Player Discussion Torey Krug III

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ORR2Sanderson2ORR

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https://thehockeywriters.com/boston-bruins-need-torey-krug/

I personally disagree with the article.

Id' like to see krug moved for a more reliable defenseman in his own end. One who can skate and make that quick-outlet pass but can shut down the opposition behind his own blueline.

Im not a krug hater he's a very good player for what he brings but I believe he's a chip the Bruins can afford to wager so speak. As their many teams out there who covets such a player as Krug for what he brings offensively and on the PP.

Maybe the Bruins can find a match for that more stay at home shut-down defender.
 
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00BW

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Krug has been great since his little sit down. This team has no needs half way through the season so unless some team comes to you offering something ridiculously stupid in return, keep Krug for the playoff run.

There will be an opportunity to move him at the 2018 draft if the Bruins are comfortable enough with Chara/Grzelcyk and an internal option at LD next year. They should be able to get the same package as Hamilton brought back. Maybe even a pick in the top 10.

My best guess is they hang onto him for 1 more year and deal him at the 2019 draft. They can use an ELC to replace him them to free up the money to pay Heinen, McAvoy, and Carlo that year. Two of those three are going to get at least $6m.
 

Alberta_OReilly_Fan

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I'm thinking Krug really misses McQuaid. McQuaid presence gave Krug two more inches and "Hockey muscles". Krug hasn't played with the same intensity and confidence sense McQuaids been out.

I think theres no question that when krug is partnered with a heavy lifter like mcquaid and sees 3rd pair assignments... getting a great % of offensive zone starts and kept away from the other teams top line... that things go better

but what does this mean?

should krug be a 3rd pair pp specialist being paid a lot less money? would be be outstanding if that was his role? would we love a 3rd pair of mcquaid/krug if they were making around 5 mill between them max...

sadly its just wishing for unicorns. mcavoy/carlo/miller are ahead of mcquaid on depth chart. hes on his way out. if krug is going to be getting top mins hes going to be paired with someone like mcavoy or carlo. hes going to need to figure out a way to play in his own zone against better competition. hes going to need to figure a way to play tough enough without mcquaid babysitting him

hes being paid 5+ mill now... that means we are giving him the challenge. we need him to succeed. can he figure out how to improve?

from what ive seen the krug today is very similar to the krug last year and the krug 2 years ago. he was a great pp guy then and hes a great pp guy today. I understand krug will put up 50 points if hes healthy. I don't hate krugs offensive game

but can krug play a regular shift without ending up a minus 20-25 over the course of a year when hes playing with carlo or mcavoy in a top 4 role?

if the answer is no... he has to be moved. we cant have that type of negative goal differential at 5 on 5 hockey
 
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Troublesome 85

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I'm thinking Krug really misses McQuaid. McQuaid presence gave Krug two more inches and "Hockey muscles". Krug hasn't played with the same intensity and confidence sense McQuaids been out.

Feel the same way, McQuaid is like Krugs safety blanket, he knows if anyone messes with him he has McQuaid to back him up.

With that being said I am not and never have been a big Krug fan. I am all for him being moved if they get back something nice.
 
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BigBadBruins7708

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I think theres no question that when krug is partnered with a heavy lifter like mcquaid and sees 3rd pair assignments... getting a great % of offensive zone starts and kept away from the other teams top line... that things go better

but what does this mean?

should krug be a 3rd pair pp specialist being paid a lot less money? would be be outstanding if that was his role? would we love a 3rd pair of mcquaid/krug if they were making around 5 mill between them max...

sadly its just wishing for unicorns. mcavoy/carlo/miller are ahead of mcquaid on depth chart. hes on his way out. if krug is going to be getting top mins hes going to be paired with someone like mcavoy or carlo. hes going to need to figure out a way to play in his own zone against better competition. hes going to need to figure a way to play tough enough without mcquaid babysitting him

hes being paid 5+ mill now... that means we are giving him the challenge. we need him to succeed. can he figure out how to improve?

from what ive seen the krug today is very similar to the krug last year and the krug 2 years ago. he was a great pp guy then and hes a great pp guy today. I understand krug will put up 50 points if hes healthy. I don't hate krugs offensive game

but can krug play a regular shift without ending up a minus 20-25 over the course of a year when hes playing with carlo or mcavoy in a top 4 role?

if the answer is no... he has to be moved. we cant have that type of negative goal differential at 5 on 5 hockey

Hyperbole to the max...

His career WORST +/- season is last year, -10.

This year he is currently -1.

His other 3 years, he was +18, +12, +9.

Same ol crap that every offensive D gets here. Magically the PMD we have is garbage defensively and all other PMDs in the league are pined for because they dont make mistakes.

Newsflash, 99% of PMDs have defensive lapses.
 

Alberta_OReilly_Fan

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Hyperbole to the max...

His career WORST +/- season is last year, -10.

This year he is currently -1.

His other 3 years, he was +18, +12, +9.

Same ol crap that every offensive D gets here. Magically the PMD we have is garbage defensively and all other PMDs in the league are pined for because they dont make mistakes.

Newsflash, 99% of PMDs have defensive lapses.

+7 in last 7 games... I think weve outscored the opposition around 25 goals in those 7 games :)

I give him credit that he has ridden the incredible success to get his plus minus back to this high

but the problem is... when we start to ask him to do heavy lifting his plus minus sinks like a stone. then we must back off and let him slip into a more comfortable role. he has to be protected. when he is protected yes his plus minus can start to climb

I am not saying he is incapable of playing protected assignments. he is actually probably the very best bottom pair dman in the nhl... a superstar bottom pair dman

and hes maybe an acceptable second pair dman on an average team. I wouldn't necessarily say hes wonderful in the role. but hes probably someone you can run out there for 20 mins and will help the same as he hurts and end up rather average

but heres where you fail to understand what I'm saying. if we are paying him 5 mill hes FORCED to be the guy. sure we might play him second pair but if an injury happens the second pair guy is forced to step up. krug has no additional gear

when boychuck was our second pair guy... he was capable to step up.

maybe carlo might be able to? but then hes going to get paid. mcavoy is going to get paid. whoever replaces chara will get paid.

the guys who get paid... must be reliable to get the job done at playoff time

krug... hes great at what he does well. but what he doesn't do well is a problem. if krug was skated 22 mins a night taking defensive zone starts against top lines I'm quite convinced he would be a minus 20-25

no hyperbole required. just simple observation how often he gets lit up whenever used in this role
 

Chief Nine

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Hyperbole to the max...

His career WORST +/- season is last year, -10.

This year he is currently -1.

His other 3 years, he was +18, +12, +9.

Same ol crap that every offensive D gets here. Magically the PMD we have is garbage defensively and all other PMDs in the league are pined for because they dont make mistakes.

Newsflash, 99% of PMDs have defensive lapses.

And as recently as about a week or two back a lot of people were pointing to Krug being -8. Well, that's +7 since then in my estimation, so he must be getting better all of a sudden. :eek: Can't use +/- as a BS stat if that's what the measuring stick is to "prove" that Krug is a "bad" defenseman. Hockey is a game of mistakes. Otherwise every game would be 0-0.
 

Alberta_OReilly_Fan

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And as recently as about a week or two back a lot of people were pointing to Krug being -8. Well, that's +7 since then in my estimation, so he must be getting better all of a sudden. :eek: Can't use +/- as a BS stat if that's what the measuring stick is to "prove" that Krug is a "bad" defenseman. Hockey is a game of mistakes. Otherwise every game would be 0-0.

I think that most of us watch krug and see him get into serious trouble when hes in over his head. his partner does extra work to cover up. if the work load is kept to a minimum then the damage is minimum. meanwhile krug does a lot of good things and the result is positive as reflected by the plus minus

but when krug is put into greater situations... the damage becomes a lot more serious. his positives begin to fall short.

its strictly eye test but when backed up by the numbers you begin to see alarming patterns.

of course when you are a fan of highlight reels... and the team is winning... krug looks pretty impressive. he makes very pretty highlights.

this is a guy you have to watch to get a full understanding. and more than that you have to manage him. put him in situations that suit him and he will help you. but ask him to improve his game and he will leave you disappointed.

hes not a top pair dman and imho never will be. and he needs the right partner to be an adequet second pair dman. hes not the engine that drives the chain. hes a complimentary piece to a puzzle

are we the puzzle that he fits? that remains to be seen. I wish he was paid to fit a bottom pair and then I would have no doubt he should be kept. but cap is a reality and guys that get paid 5 mill must be important parts of a winning defense. at that moment, I don't think krug helps more than he hurts.

sorry. I'm glad for him hes going to be paid... but not glad for our team that we are the ones paying
 

Chief Nine

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I think that most of us watch krug and see him get into serious trouble when hes in over his head. his partner does extra work to cover up. if the work load is kept to a minimum then the damage is minimum. meanwhile krug does a lot of good things and the result is positive as reflected by the plus minus

but when krug is put into greater situations... the damage becomes a lot more serious. his positives begin to fall short.

its strictly eye test but when backed up by the numbers you begin to see alarming patterns.

of course when you are a fan of highlight reels... and the team is winning... krug looks pretty impressive. he makes very pretty highlights.

this is a guy you have to watch to get a full understanding. and more than that you have to manage him. put him in situations that suit him and he will help you. but ask him to improve his game and he will leave you disappointed.

hes not a top pair dman and imho never will be. and he needs the right partner to be an adequet second pair dman. hes not the engine that drives the chain. hes a complimentary piece to a puzzle

are we the puzzle that he fits? that remains to be seen. I wish he was paid to fit a bottom pair and then I would have no doubt he should be kept. but cap is a reality and guys that get paid 5 mill must be important parts of a winning defense. at that moment, I don't think krug helps more than he hurts.

sorry. I'm glad for him hes going to be paid... but not glad for our team that we are the ones paying

Thanks ever so much for the how to watch hockey lecture.

I never said he was a top paring D man, and I never said he was even an above average D man. He's a very good puck moving defenseman that does get in trouble in his own end. That's what happens in this league at this level. Some of these NHL forwards are pretty good at forechecking. Heck, even some of our very own Boston Bruins are.

Krug is what he is. He's not a #1 or #2. I don't care about his contract. That's between him and management and people who waste a lot of time fretting over what someone gets paid. (He's not grossly overpaid either.)

What you're seeing is exactly what you should be seeing with Krug and Brandon Carlo. They're pretty good, but not great and they'll make mistakes. And that's why they're the 2nd pairing.

That's what my uneducated hockey eyes see.
 
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rocketdan9

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Hoping the Bruins move Krug by the trade deadline

He doesn't know how to play defense, especially along the boards

Grz is the same size and is a much better all around defender.

Would Flyers bite on Simmonds for Krug ?
 

BruinsFanSince94

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Hoping the Bruins move Krug by the trade deadline

He doesn't know how to play defense, especially along the boards

Grz is the same size and is a much better all around defender.

Would Flyers bite on Simmonds for Krug ?

You’re hoping for something that isn’t going to happen. You seem to love shiny new toys. You keep calling for Cehlarik over Spooner as well. Grzelcyk and Krug aren’t even comparable players. I’m sorry but moving Krug for a forward and replacing him with grzelcyk is a brutal proposal.
 
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rocketdan9

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You’re hoping for something that isn’t going to happen. You seem to love shiny new toys. You keep calling for Cehlarik over Spooner as well. Grzelcyk and Krug aren’t even comparable players. I’m sorry but moving Krug for a forward and replacing him with grzelcyk is a brutal proposal.

Because it is correct to have Cehlarik up playing with Krejci and Debrusk. you keep tricking yourself that Spooner is a winger. Debrusk and Krejci have looked most potent when Cehlarik was up. Look at the advance stats when Cehlarik was up before going down with injuries

Yes they are not comparable....bc Krug is a liability on the defensive end. If you actually watched last nights game...he was the worst D on the ice. Like skating on the cement. Got manhandled on our end. And could not skate out with the puck.
 

WhalerTurnedBruin55

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Hoping the Bruins move Krug by the trade deadline

He doesn't know how to play defense, especially along the boards

Grz is the same size and is a much better all around defender.

Would Flyers bite on Simmonds for Krug ?
Gryz isn't ready or a suitable top 4 replacement for Krug (yet).

Either 1. Keep Krug until someone actually surpasses him. 2. Trade for someone above Krug in the depth chart, and move Krug either in that trade or a subsequent one. Krug has redeeming qualities for a player, as well as his warts. Carlo isn't quite there to makeup for Krug's deficiencies, otherwise we might not even hear about those issues. But I don't move Krug until someone has legitimately passed him in either all facets of his game, or the one he's best at. And his offensive game is still one of the best on this teams backend (on the left).

I feel this mentality is best used

I have the same mentality towards Spooner at this stage. (and to a lesser extent Krejc, but salary does play a bigger factor there)
 
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Son of Donegal

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I hesitate to make any major moves at this stage of the season. Especially Krug, who is a valued teammate and vocal leader. If the Bruins were still in pre-Thanksgiving .500 land, sure (and at the time, I was interested in moving Krug)...but now? Keep the squad together and let them work it out. Trade deadline acquisitions are probably 50/50 in terms of their positive impact.

As for Spooner on Krejci's wing...it's not an obvious choice, but Spooner has been playing harder in all zones and because of that, the line has had some success. If anything, Krejci is still fighting his way back and DeBrusk has had moments of invisibility. I am confident that they will come together as a stronger unit over time.
 

rocketdan9

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Gryz isn't ready or a suitable top 4 replacement for Krug (yet).

Either 1. Keep Krug until someone actually surpasses him. 2. Trade for someone above Krug in the depth chart, and move Krug either in that trade or a subsequent one. Krug has redeeming qualities for a player, as well as his warts. Carlo isn't quite there to makeup for Krug's deficiencies, otherwise we might not even hear about those issues. But I don't move Krug until someone has legitimately passed him in either all facets of his game, or the one he's best at. And his offensive game is still one of the best on this teams backend (on the left).

I feel this mentality is best used

I have the same mentality towards Spooner at this stage. (and to a lesser extent Krejc, but salary does play a bigger factor there)

I agree...but at this point I rather try Grz at top 4 and bring up Zboril or Lauzon

because they can't be worst on the defensive end than Krug

Grz may not put up the same stats as Krug but positive things happen when he is on the ice.

Krug + heated game = inability to win battles on our own end....causes everyone else on the team to work harder to try to get the puck out.
 

Alberta_OReilly_Fan

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And yet, he’s a positive player 5v5. He helps more than he hurts.

plus minus stat is best used in context. if a team is minus 40 but their leading player is plus 20... wow

if a team is plus 70 but their best player is only plus 10... why?

the number in a vacuum is rather useless as everyone says

but use the eye test... watch the game... if half the players are solid and a big plus but a couple other players seam to be having goals against and look shakey... then plus minus becomes a yellow canary in the coal mine

it begs for caution. its a warning sign of danger

krug has looked ok when his team helps him. if he is allowed to focus on easier assignments his production can help.

i dont think many people say he cant help if hes sheltered.

what the worry is... when under preasure... when asked to step up... krug fails.

couple this limitation with a healthy paycheck and its time to call houston

but today hes had a very good week. 2 weeks even. when hes not struggling hes ok
 

BruinsFanSince94

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I agree...but at this point I rather try Grz at top 4 and bring up Zboril or Lauzon

because they can't be worst on the defensive end than Krug

So you want to take the best offensive defenseman on the team and ship him off for who knows what. Slide Grzelcyk into his spot (someone with 24 career NHL games and has been playing 15 minutes a night) and bring up one of our two rookie defenseman with 15-20 total professional games b/c you think they "can't be worse on the defensive end than Krug"? Bawahahahahahahahahaha :laugh:

Grz may not put up the same stats as Krug but positive things happen when he is on the ice.

24 NHL games playing around 15:40 average a night. He plays 3rd pairing for a reason. He doesn't put up the offensive stats Krug does, and sliding him up could very well turn into a situation like McQuaid/Miller playing top 4 minutes...Ugly. But it all goes back to the "shiny new toy" syndrome you evidently have.

Krug + heated game = inability to win battles on our own end....causes everyone else on the team to work harder to try to get the puck out.

That's false, but whatever BS narratives help try and argue your point.
 
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BruinsFanSince94

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Let's take a look at how Torey Krug compares to the other defenseman on the team. I won't include McQuaid or Postma, since they haven't even played 10 games yet. I'll be looking at 5v5 statistics, since it's the most played situation.

Torey Krug:
549.68 minutes (36 GP) = 15.27 Average TOI
+/- = +7
GF/60 = 2.95
GA/60 = 2.18
oiSV% = .931


Brandon Carlo:
608.02 minutes (40 GP) = 15.20 Average TOI
+/- = +5
GF/60 = 2.66
GA/60 = 2.17
oiSV% = .930


Charlie McAvoy:
743.17 minutes (40 GP) = 18.58 Average TOI
+/- = +17
GF/60 = 2.74
GA/60 = 1.37
oiSV% = .947

Zdeno Chara:
733.52 minutes (40 GP) = 18.34 Average TOI
+/- = +15
GF/60 = 2.70
GA/60 = 1.47
oiSV% = .945



Matt Grzelcyk:

293.52 minutes (22 GP) = 13.34 Average TOI
+/- = +14
GF/60 = 4.09
GA/60 = 1.23
oiSV% = .945



Kevan Miller:

598.63 minutes (38 GP) = 12.47 Average TOI
+/- = +5
GF/60 = 2.31
GA/60 = 1.80
oiSV% = .927


People complaining about Krug's defensive play need to stop. He's right there with all the other defenseman on the team in every statistic. Torey Krug is not great in his own end. Even the biggest Krug supporter should agree with that. He's not the defensive black-hole some make him out to be either. He's average there. There's nothing wrong with that when he gives you the offense he does.

If you want to trade Krug, fine! Even as a big Krug guy, I'd have no issue if the Bruins moved him in a trade. That said, the B's should only be dealing him if they're getting an upgrade at the LHD position. Suggesting to trade Krug for a forward, for example, is just plain stupid. You have zero replacements for him. No, Matt Grzelcyk is not there yet (despite the solid numbers. He's playing 3rd pairing. 24 NHL games is not a large enough sample size to ship out a player who's proven himself in 350+ NHL games). No, there isn't anyone in the minors pushing for a spot. No, slotting Grzelcyk up and subbing in Adam McQuaid does not make the team stronger.
 
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00BW

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Let's take a look at how Torey Krug compares to the other defenseman on the team. I won't include McQuaid or Postma, since they haven't even played 10 games yet. I'll be looking at 5v5 statistics, since it's the most played situation.

Torey Krug:
549.68 minutes (38 GP) = 15.27 Average TOI
+/- = +7
GF/60 = 2.95
GA/60 = 2.18
oiSV% = .931


Brandon Carlo:
608.02 minutes (40 GP) = 15.20 Average TOI
+/- = +5
GF/60 = 2.66
GA/60 = 2.17
oiSV% = .930


Charlie McAvoy:
743.17 minutes (40 GP) = 18.58 Average TOI
+/- = +17
GF/60 = 2.74
GA/60 = 1.37
oiSV% = .947

Zdeno Chara:
733.52 minutes (40 GP) = 18.34 Average TOI
+/- = +15
GF/60 = 2.70
GA/60 = 1.47
oiSV% = .945



Matt Grzelcyk:

293.52 minutes (22 GP) = 13.34 Average TOI
+/- = +14
GF/60 = 4.09
GA/60 = 1.23
oiSV% = .945



Kevan Miller:

598.63 minutes (38 GP) = 12.47 Average TOI
+/- = +5
GF/60 = 2.31
GA/60 = 1.80
oiSV% = .927


People complaining about Krug's defensive play need to stop. He's right there with all the other defenseman on the team in every statistic. Torey Krug is not great in his own end. Even the biggest Krug supporter should agree with that. He's not the defensive black-hole some make him out to be either. He's average there. There's nothing wrong with that when he gives you the offense he does.

If you want to trade Krug, fine! Even as a big Krug guy, I'd have no issue if the Bruins moved him in a trade. That said, the B's should only be dealing him if they're getting an upgrade at the LHD position. Suggesting to trade Krug for a forward, for example, is just plain stupid. You have zero replacements for him. No, Matt Grzelcyk is not there yet (despite the solid numbers. He's playing 3rd pairing. 24 NHL games is not a large enough sample size to ship out a player who's proven himself in 350+ NHL games). No, there isn't anyone in the minors pushing for a spot. No, slotting Grzelcyk up and subbing in Adam McQuaid does not make the team stronger.

Nice summary, thanks.

McAvoy justifying the hype as we know those numbers are against the top competition.

Grzelcyk is playing against the weakest competition but is giving Sergachev a run for best #6 D in the league. He doesn't have the points but his play on ice is fueling his teammates points.

Krug is playing well against middle pair competition but it's nothing special.

I agree you can trade Krug as he is not untouchable but why mess with what is working? And you would have to get something better in return. It makes no sense.
 

rocketdan9

Registered User
Feb 5, 2009
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Torey Krug:
549.68 minutes (38 GP) = 15.27 Average TOI
+/- = +7
GF/60 = 2.95
GA/60 = 2.18
oiSV% = .931


vs

Matt Grzelcyk:

293.52 minutes (22 GP) = 13.34 Average TOI
+/- = +14
GF/60 = 4.09
GA/60 = 1.23
oiSV% = .945

This is what I'm talking about...
 
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