter (who happens to know Tavares very well from their Knights days.) So if Toronto doesn't make their move, the Islanders don't make their move (and the dance continues.)

One way to explain why both teams are taking a surprising amount of time to make a decision.

Click to read more...

 

[LeapOnOver]

The TLDR of what you are saying is that GM's are waiting to see what a world class organization like the Maple Leafs is doing, then they'll see if there are any openings for GMs in the AHL. Then, they'll check to see if there are any positions in other sports leagues. Then, they'll see if their kid needs a coach for his PAL league. If all those fail, then and only then will they contact the Islanders to see if they have an opening.

So as far as holding each other hostage, that isn't happening. Islanders are waiting by the dumpster to see what leftovers end up there....and GM's are clamoring for any job but one with the Islanders.

 

[scott99]

@AndyGraz_WFAN

Was told tonight #isles have not spoken to Lou Lamoriello...also, it was made very clear to me at this time the owner you've never heard from is calling all the plays.

This puts and end to THAT theory.

 

[DarkHorse2]

@AndyGraz_WFAN

Was told tonight #isles have not spoken to Lou Lamoriello...also, it was made very clear to me at this time the owner you've never heard from is calling all the plays.

This puts and end to THAT theory.

Not speaking to Lamoriello doesn't mean they wouldn't want Dubas or Hunter (especially Hunter).

I'm not thinking this is real, but it's definitely possible. There's no good reason why Toronto wasn't ready to make their call once Lamoriello stepped aside.

 

[Spirit of 67]

One thing about Shanny is he seems to be pretty methodical and diligent. He will take as much time and turn over every pebble until he's satisfied he's got his right man.

I was under the impression that the Isles wanted someone with experience. Which makes me believe that Lou will be going there. Has ties to the organization, to the area and would like to be sitting in the big boy chair still. Not kicked upstairs.

With us needing a couple centers and JT hitting the market (it sure seems) I expect we'll be in on him. We also have to find a home for Matt Martin and perhaps it's the Island?

Anyway, starting to look like our summers will be intertwined.

 

[DarkHorse2]

One thing about Shanny is he seems to be pretty methodical and diligent. He will take as much time and turn over every pebble until he's satisfied he's got his right man.

If he hasn't figured out which of Dubas or Hunter he wants by now, something is wrong. He's worked with them for years. If he goes outside the organization, he could lose both of them.

 

[Instant]

With us needing a couple centers and JT hitting the market (it sure seems) I expect we'll be in on him. We also have to find a home for Matt Martin and perhaps it's the Island?

We have a cheaper, more skilled version of Matt Martin in Ross Johnston, so thanks, you can keep him. Also, I thought you might need an upgrade on the defence way more than a center like Tavares? With having Matthews and all the others?

 

[Spirit of 67]

If he hasn't figured out which of Dubas or Hunter he wants by now, something is wrong. He's worked with them for years. If he goes outside the organization, he could lose both of them.

Yes he could. But it may be worth it.
If Shanny has someone else in mind, he will likely get him. He's pulled rabbits out of his hat before.

I don't see any reason to worry.

 

[Spirit of 67]

We have a cheaper, more skilled version of Matt Martin in Ross Johnston, so thanks, you can keep him. Also, I thought you might need an upgrade on the defence way more than a center like Tavares? With having Matthews and all the others?

We only have 2 NHL centers signed for next season. We also need D but we won't be making any big trades. Patience, for the most part, is still in order.

No big deal if you don't want MM. I actually kinda think he ends up in Ottawa.

 

[CREW99AW]

@AndyGraz_WFAN

Was told tonight #isles have not spoken to Lou Lamoriello...also, it was made very clear to me at this time the owner you've never heard from is calling all the plays.

This puts and end to THAT theory.

Very interesting to hear that Malkin, the owner with the deep pockets , is so involved .
I thought he was heavily involved in his other businesses and letting Ledecky make final nyi decisions.

 

[Instant]

We only have 2 NHL centers signed for next season. We also need D but we won't be making any big trades. Patience, for the most part, is still in order.

No big deal if you don't want MM. I actually kinda think he ends up in Ottawa.

Eh, just because we don't want him doesn't mean our genius GM "I'm the smartest person in the room" Garth Snow will be feeling the same

Patience will someday end us all. At least you look like you're on the right path, so good for you, guys. Though I have to admit, I don't get why so many of you want JT. Sure, there's this whole thing where he's from GTA and all, but just... He will get a lot of money, he's quite older than your core guys and I just don't see the fit in the style of play? Maybe you just see something I don't.

Also, I have to say it's quite nice to talk with a calm and reasonable Leafs fan, doesn't happen enough unfortunately.

 

[CREW99AW]

[QUOTE="Spirit of 67, post: 145809973, member:
We also have to find a home for Matt Martin and perhaps it's the Island?

.[/QUOTE]

Love all Martin's charity work .Seems like a class act, but I would rather go with young Johnston .
I do want another slow skater added.

 

[CREW99AW]

Eh, just because we don't want him doesn't mean our genius GM "I'm the smartest person in the room" Garth Snow will be feeling the same

y.

Months ago, when Martin's name surfaced in trade rumors ,Toronto media floated the idea of Martin back to LI and Staple shot it down in a tweet,saying the isles had no interest.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Eh, just because we don't want him doesn't mean our genius GM "I'm the smartest person in the room" Garth Snow will be feeling the same

Patience will someday end us all. At least you look like you're on the right path, so good for you, guys. Though I have to admit, I don't get why so many of you want JT. Sure, there's this whole thing where he's from GTA and all, but just... He will get a lot of money, he's quite older than your core guys and I just don't see the fit in the style of play? Maybe you just see something I don't.

Also, I have to say it's quite nice to talk with a calm and reasonable Leafs fan, doesn't happen enough unfortunately.

I look at teams like Buffalo and Edmonton (among some others) who tried to accelerate their rebuilds with trades and it's not gone well. Whereas Winnipeg was patient. Now look where those franchises are.

As for JT, I don't care if he's from the area. He's good and we need a C. Now, that's not at any cost. Obviously we have to fit the big 3 in. I think we set a price that we can afford (seems $10M works) and if wants more, he's welcome to find it elsewhere. He's not a guaranteed fit either. As you point out but also, he has to understand that this will not be his team like it is in NY. I have no idea how he will feel about that but the big dog around here will be Matthews. He will be the captain and highest paid player. If JT is not okay with that, again, he's free to seek employment elsewhere.

Lastly, I'm more than happy to have a civilized hockey conversation with anyone.

 

[MJF]

Very interesting to hear that Malkin, the owner with the deep pockets , is so involved .
I thought he was heavily involved in his other businesses and letting Ledecky make final nyi decisions.

Scott Malkin has been the owner talking exclusively to JT's agent Pat Brisson. It's been reported he's made multiple trips from London to Brisson's office to deal with him.

 

[CREW99AW]

Scott Malkin has been the owner talking exclusively to JT's agent Pat Brisson. It's been reported he's made multiple trips from London to Brisson's office to deal with him.

Glad to read he is so involved and not leaving the sales job up to Snow.

It will be a real kick in the teeth, if the isles 27 yr old franchise player walks away. I want ownership to feel that disappointment as much as the fans and realise how much blame the front office carries.

 

[MJF]

Glad to read he is so involved and not leaving the sales job up to Snow.

It will be a real kick in the teeth, if the isles 27 yr old franchise player walks away. I want ownership to feel that disappointment as much as the fans and realise how much blame the front office carries.

If Tavares walks the blame for that would lay squarely at the feet of ownership. They chose to bend over backwards to give JT what they believe he needed in order to re-sign (keeping Snow, removing the interim tag from Weight last season) to the detriment of the team this year. They allowed Re-signing JT to become bigger than the team. Once Tavares said he was playing out his contract it hamstrung Snow from moving the first round pucks because he felt he may need them to rebuild if JT walks.

I’m not at all blaming Tavares for exercising his rights to free agency, but I think there were some unintended results of him doing so. One was the team being stuck in limbo this year.

 

[seafoam]

Don’t think this is the case, I think Malkin is satisfied with his buddy Snow.

 

[Zizzzzy]

If he hasn't figured out which of Dubas or Hunter he wants by now, something is wrong. He's worked with them for years. If he goes outside the organization, he could lose both of them.

I suspect he already has, however has no interest in shaking up Marlies management in the middle of the Calder Cup run. Once they are done for the season, I expect an announcement.

 

[redbull]

I look at teams like Buffalo and Edmonton (among some others) who tried to accelerate their rebuilds with trades and it's not gone well. Whereas Winnipeg was patient. Now look where those franchises are.

As for JT, I don't care if he's from the area. He's good and we need a C. Now, that's not at any cost. Obviously we have to fit the big 3 in. I think we set a price that we can afford (seems $10M works) and if wants more, he's welcome to find it elsewhere. He's not a guaranteed fit either. As you point out but also, he has to understand that this will not be his team like it is in NY. I have no idea how he will feel about that but the big dog around here will be Matthews. He will be the captain and highest paid player. If JT is not okay with that, again, he's free to seek employment elsewhere.

Lastly, I'm more than happy to have a civilized hockey conversation with anyone.

I don't think it's right to assume that trades don't work with a couple of examples. There are some top teams (still in the playoffs) that can make effective trades.

JT to TOR makes way too much sense. Despite OUR speculation of what JT wants (to be the top dog or not, to want the media/spotlight or not, what the hell does this board or the media know?!)

JT's been very clear on his desire to remain an Islander and to WIN. He is in full control of the first part. He's also completely delusional if he believes the second part. And the mess from ownership down we've seen of late is not helping.

I'd expect Tavares to take less than $10MM to play for the Leafs and I highly doubt he'll ask for max money to play elsewhere - we shall see.

If Tavares walks the blame for that would lay squarely at the feet of ownership. They chose to bend over backwards to give JT what they believe he needed in order to re-sign (keeping Snow, removing the interim tag from Weight last season) to the detriment of the team this year. They allowed Re-signing JT to become bigger than the team. Once Tavares said he was playing out his contract it hamstrung Snow from moving the first round pucks because he felt he may need them to rebuild if JT walks.

I’m not at all blaming Tavares for exercising his rights to free agency, but I think there were some unintended results of him doing so. One was the team being stuck in limbo this year.

I don't think it's a matter of bending over backwards. He just wants to win. Like any other player. Not many players will ever have the luxury to choose their place to play - Tavares will. The money will be enough to last several lifetimes. He doesn't strike me as a guy who spends $$$ like a Floyd Mayweather, despite pressures from Brisson and the NHLPA to take max money, I expect him to remain the conservative superstar he's been the whole time.

The Isles objective should never be to make JT happy, it should be to build a winning organization, with or without JT.

They haven't done that, haven't shown an ability to do that, not even remotely, and now ownership is showing their inability to make a timely decision at a critical part of the team's history and future. Not exactly inspiring.

 

[redbull]

Obviously the Occam's Razor explanation for why we've heard nothing is that Snow is staying and we are doomed.

But...

I was listening to talk about what Toronto is doing, and a theory started percolating:
What if Toronto and the Islanders are holding each other hostage in terms of the GM position?

Some time after Lamoriello's announcement to step aside (which has been the plan all along, so Toronto hasn't been blindsided in any way) the Leafs still haven't announced a new GM.
Some time after Ledecky's announcement of an evaluation of the organization, nothing has happened.

If Toronto announces either Kyle Dubas or Mark Hunter as GM, the other is likely to want a new job. The only potential openings at the moment are in Minnesota (who are believed to be in on Paul Felton) and Long Island.
If the Islanders don't announce what's happening, that possible opening is a threat to Toronto as a potential landung spot for Dubas or Hunter (who happens to know Tavares very well from their Knights days.) So if Toronto doesn't make their move, the Islanders don't make their move (and the dance continues.)

One way to explain why both teams are taking a surprising amount of time to make a decision.

I think Shanahan doesn't give a crap. Hunter will run the draft and the GM position will just wait. Maybe Shanahan is waiting for someone better than Dubas or Hunter?!

Shanahan has hit a home-run with all his decisions so far. Like Garth? hm.

 

[Spirit of 67]

JT to TOR makes way too much sense. Despite OUR speculation of what JT wants (to be the top dog or not, to want the media/spotlight or not, what the hell does this board or the media know?!)

JT's been very clear on his desire to remain an Islander and to WIN. He is in full control of the first part. He's also completely delusional if he believes the second part. And the mess from ownership down we've seen of late is not helping.

I'd expect Tavares to take less than $10MM to play for the Leafs and I highly doubt he'll ask for max money to play elsewhere - we shall see.

Up until the TDL, I simply assumed he'd re-sign on the Island. Now, I have no idea.

If we could get him for less than $10M/ that would be great. And I'm with you about the max deal but I guess if someone offers an extra $20M over the life of the contract, it would be tough to say no.

We shall see how this all plays out.

 

[CREW99AW]

I d

JT to TOR makes way too much sense. Despite OUR speculation of what JT wants (to be the top dog or not, to want the media/spotlight or not, what the hell does this board or the media know?!)

JT's been very clear on his desire to remain an Islander and to WIN.



I

The Isles objective should never be to make JT happy, it should be to build a winning organization, with or without JT.
.

Based on reading Tavares comments over tbe last 8 seasons and comments from credible sources over those yrs who have spoken about Tavares, I do think wants to be top dog,the Crosby on his team and not the Malkin.
I do not think he wants to be Matthews sidekick and does not have to with the number of teams and offers he will get in 7-8 weeks.
There are several very good teams like St.Louis, SJ, Columbus that could offer a talented team, strong front office and where he would be top dog. Those are tbe franchises I worry about.

 

[MJF]

They haven't done that, haven't shown an ability to do that, not even remotely, and now ownership is showing their inability to make a timely decision at a critical part of the team's history and future. Not exactly inspiring.

I think that’s exactly the course of action L&M chose since last year, keep JT happy. The Clutterbuck resigning, keeping Weight as coach, keeping Snow as GM after last year, the Bailey signing, were all done with an eye towards getting Tavares to resign. If this was the plan all along I think they put Tavares ahead of the team and that’s wrong.

 

[CREW99AW]

I think that’s exactly the course of action L&M chose since last year, keep JT happy. The Clutterbuck resigning, keeping Weight as coach, keeping Snow as GM after last year, the Bailey signing, were all done with an eye towards getting Tavares to resign. If this was the plan all along I think they put Tavares ahead of the team and that’s wrong.

I hate the Clutterbuck extension and keeping Weight/Snow in jobs they are failing at.
Part of me cannot help being glad, we will have a decision on Tavares one way or the other.