Confirmed with Link: [TOR/STL] Leafs trade Carl Gunnarsson and 94th pick for Roman Polak - PT II

HoweHullOrr

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Oct 3, 2013
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Could we not have acquired Polak for something else? Polak replacing Franson would have been perfect but now who plays on the top pairing? There is nobody in our organization that can do that right now.

My guess is that there is another move pending for a defender.

I think Polak will be paired with either Gardiner or Reilly so they have a anchor , stay-at-home defender playing with one of young PMD, and there will be a new (UFA) defender brought in to play alongside Phaneuf.
 
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ULF_55

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It's worrying that Blues fans are saying Polak really struggles breaking out of his own zone considering how ****ing bad we are for getting hemmed in for minutes at a time.

Our issue has never really been skating the puck out or first passes, it's been getting the puck away from the bad guys and horribly botched clearing attempts. If he can help with that, it's a plus.


First pass is critical in Carlyle's system.

Forwards are breaking to center ice as soon as they think the Leafs might get the puck.

How many icings this year from stretch passes?

Now if Carlyle is implementing a new system where everyone plays defense that would help cover up for someone who isn't very good moving the puck.
 

Commander Clueless

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One thing I'll agree with Simmons is a very immobile defense just got less mobile. Regardless of what Shanahan says about his skating ability, I don't buy it. Carlyle is STILL the damn GM of this team... Awful. One step forward and two steps back always with this franchise. I hope this means Gleason will be bought out. I do not care how many shots he blocks. Moving the puck out of your zone and keeping it out is more important. Not a fan of this move especially what we gave up. I hope Gardiner plays 25 a night now. He better.

You're fully entitled to disagree with Shanahan and the Blues fans on this site in terms of Polak's skating ability if you wish, but let's not pretend like Gunnarsson was blazing fast either. He is a good skater, not great.

I like Gunnar a lot, but the only advantage he has over Polak in terms of mobility is his passing.

Also, I'm not sure how the Leafs are "very immobile" on defense with Gardiner and Rielly back there. That's a lot of mobility. The only slow guy they have is Franson, and we've yet to see if he will be back.

Despite what Simmons says, the Leafs problem on defense is not mobility - it's the ability to strip the puck from the opposition and to clear the crease. Defensive awareness is not a selling point with the blueline group.
 

sommervr

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Commiserating with my fellow leaf fans who understand how bad a deal this is. Bye Gunner you are going to kill it in STL. At least he can watch the coming train wreck from afar.

Anyone who thinks this is a good move start educating yourself. You are part of the problem and are giving cover to Nonis and his merry band of willful idiots.
 

Commander Clueless

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[TOR/STL] Leafs trade Carl Gunnarsson and 94th pick for Roman Polak II

First pass is critical in Carlyle's system.

Forwards are breaking to center ice as soon as they think the Leafs might get the puck.

How many icings this year from stretch passes?

Now if Carlyle is implementing a new system where everyone plays defense that would help cover up for someone who isn't very good moving the puck.

Carlyle's system relying on the first pass only works if the Leafs actually have the puck. The ability to knock the opponent off the puck was something we lacked horribly and it needs to improve for that system to work, or we need an adjustment from Randy to cover for that problem.
 

Commander Clueless

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Commiserating with my fellow leaf fans who understand how bad a deal this is. Bye Gunner you are going to kill it in STL. At least he can watch the coming train wreck from afar.

Anyone who thinks this is a good move start educating yourself. You are part of the problem and are giving cover to Nonis and his merry band of willful idiots.

Thinking this is a bad deal and not liking Gunnarsson leaving is fully your choice. I share some of the sentiment, although I understand why Nonis did it from a positional perspectve.

But calling fans part of the problem is ludicrous. Fans should educate themselves? No offense, but on what, your opinion? Is there a book for that?
 

KuleminFan41

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People keep on moaning about our "top pairing guy", people just don't get it. Gunnarsson who is a good player is a top pairing guy...on one of the worst defensive teams in the league. It's the same people who moan about Dion not being a #1 defensemen because in fact the Leafs are one of the worst defensive teams. It baffles me that people are so hypocritical on the matter.
 

ULF_55

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I saw that yesterday morning and had a premonition he'd get traded

People question why players want a NTC?

Gunnarsson is gone because he was the best defender available not named Phaneuf.

St. Loius was in the drivers seat and who would they think could play defense for them between Franson, Gleason, Gunnarsson?

Jackman is 33 years old, could easily see Gunnarsson in their top 4, playing with a smarter partner than he had in Toronto.
 

ULF_55

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People keep on moaning about our "top pairing guy", people just don't get it. Gunnarsson who is a good player is a top pairing guy...on one of the worst defensive teams in the league. It's the same people who moan about Dion not being a #1 defensemen because in fact the Leafs are one of the worst defensive teams. It baffles me that people are so hypocritical on the matter.

I'm okay with Polak, but we know he isn't a 1st. pairing defender.

You would have to believe he was brought in for the 2nd. or third pairing, and either the Leafs audition players (Gardiner/Rielly/Granberg) with Phaneuf or they are making a move in free agency.

What role is Phaneuf going to play, offensive or defensive? Usually you don't pay defensive d-men $7 per season, and if anyone thought Gunnarsson was soft what can they believe about Gardiner the toothpick?

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20142TORDADALL&sort=hits&viewName=rtssPlayerStats
 

Celly Hard

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I really dont mind this trade. Gunner was good defensively, but he just was not mean enough. I like what Polak brings to the table, love the fact that he's a big hitting tough speedster.

When I first heard Gunner for Polak I immediately thought he was an older player, 32 + dont know why :|
 

FerrisRox

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I hope he's like a Dmitri Yushkevich. I'll love the trade! What I didn't like was we had to give up a pick and also pick up some of Gunnars tab....wtf?

Yushkevich was tough as hell, hit everything, played with a ton of snarl and bite in his game.

None of those things describe Polak.

Polak's game is all about positioning, using his stick well, a great first step and thinking the game right. There is literally no comparison between him and Dmitri Yushkevich. Completely different players.
 

Warden of the North

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People question why players want a NTC?

Gunnarsson is gone because he was the best defender available not named Phaneuf.

St. Loius was in the drivers seat and who would they think could play defense for them between Franson, Gleason, Gunnarsson?

Jackman is 33 years old, could easily see Gunnarsson in their top 4, playing with a smarter partner than he had in Toronto.

I dont think we'd of re-signed him after his current contract anyways. I dont mind the trade, although the pick bothers me a bit. In truth it bothers me more then it should, really.
 

Trapper

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People keep on moaning about our "top pairing guy", people just don't get it. Gunnarsson who is a good player is a top pairing guy...on one of the worst defensive teams in the league. It's the same people who moan about Dion not being a #1 defensemen because in fact the Leafs are one of the worst defensive teams. It baffles me that people are so hypocritical on the matter.

Trouble is I don't remember Dion playing well with anyone but Gunnarsson.
Unless I'm missing someone?
 

socko

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Carlyle's system relying on the first pass only works if the Leafs actually have the puck. The ability to knock the opponent off the puck was something we lacked horribly and it needs to improve for that system to work, or we need an adjustment from Randy to cover for that problem.

What part of the Blues fans saying Polak isn't nasty and doesn't hit that hard or clear the front of the net have you missed? Eric Daze was big too.
 

Tyler Biggs*

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Adding Polak addresses the Leafs need for another right handed shooting d-man (Franson is the only other one on the roster) and improves the toughness on the back end as well. Gunnarsson had been a pretty steady d-man for the Leafs, but the roster needs a shake-up.
 

ULF_55

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I dont think we'd of re-signed him after his current contract anyways. I dont mind the trade, although the pick bothers me a bit. In truth it bothers me more then it should, really.

The pick is important!

What round did they get Gunnarsson in?

Did St. Louis throw in a worthless 5th. rounder, 6th. rounder, 7th.?

Polak and Gunnarsson are the same age, and one has played his career at a lower level (pairing) in St. Louis, whereas the other top pairing fishbowl.

Again, I like the idea of replacing Franson with a defender with half a brain.
 

Celly Hard

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Typical leafs fans, bashing a player before he even suits up for a game LOLL. Give the guy a chance, if he blows, by all means boo your hearts out.

On a side note, that tweet from Gunner just killed me :puppy:
 

Miller91

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Jan 2, 2009
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This trade moves us backwards. While I fully thought (and still think) we need to bring in a new defense - Gunnarsson was by far our most steady defenseman. I haven;t seen much of Polak but his stats and advanced stats have me more than worried.

How does someone playing on the Blues register only a +3? Gunnarsson was a +12 last year. How does someone playing on the Blues register such a bad GF% (45.7%) - Gunnarsson was a 53.1%.

Neither of them own a very good Corsi (defensive-defenders, that should be obvious). Additionally Polak takes more than double the amount of penalties as Gunnarsson - something we can't afford giving our atrocious penalty killing.

Trading for a defenseman made sense - trading Gunnarsson for Polak simply doesn't.

I have ZERO faith in Nonis and the rest of the Front Office to make any critical decisions - and this just proves my point.
 

Mess

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People keep on moaning about our "top pairing guy", people just don't get it. Gunnarsson who is a good player is a top pairing guy...on one of the worst defensive teams in the league. It's the same people who moan about Dion not being a #1 defensemen because in fact the Leafs are one of the worst defensive teams. It baffles me that people are so hypocritical on the matter.

I don't think anyone is bemoaning the fact that Gunnarsson was a #1 pairing defender on the Leafs and is now lost. Most would say Gunnarsson was forced to play on the top pairing which was above his pay grade and abilities and only spoke to how weak the Leafs defense core was because of that situation. Being 5th worst in goals against and 30th in shots against only confirms that.

However Nonis trading Gunnarsson and bringing in a player he describes as "a physical #4/5 defender" doesn't address the top pairing either, only attempts to fix another team weakness.

This was simply Nonis trying to address Leafs lack of physicality on the backend and trying to bring in a big physical depth defender. He is replacing the role Mark Fraser formerly played essentially, only with a much better skater and mobility. Polak is not replacing Gunnarsson but rather Fraser, but it cost the Leafs their best +/- defensive dman to accomplish that. Ideally Gunnarsson would simply have been moved down the depth chart when a true top pairing Dman was acquired.
 

HonestHockey*

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Season starts:

Phaneuf - trade
Franson-Gleason
Rielly-Polak
 

Trapper

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Nov 21, 2013
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This trade moves us backwards. While I fully thought (and still think) we need to bring in a new defense - Gunnarsson was by far our most steady defenseman. I haven;t seen much of Polak but his stats and advanced stats have me more than worried.

How does someone playing on the Blues register only a +3? Gunnarsson was a +12 last year. How does someone playing on the Blues register such a bad GF% (45.7%) - Gunnarsson was a 53.1%.

Neither of them own a very good Corsi (defensive-defenders, that should be obvious). Additionally Polak takes more than double the amount of penalties as Gunnarsson - something we can't afford giving our atrocious penalty killing.

Trading for a defenseman made sense - trading Gunnarsson for Polak simply doesn't.

I have ZERO faith in Nonis and the rest of the Front Office to make any critical decisions - and this just proves my point.

Adding Polak to Gunnarsson would make more sense. We don't add we replace. What happens if Gardiner/Phaneuf is not a fit? You took away the only proven player able to help Phaneuf. You think he gets trashed now for not being a no. 1. Gonna be fun.
 

ULF_55

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I don't think anyone is bemoaning the fact that Gunnarsson was a #1 pairing defender on the Leafs and is now lost. Most would say Gunnarsson was forced to play on the top pairing which was above his pay grade and abilities and only spoke to how weak the Leafs defense core was because of that situation. Being 5th worst in goals against and 30th in shots against only confirms that.

However Nonis trading Gunnarsson and bringing in a player he describes as "a physical #4/5 defender" doesn't address the top pairing either, only attempts to fix another team weakness.

This was simply Nonis trying to address Leafs lack of physicality on the backend and trying to bring in a big physical depth defender. He is replacing the role Mark Fraser formerly played essentially, only with a much better skater and mobility. Polak is not replacing Gunnarsson but rather Fraser, but it cost the Leafs their best +/- defensive dman to accomplish that. Ideally Gunnarsson would simply have been moved down the depth chart when a true top pairing Dman was acquired.

Nonis must have a player lined up to be signed July 1st., and that player is likely a better Gunnarsson.

Phaneuf playing:

Defensive d-man:
Phaneuf - Rielly

Offensive d-man
Phaneuf - ????
 

Miller91

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Jan 2, 2009
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Nonis must have a player lined up to be signed July 1st., and that player is likely a better Gunnarsson.

You have a lot of faith in someone who has done very little in the form of trades, and what UFA signings he has made have been atrocious. That player is going to be Dan Boyle and at this point in his career - Boyle is not an upgrade on pretty much anyone.

EDIT: Also, if it is Dan Boyle - we will have acquired two defensemen from two of the top teams in the West - the two defensemen who own their teams WORST GF%. I am pretty sure our trouble is keeping goals out of the net, not sure what either of those players will bring to that need.
 

PuckMagi

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The more I think about this trade... the more awesome I think it is for the Leafs.

And lol at people complaining about the 4th rounder... I don't think that matters at all.
 

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